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  1. #41
    Registered User theinfamousj's Avatar
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    I choose to take the approach that most people are good people who have a sane handle on their emotions and are eager to correct any inadvertent mistakes as quickly as possible. I find that people meet my expectations.

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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4runner View Post
    Anyone have any reasonable suggestions for discouraging the burning of garbage at the evening campfire??

    I have a tough time, even with campers I know. With campers I donít know, I find it tough to convince them to pack out their garbage rather than burn it.

    Suggestions and/or links are welcome.

    Thanks- 4R
    IMHO, it depends on what kind of trash is being burned. Burning paper isn't a bad thing. Burning plastics is.
    Time is but the stream I go afishin' in.
    Thoreau

  3. #43
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    the bigger issue I think with being confrontational...or mother like...is that both of you think you are right. With issues like this there are almost always to schools of thought. I think we've seen it here....seems to me that we have some very knowledgeable folks here that probably do know which plastics to burn and when it would be ok. So...the person being the all knowing mom ...or otherwise scolding someone for burning plastic (for example) might just need to prepare to be schooled.

    One thing I learned a long time ago... a person almost never knows all there is to know about any given topic. Even an expert doesn't know it all.

    My advice....Just be careful being so sure of yourself.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by blw2 View Post
    the bigger issue I think with being confrontational...or mother like...is that both of you think you are right. With issues like this there are almost always to schools of thought. I think we've seen it here....seems to me that we have some very knowledgeable folks here that probably do know which plastics to burn and when it would be ok. So...the person being the all knowing mom ...or otherwise scolding someone for burning plastic (for example) might just need to prepare to be schooled.

    One thing I learned a long time ago... a person almost never knows all there is to know about any given topic. Even an expert doesn't know it all.

    My advice....Just be careful being so sure of yourself.
    Here's someone who sa' learned.

    No person knows all there is to know about any topic including the topic of knowing oneself.

  5. #45
    Clueless Weekender Another Kevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blw2 View Post
    the bigger issue I think with being confrontational...or mother like...is that both of you think you are right. With issues like this there are almost always to schools of thought. I think we've seen it here....seems to me that we have some very knowledgeable folks here that probably do know which plastics to burn and when it would be ok. So...the person being the all knowing mom ...or otherwise scolding someone for burning plastic (for example) might just need to prepare to be schooled.
    I don't do it in front of people other than my own group, not so much for fear of a confrontation, but rather to avoid setting an example that it's all right to burn plastic in a fire, when it's almost never all right. I think it's been once in the last ten years that all the conditions of the right material, the hot enough fire, and the privacy all came together.

    As far as seeing what others do, I tend to be confrontational very quietly. A few years ago (oh, lord, it's more like 15 years ago!), I was taking a weekend stroll in a local nature preserve (there's a nice 6-mile loop that goes around a canyon rim), and came upon an illegal fire ring and a bunch of trash. I broke up the fire ring, scattered the ashes, kicked leaves over the burnt spot, packed up the trash, and realized that a couple of drunk high-school boys were watching me from a hillside.. "Look at the garbage man!" one exclaimed, and they pitched a couple of empties at me.

    I picked them up, added them to the haul, and said, "Thanks, but there's no need to throw them down here. I can come up there and get them if you're too weak to pack them out by yourselves."

    That weekend's trash haul was weird. In addition to the usual debris, it included (from separate locations) a pink beanie, a black rubber glove, the bar cover from a chainsaw, and the debris from what was almost certainly an interrupted tryst. (A pair of boxer shorts, and a, uhm, contraceptive device and wrapper. It had been unrolled but its user had apparently not finished doing what one ordinarily does with such a thing. I can imagine someone pulling on his pants in a tearing hurry and hightailing it out of there commando. But who Does It right on a trail?)

    The things you find. Another hike, in a different wood, it was a load of spent 12-gauge shells. A little over half a kitchen garbage bag full. Made me wonder how long someone had had a trap range on state land.

    Pity the trail maintainers. Among the things they have to do is tidy up after the people who don't follow Deuteronomy 23:13. (LNT in the Bible. You can look it up.)
    I always know where I am. I'm right here.

  6. #46
    Registered User kestral's Avatar
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    Red face

    [QUOTE=peakbagger;2234389. The goal was to leave the place better than when we got there.[/QUOTE]

    My kind of hiker. When I was a weblo scout leader, way back in the day, I always told the boys to leave a place nicer than you found it, then you will always be invited back. We would have a mini competition to find the most trash prior to leaving. The boys would scour the ground for any little bit and would bring back a hubcap with the pride of big game hunters. Iíve made a lot of mistakes in my life, but this I got right.

  7. #47
    Registered User theinfamousj's Avatar
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    Yikes. Y'all mothers were authoritarian I guess. Mine and the one I model myself after guided me when I made mistakes and helped me rectify them. Confrontational isn't a word I put with mothering.

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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by kestral View Post
    My kind of hiker. When I was a weblo scout leader, way back in the day, I always told the boys to leave a place nicer than you found it, then you will always be invited back. We would have a mini competition to find the most trash prior to leaving. The boys would scour the ground for any little bit and would bring back a hubcap with the pride of big game hunters. I’ve made a lot of mistakes in my life, but this I got right.
    Still telling the boys that (I was a Boy Scout leader from 2010 until 2017). We would sometimes drop a quarter on the ground somewhere in the campsite before cleanup, and see if anybody found it.
    Time is but the stream I go afishin' in.
    Thoreau

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Kevin View Post
    As far as seeing what others do, I tend to be confrontational very quietly. A few years ago (oh, lord, it's more like 15 years ago!), I was taking a weekend stroll in a local nature preserve (there's a nice 6-mile loop that goes around a canyon rim), and came upon an illegal fire ring and a bunch of trash. I broke up the fire ring, scattered the ashes, kicked leaves over the burnt spot, packed up the trash, and realized that a couple of drunk high-school boys were watching me from a hillside.. "Look at the garbage man!" one exclaimed, and they pitched a couple of empties at me.
    That couldn't be the same local preserve where they have to rescue someone at least once or twice a year (and occasionally the rescue becomes a recovery), most of whom probably fall into the same category as the boys you mention as the terrain isn't really that bad as long as you follow the trails and use appropriate cautions like not being drunk near the edge of a canyon, could it?

    Quote Originally Posted by perdidochas View Post
    Still telling the boys that (I was a Boy Scout leader from 2010 until 2017). We would sometimes drop a quarter on the ground somewhere in the campsite before cleanup, and see if anybody found it.
    Never thought of that but will have to keep it in mind

  10. #50
    Clueless Weekender Another Kevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyGr View Post
    That couldn't be the same local preserve where they have to rescue someone at least once or twice a year (and occasionally the rescue becomes a recovery), most of whom probably fall into the same category as the boys you mention as the terrain isn't really that bad as long as you follow the trails and use appropriate cautions like not being drunk near the edge of a canyon, could it?
    I can think of several places that meet your description. Yes, this was one of them. It isn't Kaaterskill Falls (which is what I think you may be referring to). Plotter Kill is much smaller and less well known, but does indeed have frequent rescues and terrain that's not that bad if you're not stupid.

    https://dailygazette.com/article/201...-kill-preserve was the latest round of stupidity that I heard about. There was a recovery last April, but that was an apparent suicide.

    But there are other sensible cautions, like don't ride ATVs illegally on a powerline cut that goes over a cliff: https://www.firehouse.com/home/news/...r-car-accident

    Don't go rock scrambling in icy conditions without either a belay or any traction gear: https://www.timesunion.com/news/arti...e-12513652.php

    And at least once accident that is really not well explained: https://dailygazette.com/article/201...tter-kill-fall

    And there's nearly a weekly rescue in summer of someone who's gotten 'lost' (and is usually found on a blazed trail).

    The big thing with it is that it's right by town. People don't realize that it's a preserve, not a park, and go in expecting to find nice paved trails, handrails, and the like - and find conditions that any hiker would find typical, including a couple of trails that aren't technical, but need surefootedness (and traction gear if it's icy.) So you get people trying to scramble ledges wearing flip-flops, stuff like that.

    The slide where the ATV riders overturned is one of my favorite places for practicing self-arrest. The runout is pretty safe, and I can take half a dozen falls between the rim and the stream. (Haven't done that yet this winter, but after the weather that's forecast for the upcoming weekend, there should be enough ice to give it a try.)
    I always know where I am. I'm right here.

  11. #51
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    In 2002 a friend and I started at the south end of SNP and headed south, we were well ahead of the bubble by several weeks. We usually had the shelters to ourselves during the week and occasionally shared with a weekender or two at best on a weekend. It was cold out and we tended to burn fires and clean up the sites in the evening. Many of the fire pits would have large unburnt logs filling up the ring and plenty of trash and foil. We would usually clean out the ring, reset the stones if needed and then get a good fire going and burn the trash in the pit unless it was obviously something like PVC or old fuel cannisters (found more than few propane and butane canisters in the firepits). We usually kept the fire going for a couple of hours until the large log pieces were burnt and the trash was gone. In the AM I would rake out the coals and grab the foil I could find and make sure the fire was out. The goal was to leave the place better than when we got there.
    Quote Originally Posted by kestral View Post
    My kind of hiker. When I was a weblo scout leader, way back in the day, I always told the boys to leave a place nicer than you found it, then you will always be invited back. We would have a mini competition to find the most trash prior to leaving. The boys would scour the ground for any little bit and would bring back a hubcap with the pride of big game hunters. Iíve made a lot of mistakes in my life, but this I got right.
    This is what we taught scouts, at least years ago - leave the camp/shelter (and trail) better than you found it. Sweep the shelter out, clean up the fire pit, put up a small stock of firewood for the next hikers who arrive, and police the general area. We also stressed behaving respectfully both on the trail and in towns. Nothing gives hikers in general a bad name more than disrespectful/impolite behavior in trail towns.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Kevin View Post
    I
    That weekend's trash haul was weird. In addition to the usual debris, it included (from separate locations) a pink beanie, a black rubber glove, the bar cover from a chainsaw, and the debris from what was almost certainly an interrupted tryst. (A pair of boxer shorts, and a, uhm, contraceptive device and wrapper. It had been unrolled but its user had apparently not finished doing what one ordinarily does with such a thing. I can imagine someone pulling on his pants in a tearing hurry and hightailing it out of there commando. But who Does It right on a trail?)
    the most important question is perhaps still unanswered- is it safe to burn used "contraceptive devices" in a campfire?

    i guess it depends on whether its latex, natural or polyurethane.

  13. #53
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    Contraceptive Rubbers decay in UV light quite easily.
    Any contents are biodegradeable, too.

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    I run into the biodegradable "theory" all the time when poorly educated folks decide to dump stuff along the trails and at campgrounds. The same flawed theory applies to toilet paper. Unfortunately trash and garbage also breeds more trash and garbage.

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    Everything is biodegradeable.
    Only difference is rate

    Some things are a few months
    Some may be 100,000 years
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 01-19-2019 at 07:24.

  16. #56
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    I'm with you 100%.
    I'm also with others suggesting to leave a place cleaner than it had been before.

    Obviously my joke in answering tdoczy didn't come thru...

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo L. View Post
    Contraceptive Rubbers decay in UV light quite easily.
    Any contents are biodegradeable, too.
    so you're saying this would be best discussed in the throwing garbage in the woods thread, not the burning garbage in the fire thread?

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo L. View Post
    Contraceptive Rubbers decay in UV light quite easily.
    Any contents are biodegradeable, too.
    or are you suggesting melting them with my steripen??

    that would need to be a whole new thread i think.

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