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  1. #1
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    Default Power Tools USFS

    Heard on the radio today that clean up from storms in GA mountains is still far from over. What is the reason power saws are not allowed? Seems silly to me.

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    Not sure about out there, but out here, power tools are not allowed in a Wilderness designated area. Yeah, a bit silly for officials doing cleanup, but them's the rules and the trail crews abide by the rules.

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    One spark from a power tool could touch off a fire, which nobody wants.
    Blackheart

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  5. #5

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    To use a chainsaw on FS land, you need to have the proper training and certification and wear all the required protection gear. It can get complicated as various agencies have different training and certification requirements (National Parks). And as noted, in wilderness areas power tools are banned.
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  6. #6

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    Chainsaws are allowed by permit for those clearing trails but they are limited to who and when...usually NFS rangers clearing trails or the Backcountry Horsemen organization when they go clear trails. There are definitely chainsaws used in the west to clear wilderness trails....those downed trees certainly aren't cut by hand

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    Registered User John B's Avatar
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    I volunteer with the Red River Gorge Trail Crew, are we work in the Daniel Boone National Forest, Kentucky.

    http://www.rrgtc.com/

    When we are in the Clifty Wilderness Area, we are not allowed to use power tools of any type. To clear trails or if a tree has to be felled, old style cross cut saws are the tool of choice, followed by an axe, loppers, hand saws, etc. We are always under the direct supervision of the US Forest Ranger who has jurisdiction in that area.

    In areas outside the wilderness area, we are allowed to use power tools, BUT the person using a chainsaw MUST be certified to do so. Safety first is always the rule. We are required always to wear a hardhat and steel toe boots.

    I will ask next time (2nd Sat of every month), but I think there are a multiplicity of reasons -- noise pollution, using hand tools forces you to think before acting, the self-limiting externalities of hand tools, etc.

    From a trail maintenance crew perspective, I think that most of us prefer hand tools -- very few are certified to use chainsaws, so with crosscut saws, etc they allow us to do more stuff.

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    Sometimes it isn't easy to clear blowdowns with a crosscut.

    RRG1.jpg

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Sometimes it isn't easy to clear blowdowns with a crosscut.

    RRG1.jpg
    Maybe I was wrong...it's just a 4ft diameter tree I assumed was cut with a chainsaw, even in the wilderness but with a permit.

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    Registered User John B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuneElliot View Post
    Maybe I was wrong...it's just a 4ft diameter tree I assumed was cut with a chainsaw, even in the wilderness but with a permit.
    Dune, maybe there are different rules out west to address differences like elevation and terrain. All I know is that we're not allowed to use power tools in wilderness areas no matter the size of the tree or how many blowdowns there are after a big storm. Even our supervising USFS ranger doesn't do it. But then we're rarely more than 5-7 miles hike from at least a forest road access point.

    I'll ask our ranger next weekend and get a better answer.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Dune, maybe there are different rules out west to address differences like elevation and terrain. All I know is that we're not allowed to use power tools in wilderness areas no matter the size of the tree or how many blowdowns there are after a big storm. Even our supervising USFS ranger doesn't do it. But then we're rarely more than 5-7 miles hike from at least a forest road access point.

    I'll ask our ranger next weekend and get a better answer.
    You're probably right, even for out here. I've seen the No Chainsaw signs but thought they were for the general public and had exceptions for trail clearing.

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    Chainsaws can be used in wilderness areas for cleanup if there is a special permit. These are frowned upon, not first choice.

    A section of CT in wilderness area is inundated with blowdowns, same reason.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Chainsaws can be used in wilderness areas for cleanup if there is a special permit. These are frowned upon, not first choice.

    A section of CT in wilderness area is inundated with blowdowns, same reason.
    Okay, thanks for clarifying. There are definitely places I passed in the High Uinta Wilderness that had some serious blowdown areas...couldn't imagine doing any of that by hand...quite the mess

  14. #14

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    Everyone above making great comments. I was hiking in a "NFS Wilderness" area in Arkansas. Some well meaning person had used paint to blaze the trail. The train maintenance team went in and had to like sand off and try and paint match the bark to remove the blazes. In a "Wilderness" area, no power tools, no pack animals, no blazes (cairn's are OK). It is to be pristine (except for the trails).
    For a couple of bucks, get a weird haircut and waste your life away Bryan Adams....
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhjanes View Post
    Everyone above making great comments. I was hiking in a "NFS Wilderness" area in Arkansas. Some well meaning person had used paint to blaze the trail. The train maintenance team went in and had to like sand off and try and paint match the bark to remove the blazes. In a "Wilderness" area, no power tools, no pack animals, no blazes (cairn's are OK). It is to be pristine (except for the trails).
    Pack animals are fine in any wilderness areas here...that's how they get the tools in. No difference between pack and riding animals

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    I understand the need for low impact to the land, but a storm has already caused major impact. A common sense approach to clearing these areas should be implemented.

    I would take a Bobcat and a crew of the best tree men up there and get the job done. Afterwards go in and repair the trail with hand tools.

  17. #17
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by DuneElliot View Post
    Pack animals are fine in any wilderness areas here...that's how they get the tools in. No difference between pack and riding animals
    That's good to know. I had considered buying a goat to haul my gear while I hike.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Roller View Post
    I understand the need for low impact to the land, but a storm has already caused major impact. A common sense approach to clearing these areas should be implemented.

    I would take a Bobcat and a crew of the best tree men up there and get the job done. Afterwards go in and repair the trail with hand tools.
    Rarely need the power of a Bobat...a chainsaw is the only power tool needed most of the time. Why you would ever need a Bobcat in the wilderness is beyond me...all you need to do is to cut a passage through the trees and that only requires a gap of 3-4 ft at most. A Bobcat would destroy trail and vegetation and then add to the cost of trail maintenance by requiring trail repair. The point of the wilderness is to be as impacted by man as little as possible.

  19. #19

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    Years ago we were section hiking out of Kincora Hostel and therefore was there for a few days. The subject of power tools in Wilderness areas came up with Bob as Kincora is adjacent to Laurel Fork Wilderness. Bob told us the no power tools rule only applies during normal conditions. He told us all it takes is the stroke of the pen by the forest district supervisor to sign a form declaring an emergency. Bob had personally been responsible for clean up in Laurel Folk in "emergency" conditions after a storm with power tools. There was a major event in the Whites and Greens several years ago (Hurricane Irene). In the whites, the forest service decided that even though he could sign the emergency declaration he elected not to. The net result was it took years to clear some areas and large amounts of trail work didn't get done when they ran out of time and money to pay employees to do it by hand.

    Having gone through NPS saw training and certification, its a major commitment for a volunteer and the rules that need to be followed make it difficult to actually use the certification. I went through it once and then decided it wasnt something I was going to continue staying certified.
    Last edited by peakbagger; 08-07-2018 at 06:07.

  20. #20
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    Just saying what I would do. I did say go in and repair the trail afterwards. If man stayed off the trail for 5 years you would never know there was a trail.

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