Ignoring the Shelters

[Huntmog]

This thread is taking a turn. This is literally all about personal preference. There's a difference in saying "i don't personally like shelters for xyz reason, what about you?" And saying people only sleep in shelters out of fear./they must have the wrong gear. Most shelter dwellers do so selectively. I.e. during bad weather or if its empty etc.

I too have slept in a tent in the rain, even during Matthew, and it was fine. However, given the choice i personally prefer a shelter. I can walk around, i cam spread wet gear out much more, i can have space etc.

If you dont like it, more power to you. We all hike for personal enjoyment. However you find that without impacting others is your prerogative. And mine is mine.

[Obiwan]

I seldom sleep in a shelter unless it is required

[FrogLevel]

I never sleep in shelters but often pitch a tent nearby. I like having a table and a place to organize in the morning if its raining. When passing one I always stop in and sign the register while taking a break.

[TexasBob]

Geepers what in the world do the poor souls do on trails without shelters during those dreadful thundersterms? I guess they just sleep it out in collapsed tents everywhere.

3500 trail miles, 1 collapsed tent due to wind...Ill take my chances. I have many times arrived to an empty shelter location in the rain and set my tent up. I sleep as well in my tent as I do at home and personally love nothing more then the sound of rain hitting my tent. So I cant wait to have it set up during rain. Rain is rain, its all wet. Heavy rain or light rain ill be over here in my tent.

Guess this means I can have your spot in the shelter when it's raining cats and dogs.

[rickb]

Well from the looks at the list of people killed you you don't have to worry about getting murdered on or near the AT if you're older then your twenties

Not sure I would use the word “worry” but rather consider those factors/commonalities that have lead to such tragic ends in the past.

Age might be a factor, to be sure.

In all but one case on and along the Trail where the killer was found, there was either sexual violence, or in the Polsom case the kidnapping of a female companion, or a hate crime perpetrated agains two women. Might the victims’ age have been important to the evil solitary men who committed these crimes in that context? Possibly.

Another factor might be that when a young person is on the Trail for a while, they really feel like they own the environment (and shelters in particular) and conclude that a shelter on the AT really is as safe as their home in middle class suburbia.

This was most certainly my thinking when a local (locals ?) joined me at a shelter I thought I had to myself, who not only brandished a revolver, but relished in the fun of dry firing in all directions. No way was I going to push on — the shelter was mine, and besides, I was one to accept how people from different cultures (they were southern boys!) did things different. I rolled over and slept well.

Turned out fine. But probably not how I would react today if me and my wife ever encounter someone at a shelter that makes on of us uncomfortable.

They are are definitely not the safest place on the AT.

Of cousre shelters in the NOBO bubble make for a far different experience than they might be on a raw December day.

[scope]

I'm an introvert so I don't mind at all camping along the trail somewhere by myself, but I do like people, and like being around people. Sometimes I'd like a little conversation even for just a little bit, or even just an exchange of pleasantries. Sometimes I get more one-way talk than I bargained for, its all good. Its also convenient to have a flat space to sit and cook. I hang, so I'm never sleeping in a shelter, and never really in it, just around it.

I just can't imagine being in the rain and saying to myself, "oh, here's a good wet spot to plop down my tent". Seems to me, taking a light tarp ought to be a necessary piece of gear for all, not just hangers. A way to get out of the rain for a bit, even if just for lunch or whatever, but especially when trying to setup your camp. Easy for a hanger to do. And speaking of hanging, its a lot easier to pass by shelters and camp where you end up stopping, too, in a hammock setup.

[Five Tango]

Not sure I would use the word “worry” but rather consider those factors/commonalities that have lead to such tragic ends in the past.

Age might be a factor, to be sure.

In all but one case on and along the Trail where the killer was found, there was either sexual violence, or in the Polsom case the kidnapping of a female companion, or a hate crime perpetrated agains two women. Might the victims’ age have been important to the evil solitary men who committed these crimes in that context? Possibly.

Another factor might be that when a young person is on the Trail for a while, they really feel like they own the environment (and shelters in particular) and conclude that a shelter on the AT really is as safe as their home in middle class suburbia.

This was most certainly my thinking when a local (locals ?) joined me at a shelter I thought I had to myself, who not only brandished a revolver, but relished in the fun of dry firing in all directions. No way was I going to push on — the shelter was mine, and besides, I was one to accept how people from different cultures (they were southern boys!) did things different. I rolled over and slept well.

Turned out fine. But probably not how I would react today if me and my wife ever encounter someone at a shelter that makes on of us uncomfortable.

They are are definitely not the safest place on the AT.

Of cousre shelters in the NOBO bubble make for a far different experience than they might be on a raw December day.

In defense of other Southern Boyz I would like to point out that my father,a veteran of WW2,instructed my brother and me
quite seriously in gun safety.We were taught not to draw or point a firearm unless we intended to kill something or someone.Seriously,it's more than just an issue of etiquette and displaying a firearm is really in poor taste.

I would not have spent the night with some nut or nuts who were brandishing firearms but that's just me.Glad it turned out ok for you.

[stephanD]

I guess I'm a lot more selectitve about where I camp then some of you. I'm also convinced that those who wander off the trail and into the brush to camp are much more likely to encounter Lyme infected ticks then those who stay on the trail and camp in well trodden areas clear of vegetation.

Stealth camping is great for catching Lyme....

[Dogwood]

I just replied to littlerocks yellow springs thread about ignoring shelter sites which got me to thinking. A lot of folks wish the shelters were not there. But they are and always will be.

So on both my LDH's this year, I more or less excluded the shelters as nightly stops and chose camp sites that made sense with my day. The end result was more MPD, less annoyance of the cliental at shelters and overall I had a real great experience with that mentality. I would make sure that before I stopped I would have both smart water bottles filled up, and as well I carried a 2 liter sawyer bladder so I could fill that up if water was a couple miles prior to the tent site and then I had a full refill for the AM before leaving camp.

I also am now on the mindset of - If I am carrying this tent I am gunna use it every chance that I legally can. Which is another reason for the above mentality.

I know from personal experience that people use the shelter sites out of fear. Knowing that they probably will not be alone, there will be water there, whatever reason. But if people can break from that and dry camp, or use tenting sites - it may benefit them.

Thoughts? Can others relate?

Sure can relate. Drew Smith did a nice piece on this topic...for those interested in widening their skills with less dependence on shelters and CS's requiring water immediately at hand discussing the positives of dry camps.
https://www.trailgroove.com/issue29.html?autoflip=107

[Durunner]

I'm a hammock hanger. I'd say I'm about 50/50. The only time I've actually stayed in shelters itself were recent trips. I actually hung my hammock in a shelter after I was caught in a downpour. It was great, so the next trip, when I figured I'm spending the night alone, I did the same. Other than that, I just go whatever planned mileage I think I can do that day and either camp in a campsite alone or by a shelter. I often go pretty off season and during the week, so frequently have shelters to myself. Even then, I'll usually do all my tasks at the shelter and leave my gear there, but hang and sleep nearby.

[tdoczi]

This thread is taking a turn. This is literally all about personal preference. There's a difference in saying "i don't personally like shelters for xyz reason, what about you?" And saying people only sleep in shelters out of fear./they must have the wrong gear. Most shelter dwellers do so selectively. I.e. during bad weather or if its empty etc.

I too have slept in a tent in the rain, even during Matthew, and it was fine. However, given the choice i personally prefer a shelter. I can walk around, i cam spread wet gear out much more, i can have space etc.

If you dont like it, more power to you. We all hike for personal enjoyment. However you find that without impacting others is your prerogative. And mine is mine.

this topic is one of a small handful that comes up regularly on here where one side can't seem to discuss it, or at times even just let others discuss it, without making thinly veiled disparaging remarks. try and start a thread discussing issues at a shelter or shelters and see how long it is before someone chimes in with "well thats why you shouldn't stay at shelters." or "why would anyone want to stay a shelter in the first place."?

some of the others include "why would anyone want to hike that fast?" said in reply to someone's proposed itinerary being more miles a day than they personally can handle and "i carry over 50 lbs" when someone tries to discuss how to carry less weight.

note there are no equal but opposite arguments. no one ever says "i really don't get why anyone disperse camps in a tent" or "you should really try and hike faster."

i always find it rather curious.

[MuddyWaters]

Geepers what in the world do the poor souls do on trails without shelters during those dreadful thundersterms? I guess they just sleep it out in collapsed tents everywhere.

3500 trail miles, 1 collapsed tent due to wind...Ill take my chances. I have many times arrived to an empty shelter location in the rain and set my tent up. I sleep as well in my tent as I do at home and personally love nothing more then the sound of rain hitting my tent. So I cant wait to have it set up during rain. Rain is rain, its all wet. Heavy rain or light rain ill be over here in my tent.

I love sleeping in tarp in rain
Lift head up and see rain pouring off tarp only inches away, while snug and dry

But i hate setting up in rain. And packing up.

And if it's thundering and lightning and I had the pitch under trees I don't sleep too well until it slacks up a little bit.

The overriding problem with shelters is simply the sheer number of people they attract, and all the problems that brings. In the spring in the bubble, the vast majority of people at the shelter are not in the shelter. 58 of those 70 people could have dispersed...many of these people are psychologically attached to shelters and will not camp anywhere else. Many thru-hikers never spent a night alone on the trail either. They are scared to.

It's so common to see people pitched on horrible sloping ground that's hard-packed around shelters, and then a hundred yards farther down the trail is nice flat ground with nobody there

[WTX2WY]

If you are talking about the 7 individuals killed on the AT proper, at least 6 of them were killed at shelters.

Molly LaRue, 25, from Shaker Heights, Ohio
Geoffrey Hood, 26, from Signal Mountain, Tennessee
Susan Ramsey, 27 from Ellsworth Maine
Robert Mountford, 27, from Ellsworth, Maine
Janice Balza, 22, from Madison, Wisconsin
Joel Polsom, 26, of Hartsville, South Carolina

The exact location of the killing of 7th individual, Scott Lilly, has not been published, though his body was found not far from one.

Other murders have been associated with the AT (bring the total to 11) but none of those were on the Trail itself. However in one of those crimes, one of the victims and her partner had an uncomfortable run in with the killer at an AT shelter.

One common thread to each murder at a shelter is that they occurred at time well outside of the busy season and the bubble of thru hikers. Another commonality is that all (or most, not sure about Joel Polsom) were AT thru hikers or in one case, a long-distance section hiker

Long but good read about Molly and Geoff, from a hiker who met them on the trail

[BradMT]

On my summer's long walk of the AT in 1977, my partner and I stayed at a shelter just over the GA/NC border and experienced some "paranormal" activity overnight... the Postmaster at Fontana Damn chalked it up to the wandering spirit/murder of Joel Polsom 3 years earlier at the Low Gap Trail Shelter.

[middle to middle]

Nothing better on a cold windy rainy day ware there is also a pile of firewood!

[HooKooDooKu]

...I actually hung my hammock in a shelter...

While I don't know the rules for the bulk of the AT, in GSMNP, you are NOT allowed to attach your hammock to any part of the shelter (or any other structure).

[Dogwood]

I'm a hammock hanger. I'd say I'm about 50/50. The only time I've actually stayed in shelters itself were recent trips. I actually hung my hammock in a shelter after I was caught in a downpour. It was great, so the next trip, when I figured I'm spending the night alone, I did the same. Other than that, I just go whatever planned mileage I think I can do that day and either camp in a campsite alone or by a shelter. I often go pretty off season and during the week, so frequently have shelters to myself. Even then, I'll usually do all my tasks at the shelter and leave my gear there, but hang and sleep nearby.

Hanging in a shelter during high use periods like any time other than maybe winter is a good way to start confrontations. Some AT lean to's are rather rickety for hanging. In my limited winter hanging experiences inside AT lean to's I sometimes had to take down the hang because the shelter was moving from my 205 lb wt. It can be done though when alone setting up after 10 p.m., and where legal and safe for the shelter. Sucks, having to take down the hang when snuggled in falling to sleep when late arriving after 10 p.m folks also seeking to stay inside the shelter appear. They have as much right to appropriate space in the shelter as me taking up more space than etiquette allows.

[Slumgum]

I hiked the Long Trail this year to prep for a 2019 AT thru hike. I much preferred tenting. That said, there were times when after slogging through miles of mud holes for days on end and setting up and taking down my tent in the rain over and over that eventually almost all my gear was damp if not soaked. (Pack covers and trash compactor bags can only do so much!) So, I see a place for shelters. Perhaps some who brag about exclusively tenting on the trail are the same ones taking a couple of zeroes in town every week? Either way, that is OK since, ultimately, there is no "right" or "wrong" way to hike.

As for interaction, in my experience, a significant number of hikers at shelters spent more time fixated on their little glowing stroke and poke devices than conversing with fellow hikers. Still, I met some wonderful people at shelters. Looking forward to the AT.

[Dogwood]

....As for interaction, in my experience, a significant number of hikers at shelters spent more time fixated on their little glowing stroke and poke devices than conversing with fellow hikers. Still, I met some wonderful people at shelters. Looking forward to the AT.

Last yr finishing up another PCT completion at Crater Lake NP outside the Mazama Village Store where many PCTers send a box or supplement, outside at the three picnic tables with 17 other PCTers, most of whom were NOBO thrus, 15 Zombies were fixated solely on their devices while not interacting personally face to face with anyone. Then again, last yr Cali legalized too with most PCTers taking advantage, from what I could tell.

[bighammer]

Even when there were shelters, I was more comfortable in my tent. I camped at shelters only a few times, only because I ended up there when I felt done for the day. Often some interesting people to mingle with.