External Frame Packs - Are they right for you?

[Shaker]

I am going to outline some reasons that a person might want to consider using an external frame pack rather than the ever-popular internal frames or frameless packs. Keep in mind that the gear that you pick should be gear that suits your individual needs and purposes rather than simply being something someone recommended or because everyone else is using it. What works well for some, or even for many, might not suit your particular needs.

As a person with Parkinson's disease, I have a variety of issues that I have to deal with that affects my gear choices. With regard to pack choices, they include lower back pain due to increased muscle tension; and excessive sweating (which is probably related to the medicine that I have to take). The problem with the excessive sweating is that I have to drink more water, which means I have to carry more water.

Beyond the issues caused by my disease, I am also a big guy - standing 6'2", 205 lbs, with broad shoulders and a 22" torso. As such, I need bigger clothes, bigger sleeping pads, bigger sleeping bags or quilts, etc. Consequently, the things that I pack tend to weigh more than an average person's gear and take up more space. Which means that I need a slightly bigger pack with a higher weight carrying capacity to carry the extra weight plus extra water so that I don't dehydrate. And my pack needs to carry the weight well, transferring most of the weight to my hips and lower body rather than my back.

I tried an internal frame pack, but found that it wasn't very comfortable and was extremely hot on my back. Eventually I ended up with a Kelty Trekker 65 external frame and am pretty satisfied. After stripping it down (removed the top bar, the inside "stay-open" bar, etc.), the empty pack weight is now down to 4lb. 9oz. - which is comparable to some of the bigger internal frame packs. It has plenty of room for my larger gear and effectively transfers almost all of the weight to my hips, which really saves my lower back. The mesh on the frame allows the pack to stay about 1" off of my back allowing air to circulate and keeping me cooler.

While it isn't the "latest and greatest" thing in backpacks, my external frame serves me well and suits my needs. So, if you're looking for a pack that can comfortably carry a wide range of loads, is flexible, keeps your back as cool as possible, and effectively transfers weight to your hips - you might want to give the external frame packs a try.

Shaker

[trailmercury]

I use an external frame pack, the Zpacks Arc Haul...I love it!

[Zalman]

Couldn't agree more, personally. I've never been comfortable with an internal frame (or worse, frameless). The theory of splitting the load between shoulders and hips just doesn't work for me in reality at all. I also like that external frame packs hold weight closer to the body, reducing core stress and encouraging upright walking posture. Interestingly, while I'm shorter than you are, I'm also broad -- 5'9", 195lbs, 46" chest. I wonder if skinnier folks work better with the load distribution of internal frames for some reason.

I don't use a top bar now, but there is one huge advantage to keeping it: it allows a single smooth sweeping motion to be used to don the pack, by standing in front of the pack, grabbing the top bar with a reverse grip, and just spinning it up onto the shoulder.

I had one pack that I used for a very long time (until it got stolen), which also had an extra set of welded stay bars extending from the bottom the frame, forming a V shape. This allowed the pack to stably stand on its own, a very handy feature.

Alas, all that extra frame weight led me to find other ways to create similar convenience, but no other mechanism has been quite as graceful as those integrated frame bars. Speaking of weight, there are lighter weight external frames being made nowadays, using modern materials and clever design, such as those from Seek Outside.

[Shaker]

Zalman,

The Kelty Trekker 65 has a sewn on handle at the top of the pack, so I can still lift it easily to put it on.

I love the design and style of the Seek Outside packs, but they seem to be a bit overpriced.

Shaker

[OCDave]

The NOISE... My REI Wonderland squeaked and rattled so much it became impossible to enjoy the sounds of nature. I could comfortably haul loads well over 50 llbs but, I could hear nothing but my pack while moving. I stuck with it for far too long because it was my first pack and it demonstrated I was old school. When I eventually bought my first internal frame pack, it change my hiking experience entirely.

External Frame is not for me.

[Five Tango]

I still have my old Jansport external frame pack.It's in the hall of fame along with the SVEA stove.No plans to use either but just can't let them go.Funny how that works.

[Christoph]

I'm also 6'2 and around 205. I had an old kelty santa fe 4000 that I removed the internal frame from. It fit great! BUT... it formed to my back so well, there was absolutely no room to breath. Left my back covered in sweat and.... that smell after a month or 2! I'm looking into externals as well, but once they get them on the lighter side, I'd prefer to deal with the smell (although other might disagree!).

[Gambit McCrae]

I use an external frame pack, the Zpacks Arc Haul...I love it!

I guess I use an external frame pack as well...

[Shaker]

The NOISE... My REI Wonderland squeaked and rattled so much it became impossible to enjoy the sounds of nature. I could comfortably haul loads well over 50 llbs but, I could hear nothing but my pack while moving. I stuck with it for far too long because it was my first pack and it demonstrated I was old school. When I eventually bought my first internal frame pack, it change my hiking experience entirely.

External Frame is not for me.

As I said, the most important thing is to get gear that works for you and your particular needs.

Thanks for your reply.

Shaker

[Shaker]

I'm also 6'2 and around 205. I had an old kelty santa fe 4000 that I removed the internal frame from. It fit great! BUT... it formed to my back so well, there was absolutely no room to breath. Left my back covered in sweat and.... that smell after a month or 2! I'm looking into externals as well, but once they get them on the lighter side, I'd prefer to deal with the smell (although other might disagree!).

Check out the Seek Outside external frame packs. They weigh around 2.75 lbs.

https://seekoutside.com/divide-4500-...k-olive-green/

Shaker

[Time Zone]

I am looking at the Seek Outside packs now, and find it curious that, generally, they do not include photographs of what the pack looks like on the side facing your back. Only shots of the side of the back, and the backside (facing behind you).

Anyway, I appreciate your post here. It's very easy for dispensers of UL advice to forget that not everyone is 5'8" and 150 lbs, that not everyone sleeps warm. That some people must bring medications, eyeglasses/contacts stuff, etc. I have found larger loads not to do so well even on some burly internals. The rear sags a fair bit. So externals look appealing to me in some ways.

That said, conventional wisdom is that externals do best on open trails that are fairly well-developed, and less well on trails that are rocky, rooty, overgrown, subject to blowdowns, etc. etc., and such a description characterizes trails I tend to hike.

The Kelty Trekker seems to be the archetype of the external frame pack. I know of university outdoor programs that rent ONLY such types of pack. But it is a bit perplexing to me that Kelty still does not put any pockets on their hipbelt nor any water bottle pockets within reach of the wearer. Granted, these obstacles can be overcome, but having them as part of the core design is much more efficient and effective.

So although the trails I hike don't suggest I'm a great candidate for one, and they have some shortcomings in design, they have other virtues as well, so I still would like to try one.

[Shaker]

I agree...those are two of the most annoying things about the Kelty Trekker (lack of hipbelt pockets or water bottle holsters). I would also love to know what they were thinking with the horizontal water bladder pouch on the inside.

If you watch the Seek Outside videos, they show the packs in more detail. But I also found it curious that they didn't have pictures from that angle.

Shaker

[Time Zone]

I agree...those are two of the most annoying things about the Kelty Trekker (lack of hipbelt pockets or water bottle holsters). I would also love to know what they were thinking with the horizontal water bladder pouch on the inside.
Shaker

It may be a vestigial design. I've read up on the Trekker and Tioga a lot lately, and I recall coming across a posting that claimed that there was, at one time, a bladder that fit it particularly well, maybe it was even designed for that bladder. The bladder has come and gone but the pocket dimensions remain the same.

It would not surprise me if one way that Kelty can clear a profit on these packs, at the relatively low price they sell for, is to not spend much time or money redesigning them very often. The R&D is long paid off ... why mess with it? Plus, the pack is already fairly heavy, and is competing against lighter internals of similar volume, for the most part. Adding pockets would just add weight and expense (materials, sewing, R&D), and I'm sure they don't want either the Trekker or Tioga to top the 6 lb mark. In fact, I bet they don't want to get into 5 lbs and double-digit ounces. (the Tioga is 5lb 9 oz). At some point people would say whoa, so I would not be surprised if there's some sort of self-imposed ceiling on the weight spec.

[perrymk]

I have the original Vargo titanium external frame and recently got the newer version Vargo Exo ti AR2. Its style is similar to old school external frames (I’m partial to the Camp Trails Ajustable II) but it weighs under 3 pounds and has built in hip belt pockets. I’m not thrilled with the chest strap design but it’s easily remedied.

I’m currently using a homemade external frame for my day pack that I’m pleased with. Designing a larger pack for weekend or longer trips is on my to do list.

[Cheyou]

https://sectionhiker.com/seek-outsid...ckpack-review/

[Shaker]

That makes sense - they aren't going to invest in improvements for a product that doesn't sell very well. But then again, it might sell better if they made improvements.

[OwenM]

So, if you're looking for a pack that can comfortably carry a wide range of loads, is flexible, keeps your back as cool as possible, and effectively transfers weight to your hips - you might want to give the external frame packs a try.

You can have all that with an internal frame pack, and the fact that you tried one that didn't provide those things reflects only on your pack choice.

If you want to make a good pack choice, try everything you can get your hands on that'll fit your gear. The packs I now use are newer versions of ones I originally bought after trying a huge variety of them from every major manufacturer and several smaller ones over a period of many months, and a model I originally ignored due to not liking a similar pack from the same brand. I really just tried one on to confirm that I didn't like it, and to be able to say I left no stone unturned, before buying something else. Might as well have been custom made for me...

When pack shopping, I took a big Rubbermaid tote, and loaded each pack that I liked the fit of with my actual gear to see how the straps, pockets, access to water bottles and all that stuff suited me.
And a notebook full of notes on my likes and dislikes.
I made a big deal out of it, because something you're going to wear all day, sometimes for many days on end, IS a big deal.
Now I'm afraid to even look at newer pack models that I haven't tried. Might have to start all over again!

[Shaker]

I have only owned one internal frame pack. That doesn't mean that I haven't tried them out in the store, etc. And I did say that each person should pick gear that suits their particular needs. My original post was intended to point out that external frame packs might be the right choice for SOME people - as evidenced by several responses. Your post, however, seems to take the more typical stance that external frame packs are not a good choice for anyone.

But you did bring up a good point: it is best to try out as many packs as possible before settling on one.

Thanks for your response.

Shaker

[OwenM]

Your post, however, seems to take the more typical stance that external frame packs are not a good choice for anyone.

Yeah? Maybe you should try reading it again, since it does nothing of the sort, and makes no differentiation between pack types.

And that advice was for anyone looking for a pack-'cause that's the right way to do it, even though it takes time and is a huge PITA. So often, we see people asking for, or giving, pack recommendations on the internet, as if what works for one person matters to someone else. Most reviews are based on that, too, as if fit for one person makes something "good" or "bad", when it actually means very little.

[Zalman]

I am looking at the Seek Outside packs now, and find it curious that, generally, they do not include photographs of what the pack looks like on the side facing your back. Only shots of the side of the back, and the backside (facing behind you).

In addition to the link that Cheyou posted, you can see the Seek Outside packs from a variety of angles by visiting the "EXPLORE REAL WORLD PHOTOS FROM OUR CUSTOMERS" link on the Ultralight Backpacks page.

That said, conventional wisdom is that externals do best on open trails that are fairly well-developed, and less well on trails that are rocky, rooty, overgrown, subject to blowdowns, etc. etc., and such a description characterizes trails I tend to hike.

The Seek Outside Divide that I use has a profile that is smaller than any internal frame pack I've tried with a similar carrying capacity (which is plenty of them, over the last 30 years). Conventional wisdom in this case is clearly outdated.

The Kelty Trekker seems to be the archetype of the external frame pack. I know of university outdoor programs that rent ONLY such types of pack. But it is a bit perplexing to me that Kelty still does not put any pockets on their hipbelt nor any water bottle pockets within reach of the wearer. Granted, these obstacles can be overcome, but having them as part of the core design is much more efficient and effective.

The Seek Outside designs provide optional, integrated hipbelt pockets as well of course, in addition to the voluminous side pockets favored by hikers nowadays. While the Kelty Trekker may be archtypal, it might be more useful to judge external vs internal frame packs using the most modern designs for both.