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  1. #1
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    Default Sleeping Bag Liner

    I have a Western Mountaineering 20* bag. I'm looking for recommendations for a lightweight bag liner to use in colder temps.

    Thanks

  2. #2

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    I have a COCOON silk liner which I like a lot. My 20 degree bag seems to be cut for someone with a much larger girth then myself, so the liner helps fill up the dead space. It doesn't improve the temp rating that much, but enough to make it worth having.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  3. #3

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    Save your money. For the weight difference of even the lightest bag liners, you could have warmer baselayers for sleeping, a higher r-value pad or even add in a windshirt, any of which will be more "cost-effective" weightwise at increasing the range of your sleep system. If you're not already using your other clothing to supplement your bag's insulation, that would be a good first step.
    I bought a S2S Thermolite Reactor years ago. It's come in handy a couple times in the summer when even a 50F quilt is too much, but I want a tiny bit of something, like a thin sheet, on top of me. Bit of a pain to get in and out of, and pretty much useless, anyway.
    If you want an example of how ineffective these liners that supposedly add 15F or more really are, look no further than Western Mountaineering. They have silk and polyester liners that they market solely for keeping the bag clean.
    Memory fail on the model name, but some years past they did have a liner that was claimed to add either 10 or 15F to a bag. It was insulated, and had 1" of loft.

  4. #4

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    In classic Whiteblaze fashion, people have answered the OP with orthogonal information. However, OwenM does make a point, albeit snarkily. The liner you will use exactly once per day, while if you doubled-up on a better baselayer or windshirt or something else you could be warmer AND have other gear choices for different weather conditions.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllDownhillFromHere View Post
    In classic Whiteblaze fashion, people have answered the OP with orthogonal information. However, OwenM does make a point, albeit snarkily. The liner you will use exactly once per day, while if you doubled-up on a better baselayer or windshirt or something else you could be warmer AND have other gear choices for different weather conditions.
    Had to look up orthogonal....well played...and very true.

  6. #6
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    What are your goals by considering adding that piece? What ultimate lowest temp of the total sleep system are you attempting to achieve? Are you just trying to add a bit of warmth?

    Owen is right in there're a bunch of different ways to add warmth to a sleep system... and they don't ALL involve spending $$$ on more gear or more complicated sleep systems. HOWEVER, I disagree that a liner can't be an efficient part of that system while also functioning in multiple other capacities. A liner can absolutely work to increase warmth at no substantial wt, bulk, or dollar cost penalty...even when compared to comparable warmth adding lightest wt synthetic or Wintersilk type LS shirt and long johns. But, individual user abilities and sleep system set ups vary wildly which is why bag/quilt liner manufacturers plainly state "CAN ADD UP TO ? degrees of warmth. Additionally, as you know, all liners are not equally created so be careful identifying what's being reviewed or compared in what personal context when hearing generalized comparisons or gear reviews.

    I only have used the lightest wt(sub 5 oz) 100% ripstop silk or microfiber polyester Cocoon or c2Summit mummy liners w/ hoods and shoulder drawstring while employing other methods and pieces to add sleep system warmth to a bag or quilt based system to bring the system's warmth comfort down to as much as 25* below just a bag's(EN Lower limit) or quilt's assigned temp rating. This is not typical though! FWIW, as a very wt conscious backpacker adding such a liner tends to not be my first choice to add warmth. I would not personally do so if I only used the liner when sleeping. I use it additionally as a hammock or hanging sitting chair strung between two trees and many times as a mid or next to skin apparel layer. Silk feels great next to skin in cold temps. It was a much used layer on many segments of a CDT SOBO thru-hike. I wrap it around me toga style when washing all my other hiking clothing too. Additionally, I wouldn't and haven't used just a liner to add more than 5-7 * of warmth.

    I get the most(more?) warmth out of these models because the drawstring cords are loosely drawn closed like a bag or quilt around the shoulders and the hoods are up around my head. Not every user does this. IMO that's equivalent to not putting up the hood or cinching the shoulder cord on a conventional sleeping bag or not cinching down the shoulder cord on a quilt and blaming the bag's(EN Lower Limit) or quilt's assigned temp rating as inflated.


    Another warming additive a liner does especially on longer very active winter trips where I'm staying out for 7 days and longer without town access or stopping to dry gear is, with my sleeping apparel and dry outer layers worn inside a bag or quilt, the liner reduces insensible perspiration and vapor infiltration into the down of a bag or quilt reducing loft collapse which can exponentially increase warmth the longer I'm out with less sleep system warmth fall off...up to a degree! This has the potential to keep me on trail and warmer longer. When I don't want to add a 7-8 oz bivy that might add up to 10*but want to reduce drafts thereby increasing sleep comfort at less wt I also might employ a older 3.7-newer 4.7 liner when using a zipper-less quilt. These aren't the only viable approaches to addressing these issues but I want to note a liner does more/can do more than some realize.

    I have two of these; one unused. Unused one is white color. https://www.cocoon.at/products/index...mummyliners_en
    https://www.rei.com/product/850427/c...lk-mummy-liner
    I've have older ones that once weighed as little as 3.4 oz in different colors. I use mine so don't need to sell it but..."want to try this new one out for $45?"

    Opinions and your mileage may vary but based on how I've used these stated liners IMO and most forthright estimate I personally get 5-7*f warming and draft busting boost while potentially introducing other positive aspects. It gets me through those variable coldest weather sleeping scenarios without having to eventually submit to a heavier sleeping bag.

  7. #7
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    Default

    I bought a name brand liner 4 years ago and it is a complete waste of money. I agree with OwenM.

  8. #8
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    Spfleisig, have you considered different liners than what have yet been discussed? Have you considered purchasing or a DIY MYOG liner out of taffeta like Dutch offers or impermeable Western Mountaineering VBL that IS MARKETED towards increasing warmth/reducing heat loss? With the most rudimentary skills and materials a liner sack can be made for less than $25 out of Argon .76 taffeta. As Dutch demonstrates it has the advantages of not only being used inside as a liner but outside a bag such as your WM 20*. Essentially you have a WR or WP liner and bivy for less than $25 to play with.

    https://dutchwaregear.com/product/quilt-liner/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqJBfzYOcEQ


    http://www.westernmountaineering.com...es/hotsac-vbl/
    From the WM website: "This fire engine red vapor barrier liner is your most important companion for those technical winter trips. A VBL works by stopping heat loss from evaporative cooling. A VBL will also prevent your body vapor from degrading your insulation. This is most important during extended stays inside your bag. Our Hot Sac™ VBL goes one step further by stopping radiant heat loss with its reflective metal coating. An elastic draw cord at the top of the Hot Sac™ cinches about your neck to prevent convective heat loss. This proprietary fabric is a new lightweight ripstop. The new Hot Sac™ weighs only 4.5 ounces and is light enough to carry on day trips as an emergency bivy.".

    Several others like Oware, JRB, Montbell, SOL, etc offer other avenues for exploration if a liner is on your bucket list. And if you're on a really tight budget and you still aren't sure liners/bivies are part of the equation you can check out Dicks or WalMart for their $15 lighter wt fleece "sleeping bags" or for less than $10 cost while possibly saving some wt compared to the fleece liner options check this out. https://www.amazon.com/SE-EB122OR-Su...1R3QQZ7DTSFQ21

  9. #9
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    I have a WM Sycamore (*25) that I love and find pretty accurate to rating. When I want to stretch that or augment it just a bit more, I use the WM Everlite (*45) ( this, I believe, was just referenced by a previous poster) -- 14oz, and when used as a "overbag" gives me a good *10. I picked it up on Ebay this spring in lieu of a STS liner, and very glad I did. Adds a lot of versatility to my sleeping bag livery.
    fortis fortuna adjuvat

  10. #10
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    Default

    I have been happy with my Smartwool silk liner... used it for three years during section hikes ranging from 210-55 miles with temps ranging from 55-80 at night. Note: my sleeping bag is a Marmot down 50 rating.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by shelb View Post
    I have been happy with my Smartwool silk liner... used it for three years during section hikes ranging from 210-55 miles with temps ranging from 55-80 at night. Note: my sleeping bag is a Marmot down 50 rating.
    Forgot to mention. .. I sleep super cold!!!! My husband would have been fine in only a fleece all the nights I used both the liner and down bag!

  12. #12
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    Default

    I don't think OwenM's response was at all snarky, and I'm not entirely sure it was orthogonal, but I think he was spot on. I have a S2S Thermolite Reactor Plus, unused (I did try to slip into it when it arrived). Yours for the cost of shipping!

  13. #13

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    +1 on long underwear (weight to match season), if you're going to carry it, might as well be a multi-tasker.

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