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  1. #121
    Registered User scope's Avatar
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    FWIW - I appreciate HKDK's and TNHiker's post as sources of information on this sad incident.
    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

  2. #122
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    I think the signage is more than adequate and has been for the numerous hikers before her. We could ban cars from the park, only shuttles, to prevent auto accident deaths and require all hikers to have a guide. With enough visitors someone would still get hit by a shuttle or wander off from a group and perish.

    There are risks associated with any activity. Considering the time of day and weather there were additional risks that were assumed without adequate preparations.

    For it all we know she took a wrong turn or got off the trail before the intersections with the signs. She could have also had no problem seeing them and simply misread them. Neon signs won’t prevent either of those situations.

    Inchworm was a tragic but great example of unpreparedness and poor decision making. Sometimes people won’t take warnings seriously until there’s a death in the Whites, Grand Canyon, Smokies etc that makes the news.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonehiker View Post
    What he (she?) said.

    It is like this, and this may be hard for most of you to swallow. But, the only person at "fault", for lack of a better term, was the hiker and her apparent lack of backcountry skills, inadequate clothing, and lack of necessary gear. Bad things happen to good people. It sucks, but that is life. The take on this tragedy should be that everyone that wanders into the backcountry should go into it with adequate knowledge, skills, and equipment.
    I think the second saddest thing in all of this is that I don't disagree with you in principle. My question of "what is sufficient?" wasn't directly answered, but rather the whole idea that I would ask such a question was.
    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    TNHiker Have the autopsy reports been released on this woman or the ginseng hiker?



    no...

    not as of 3 pm on friday at least...

    we have asked for it though....


    and for point of reference----autospys can take months...



    for reference----the autospy for Jenny Bennett back in 2015 and she was found dead in the Park, took like 4 months or so to come back...

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    How about 50 feet?
    In GSMNP, the terrain is so steep and the forest so thick...
    I was once hiking the AT from Mt Collins shelter SOBO, planning to transition to Clingman's Dome Road at Collins Gap to walk the road to the Noland Divide Trailhead.

    Thru Collins Gap, the AT parallels the road for about 1/4 mile... most of the time only 50' off the road. But there's only a short section before the AT climbs beyond Collins Gap that the trail is about level with the road.

    So, in any case... I'm walking the AT waiting to get to Collins Gap to pop out on the road. I missed Collins Gap and didn't know it until after the AT had started climbing away from the road.
    True. I hiked the SNP this summer and the AT parallels the road in many places, but you know there's a road there only when a vehicle passes.

  6. #126
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    ON THE SUBJECT OF SIGNAGE...

    I know I've made mention of this in places before on this subject... but just to be sure I'm going to repeat it here...

    In the Facebook Group 'Hike the Smokies', one of the frequent posters is someone is a part of the NPS.

    This person pointed out that after any incident such at this that occurs in the park, a review is done. If that review indicates that something should be corrected, such as insufficient signage, the park service will take action.

  7. #127
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    This person pointed out that after any incident such at this that occurs in the park, a review is done.



    and hopefully the review will be made public......

    but, i doubt it will.......

  8. #128
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    [QUOTE=TNhiker;2225564]that's not correct though...
    and how do we not know the paint in the signs is not reflective?

    The only signs in the Smokies that have paint are those trailhead signs that can be seen from parking lots and roads (it was years before I figures that out and asked the question). On those, the letters are painted white to allow them to be seen better from a distance. The signs at these intersections in question are all new signs that simply have the words cut into the wood.

  9. #129

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    I had not seen this report. https://www.citizen-times.com/story/...rk/1522628002/

    The spokesperson for the park described Mrs. Clements as an experienced on trail hiker.Yes,she was apparently out there unprepped and should have known better.But it was supposed to be a short little park stroll from her perspective until something went dreadfully wrong.

    Spokesperson went on to say it was likely foggy and Mrs. Clements may not have seen the sign.
    I did not know until I saw this a few minutes ago that this was the 11th fatality in the park this year.I'm no math whiz but by my math calculations that would be 1.1 deaths per month so far this year.I had no idea that many people have died in the park this year.

    Spokesperson did not mention the cost of the search but it had to have been significant in terms of man hours and helicopter usage etc.Even if a great portion of it was made by volunteers there was still a huge and commendable effort made in Mrs. Clements behalf.

    There is no way of knowing if a little white paint on the sign post would have altered this tragic outcome or not but I don't see anyone complaining about White Blazes painted on trees and rocks on the AT spoiling their wilderness experience.

    So like Forest Gump,that's all I've got to say about that.

  10. #130

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    She was an experienced hiker? They must be considering the possibility that she didn’t walk right past those signs. All possibilities seem so unlikely. Very strange.

  11. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    I had not seen this report. https://www.citizen-times.com/story/...rk/1522628002/

    The spokesperson for the park described Mrs. Clements as an experienced on trail hiker.Yes,she was apparently out there unprepped and should have known better.But it was supposed to be a short little park stroll from her perspective until something went dreadfully wrong.

    Spokesperson went on to say it was likely foggy and Mrs. Clements may not have seen the sign.
    I did not know until I saw this a few minutes ago that this was the 11th fatality in the park this year.I'm no math whiz but by my math calculations that would be 1.1 deaths per month so far this year.I had no idea that many people have died in the park.

    Unfortunately, auto and motorcycle crash fatalities aren’t uncommon in GSMNP.

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