Route Feedback - 6 night - 50 Miles

[MMLRAK]

Hi All - My first post on this forum. Great site and so much helpful interaction!

We are planning our first trip to the Smokies and I'm looking for any feedback anyone might have on our route, days, other suggestions.

Also wondering if others have been here this time of year? Think we could see 70 during the day, but maybe around freezing at night depending on elevation?

Trip dates - 9/29-10/5

Day Start End Miles Trails
Saturday Clingmans Dm Camp 57 9.2 Clingman's Dome Road, Noland Divide, Pole Rd Creek
Sunday Camp 57 Camp 52 7.15 Martins Gap, Sunkota Ridge, Newton Bald
Monday Camp 52 Camp 48 9.25 Newton Bald, Chasteen Creek
Tuesday Camp 48 Pecks Corner 6.3 Chasteen Creek, Hughes Ridge
Wed Pecks Corner Icewater Spring 8.1 Huges Ridge, AT Southbound
Thursday Icewater Spring Mount Collins 7.5 AT Southbound
Friday Mount Collins Clingman's Dome 3.8 AT Southbound

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Thanks much!!

[TNhiker]

thats an interesting loop...

lots of ups and downs.....

ill be the first to ask----do you have experience in hiking in the Park? and know what you are getting yourself into?

[HooKooDooKu]

Looking at "climate averages", you should see day-time highs at lower elevations of about 80º and night time lows at higher elevations of about 40º.
But those are just "averages"... typical reality will easily be +/-10º (so just check the forecast as you head out).

An alternative to the 1.5 mile road walk between Clingman's Dome parking lot and Noland Divide trail head would be a 3/4 mile road walk between Collins Gap and Noland Divide trail head.
Collins Gap is that one saddle point along Clingman's Dome road where you have views to both the TN and NC side of the mountains, and there is a little used parking lot that can hold a dozen cars at the Gap.
The AT practically touches Clingman's Dome road at the Gap (actually, right where the parking lot is, the AT is about 10' down the side of the mountain such that you can't even see the road... but about 100' beyond the parking lot (towards Clingman's Dome) it becomes an almost level 20' "bush whack" between the road and the trail).

You could park at the Gap, walk the 3/4 mile to Noland Divide at the start, and stop the last day when you reach the gap. It would cut 3/4 mile off your 1st day and 2-1/2 miles off your last day (including the 1/2 mile between the dome and the parking lot). If you want to see the view from the dome, you could always to the dome as a day hike before or after your trip.

[TNhiker]

yeah....

i was going to likewise suggest the little side trail that takes one to the AT off the road, but figured the actual dome was part of the route and what not..

and, while its been years, i believe there's a sign for the trail at that gap..............

[HooKooDooKu]

thats an interesting loop...

lots of ups and downs.....

ill be the first to ask----do you have experience in hiking in the Park? and know what you are getting yourself into?

If this was a four night trip (something very doable for an experienced GSMNP camper) I'd raise the same question. But the plan is for less than 10 miles per day. The most "difficult" day I see is the climb from Smokemont to Pecks shelter. And now that I've gotten a closer look at the plans, the 2nd day is way too short... just an easy climb from CS61 and all down hill to Deep Creek campsites.

[TNhiker]

I'd raise the same question.

my thought is that it always needs to be asked.....

ive seen plenty of people bail on what would be considered an easy trip after a mile or two...

some people just dont know what they are getting themselves into....

[HooKooDooKu]

i believe there's a sign for the trail at that gap..............

I think the sign you're thinking of is the one at the Fork Ridge trail head near Mt Collins.

I just did a loop over Labor Day weekend parking at the Gap. There is no sign, and no manway between the AT and Clingman's Dome road at Collins Gap.

Actually, right at the gap (where the parking lot is located) the AT dips way below the ridge such that it's a dangerous bushwhack right at that point. Additionally, the trees are just thick enough that (during the summer), you never even see the road (I know because I tried to use the gap a few years ago by parking at Fork Ridge trial head, then hiked the AT to the gap and then the road to Noland Divide... but I missed the gap and didn't know it for sure until the AT started climbing away from the road and I had to bushwhack down a drainage to the road).

What I learned this Labor Day weekend is that the trail is almost level with the road towards the end of the gap (in the direction of Clingman's Dome). At that point, it's an easy bushwhack from the road to the AT (excluding the grassy margin, the AT is about 30' into the woods... hence the reason I missed the gap walking the AT.
For that trip, I parked at the Gap, hiked the AT out to Welch Ridge and down Jonas Creek... on to the tunnel at the end of Lakeshore, then Noland Creek and Noland Divide back to Clingman's Dome road (then the 3/4 mile road walk back to the gap to get back to the car).

[TNhiker]

I think the sign you're thinking of is the one at the Fork Ridge trail head near Mt Collins.

ahhhh......got my gaps confused...

[HooKooDooKu]

ahhhh......got my gaps confused...

From what I recall driving Clingman's Dome Road last weekend... Collins Gap is the only spot along the road where you can see BOTH into TN and NC. Everywhere else, either the mountain or the trees block you view on at least one side. The other way to identify this gap is it's the other spot along Clingman's Dome Road where the parking is perpendicular to the road... all the others are parallel parking, except for the pullout at the Road Prong trail head.

[Ashepabst]

no notes from me, but the route looks like fun! that's a great AT section.

[TNhiker]

no notes from me,

we were counting on you to provide some musical notes......

[illabelle]

Husband and I did part of your proposed route this past weekend (I'm still hobbling).
We did the 22.6 mile Mountain-to-Sea route from Clingman's Dome Road to Newfound Gap Rd utilizing the following trails:
Fork Ridge 5.1m
Deep Creek 3.6m + .7m
Martins Gap 1.5m
Sunkota Ridge 4.9m
Thomas Divide .4m
Newton Bald .7m
Mingus Creek 5.7m
We camped at Smokemont the night before, then at backcountry campsite 56 Sat night.

Observations:
The online map doesn't show the mileage of all the little pieces, so we got a couple extra miles that we weren't expecting. Dumb mistake on my part. Also, the campsites 54,55,56,57 are spread out a little more than is implied by the map. There were a few other people out, but not very many. The creek at campsite 56 was a great place for a cool rinse-off. Trail conditions were generally good, no places with badly overgrown weeds, a handful of spots with moderate overgrowth.

It was mostly dry except for a light shower Saturday night until mid-afternoon on Sunday. We saw virtually no wildlife on the trail, except for a crazy looking caterpillar, one fish, and a few insects - until the rain. Then we saw 4 toads, two red crayfish that reared up as if to kill us - haha! and a magnificent elk with many-pointed antlers about a mile or two from Mingus Mill.

We also encountered two hunting dogs, a black male with a radio collar and a white spotted female, on Sunkota Ridge Trail headed into the park. Sadly, they were starving. We gave them some crackers, hoping they would turn around a follow us, which they did. A while later they went ahead of us, and we didn't see them again after we stopped for a break. Just before the rain started we met another couple coming towards us. They said they had seen (and fed) the dogs at the Mingus/Deeplow junction. They weren't at the junction when we got there, and they weren't at the Mingus Mill parking lot, so they either turned right on Deeplow and went deeper into the park, or they got out ahead of us and went somewhere else. Maybe you'll see them.

The stream crossing at campsite 53 was a little tricky for me. Mr Longlegs stepped across successfully, but when I turned back to take off my shoes and wade barefoot, I slipped and submerged my foot - so then I just surrendered and waded across in my shoes. Most other crossings were uneventful, except that Mingus Creek Trail during the rain was a couple inches deep.

[HooKooDooKu]

I stated before that I thought your 2nd day (#61 to #56) was crazy short (my data shows it as only 5 miles with about 700' of climbing).

Here's a couple of concrete alternative suggestions to do practically the same loop, but eliminating such a short day in the middle of the hike:

1. Rather than road walking to Noland Divide and camping at #61, hike down Forney Ridge and camp at #64. The next day, continue up Noland Creek and rejoin your itinerary.
This option avoids the road walk, allows you to experience Andrews Bald, but is longer the 1st day (about 8.5 miles all down hill), and adds the climb along Noland Creek to the 2nd day.

2. Start at Smokemont and hike to CS#48 (5 miles with about 1,000' elevation gain). Next day, resume your itinerary with stops as Peck's Corner & IceWater Springs shelters. Then add Mount Collins shelter the next night. The day after, follow the AT to Collins Gap and then use the 3/4 mile road walk to access Noland Ridge. Skip the hike down to #61 and instead go strait to #56. Resume you itinerary with #52 the next night before returning to your car at Smokemont.
If you do the loop this way, I suggested parking spot would be the small parking lot practically adjacent to the bridge that crosses the creek separating New Found Gap Road with Smokemont Campground. There is a trail right across from the bridge that will allow you to skip walking thru the Smokemont campground and join Bradley Fork Trail a short distance into the woods.

[TNhiker]

This option avoids the road walk, allows you to experience Andrews Bald

just keep eyes open for the trail coming out of the back of the bald..............lots of people find it hard to find......

also, a couple of water crossings on noland creek going from 64 up to 61...

[Slo-go'en]

Be sure to find out what, if any damage was done by Florance over the next few days. It could seriously impack the Smokies and your trip is 2 weeks away.

[rmitchell]

Have you considered doing the loop in the opposite direction? Big climb on last day, but most of you food should be gone by then.

+1 on checking trail conditions post Florence.

[Ashepabst]

we were counting on you to provide some musical notes......

ahem... lala lala la... 'and my tunes were played on the harp unstrung'

[Ashepabst]

hike down Forney Ridge and camp at #64.

there's a picnic table at 64 for some reason --nice to take a load off, anyway. lookout for yellow jacket nests. I only mention it because it's that time of year and I passed at least a half dozen nests right on the trail when I did Springhouse Branch a few years ago. most had been torn up by bears and they were not happy bees.

[TNhiker]

there's a picnic table at 64 for some reason

i believe its there for decoration days for the cemeteries that are in that area...

some of the other cemeteries (bone valley area and lakeshore area and some others) that the Park's boat shuttle visits for the north shore association have picnic tables......

[MMLRAK]

Thanks so much for all the feedback and suggestions!! We’ve done a fair amount of backpacking - Grand Canyon rim to rim, Isle Royale so we are understanding ups/downs. Shooting for no more than 10 miles a day. Looking at some tweaks based on feedback from the thread. Thanks again to all! Really looking forward to experiencing the smokies. Hoping Florence is gentle on the area and anyone out there is safe.