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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoczi View Post
    ...... the easiest 4.6 miles one can imagine, when tagged on to 13 other miles, isnt so easy. i guess it goes to approach to hiking. if youre trying to plan full days squeezing on an extra couple of miles isnt in the cards. if you're taking a a lackadaisical approach where most days end early then it is.
    This is a gem!! Thanks. I'm thinking of this idea in more general terms--like in almost every AT hiking trip I plan.

    I've had it both ways.. Left wondering where the time/daylight went and why I couldn't tack on a couple extra miles to get to xx (town/shelter/back to vehicle, etc.). OR Realizing I had a lot of extra time at camp or flexibility in where I wanted to end the day.

    Focusing on that binary question is something I haven't consistently asked....yet: Am I maxing out miles on this day? Or, am I going light?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoczi View Post
    i also still dont know what you would suggest doing the next morning when you got up and started out from osgood. you have 4.6 miles to pinkham notch or 18 to imp shelter. we both agree 18 to the imp shelter isnt happening, so we're back at where can you camp when you get to pinkham anyway.
    Ideally you go to Carter Notch. Or you go to Pinkham, hitch down to Gorham, do a resupply and then go over to the Rattle river hostel or hike into the Rattle river shelter. That's your NERO. Then hike up to the Imp shelter for a night, then across the ridge and down back to Pinkham.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoczi View Post
    i honestly can not rectify how the guy who wants to keep all days at around 10 miles per day can claim that 4.6 miles isnt significantly closer. by your figuring thats nearly half a days hike. on what plane of reality is half a day's hike not significant? 4.6 miles is either a long way or it isn't, pick one. stop trying to have it both ways.
    You could consider taking a stroll from Osgood tent site down a blue blue blaze to Route 16, then glide up the relatively easy 19 Mile Brook Trail to the AT at Carter Hut. You would miss the chance to take a shower at Pinkham, but also a potentially agonizing trudge straight up Wild Cat. Not sure about miles, but I think it has to be way shorter. Other shortcuts to Imp definitely are.

    As for camping, I have to think that necessity can be the mother of invention. If the weather is good you donít even need to set up a tent.

    Regardless of how you get over Wild Cat (is the chair lift running?) I am thinking there could be plenty of legal flat spots near the intersection of the 19 Mile Brook Trail and the AT (bit foggy on that) Just a thought.
    Last edited by rickb; 03-16-2019 at 06:27.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Ideally you go to Carter Notch. Or you go to Pinkham, hitch down to Gorham, do a resupply and then go over to the Rattle river hostel or hike into the Rattle river shelter. That's your NERO. Then hike up to the Imp shelter for a night, then across the ridge and down back to Pinkham.
    carter is out cause gambit doesnt want to do that, so now youve left yourself with a 4.6 mile day.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    You could consider taking a stroll from Osgood tent site down a blue blue blaze to Route 16, then glide up the relatively easy 19 Mile Brook Trail to the AT at Carter Hut. You would miss the chance to take a shower at Pinkham, but also a potentially agonizing trudge straight up Wild Cat. Not sure about miles, but I think it has to be way shorter. Other shortcuts to Imp definitely are.

    As for camping, I have to think that necessity can be the mother of invention. If the weather is good you don’t even need to set up a tent.

    Regardless of how you get over Wild Cat (is the chair lift running?) I am thinking there could be plenty of legal flat spots near the intersection of the 19 Mile Brook Trail and the AT (bit foggy on that) Just a thought.
    well if we're constructing a non-AT specific hike in the whites then theres about a zillion possibilities

    i would think theres legal camping near the intersection with 19 mile brook as well, but others who i presume know better say not.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoczi View Post
    carter is out cause gambit doesnt want to do that, so now youve left yourself with a 4.6 mile day.
    and if youre going to town when you get to pinkham then why camp at osgood? i mean that 4.6 miles isn't significant...

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoczi View Post
    well if we're constructing a non-AT specific hike in the whites then theres about a zillion possibilities

    i would think theres legal camping near the intersection with 19 mile brook as well, but others who i presume know better say not.
    Here is a map showing the FPA. And to beat others to the punch, yes it is very true that just because a spot is legal does not me it is practical for all people and kinds of campers.

    Forest Protection Area:

    9F256DF8-2385-4AB0-8DFE-09714E426D37.png

    And for comtext:
    CBE6255D-B091-4378-B49C-D15FFCAF52B6.jpg

  8. #108
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    The Presis are a good place to do nearos. Some days are going to be shorter. Take advantage of them. Osgood to Pinkham, Nearo. Pinkham to Imp, doable, but long. Imp to Rt 2, Nearo. Rt2 to Gentian, or Carlo col. Carlo Col to Speck Pond, or Rt26, or Bald Pate shelter. Depends on how you feel. Be flexible. I hiked it during Hurricane Harvey. The days were shorter thanI liked, but I didn't die sliding down Mahoosuc Arm, either. The climb from Speck Pond to the summit of Old Speck is steep. It seems like a shorter version of the Arm. The views are so much better tho. To say that old Speck is one of the easier 4k's is kinda funny. From 3300', yeah, Old Speck is easy. Rt 26 side starts around 1400'. From that side, it isn't so easy.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by egilbe View Post
    The Presis are a good place to do nearos. Some days are going to be shorter. Take advantage of them. Osgood to Pinkham, Nearo. Pinkham to Imp, doable, but long. Imp to Rt 2, Nearo. Rt2 to Gentian, or Carlo col. Carlo Col to Speck Pond, or Rt26, or Bald Pate shelter. Depends on how you feel. Be flexible. I hiked it during Hurricane Harvey. The days were shorter thanI liked, but I didn't die sliding down Mahoosuc Arm, either. The climb from Speck Pond to the summit of Old Speck is steep. It seems like a shorter version of the Arm. The views are so much better tho. To say that old Speck is one of the easier 4k's is kinda funny. From 3300', yeah, Old Speck is easy. Rt 26 side starts around 1400'. From that side, it isn't so easy.
    i've done it from the grafton notch side.

    so what 4K is easier? "easier" and "easy" arent the same thing.

    but old speck, from either side, is noticeably not as hard as the other 4Ks i've done.

  10. #110
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    I think all the Presis are easier than Old Speck. Hell, I think all the Maine 4K's I've done were harder than anything in NH, although I still 10 to do, so my opinion may change

    Ok, maybe not Wildcats. I was in a coma from exhaustion and forgot about that one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egilbe View Post
    I think all the Presis are easier than Old Speck. Hell, I think all the Maine 4K's I've done were harder than anything in NH, although I still 10 to do, so my opinion may change

    Ok, maybe not Wildcats. I was in a coma from exhaustion and forgot about that one.
    well i agree the 4Ks further up in Maine i've done are harder than much of NH, but i would also say theyre harder than old speck. the gencliff side of moosilauke might be close to as easy. both of them are just a lot of uphill walking. not a lot of using hands or making big uncomfortable steps up. mostly good, easily walked on trail that happened to be uphill. i can walk on stuff like that all day, doesnt bother me.

  12. #112
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    The problem with Old Speck from the notch is every time you think your getting close to the top, you still have a long way to go. The problem from the Speck pond side is all those big boulders you first have to scramble over, then those steep, exposed granite ledges can be really slippery when wet. It's a real scary climb in not so good weather. It's really spectacular in good weather though.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoczi View Post
    well if we're constructing a non-AT specific hike in the whites then theres about a zillion possibilities

    i would think theres legal camping near the intersection with 19 mile brook as well, but others who i presume know better say not.
    The 19 mile brook trail intersects the AT at Zeta pass. A no camping area. However, that doesn't stop people even though the only place to put up a tent is right in the middle of the trail intersection. There is no way your going 200 feet off the trail there. Or even 10 feet.

    I though I might have a picture of the pass when I was up there last summer, but apparently not, just pictures of the summit of Mount Hight.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  14. #114
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    I think we've beat this subject pretty much to death.

    The bottom line is this: Do yourself and the enviorment a favor and stay at the designated sites or huts and stay on the damn trail. If that means a "short" day, that's just the way it is and you have to schedual for it. Some of those "short" days might be short in miles but not in effort.

    The Whites are an excetionally high traffic/useage area with a lot of enviormentallly sensitve areas and difficult terrain.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  15. #115
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    W
    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    The 19 mile brook trail intersects the AT at Zeta pass. A no camping area. However, that doesn't stop people even though the only place to put up a tent is right in the middle of the trail intersection. There is no way your going 200 feet off the trail there. Or even 10 feet.
    I believe you are a bit mixed up.

    The 19 Mile Brook Trail intersects the AT in Carter Notch ó not far from the hut.

    It is the Carter Dome Trail That intersects the AT at Zeta Pass (a clearly marked Forest Protection Area).

    Here is a map with the FPAs for reference.

    While you would need to move far enough down the 19 Mile Brook Trail a bit to be 1/4 mile away from the hut, I believe the Trail is outside of any wilderness area so a strict adherence to the 200 foot requirement would not be required.

    62291077-EFC8-404F-BA96-DB1232A534C0.png

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    W

    I believe you are a bit mixed up.

    The 19 Mile Brook Trail intersects the AT in Carter Notch — not far from the hut.

    It is the Carter Dome Trail That intersects the AT at Zeta Pass (a clearly marked Forest Protection Area).

    Here is a map with the FPAs for reference.

    While you would need to move far enough down the 19 Mile Brook Trail a bit to be 1/4 mile away from the hut, I believe the Trail is outside of any wilderness area so a strict adherence to the 200 foot requirement would not be required.

    62291077-EFC8-404F-BA96-DB1232A534C0.png
    Okay sorry your right, the Carter dome trial branches off the 19 mile brook to go to zeta pass, while the brook trail continues on to the hut.

    In any event, both trails head steeply up from the junction, good luck camping off the trail on the side of the mountain on a 60 degree slope in thick pine growth with boulders littering the ground. Like I said, legal doesn't mean practical or even possible.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  17. #117
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    How far down the end of the 19 Mile Brook Trail do you think you would need to walk to find a tent site?

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    How far down the end of the 19 Mile Brook Trail do you think you would need to walk to find a tent site?
    All the way to the bottom.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  19. #119
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    To the intersection of 19mile Brook and Carter Dome trail, it flattens out pretty good. But, you are only a couple miles from Pinkham Notch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egilbe View Post
    To the intersection of 19mile Brook and Carter Dome trail, it flattens out pretty good. But, you are only a couple miles from Pinkham Notch.
    but if one is doing an AT hike thats a couple miles you wont be hiking and youve gotten over wildcat and found a place to camp before doing the carters.

    i was kind of having a head scratch over the idea that the 19 mile brook trail went up carter dome myself, to be honest. good one Slo'.

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