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Thread: Ibuprofen

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    That's 4x the most dosage allowed. That's overdosing on pain meds.
    To be fair, he was at least at 4x the max reasonable dosage of pain by the last day of the Barkley.

  2. #22

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    Say what you will, but I know of a lot of examples of people who only put their issues into remission on a purely meat diet.
    see meatheals.com for compelling stories, many by ex-vegans and ex-vegetarians. Plants actually contain a huge amount of toxins. They don't really want to be eaten, except perhaps for their fruit.

  3. #23

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    One of the things I learned after my hike is that inflammation is the signal the body uses to trigger ligament healing. Use of Motrin might make it feel better, but might actually hinder ligament healing and recovery. Take this with a grain of salt. Different studies have shown different results and different conclusions using different methodologies. Search and read the studies yourself, and decide which ones you think make the most sense to you and your circumstances.

    Minor injuries, probably won't make a lot of difference. But I'd certainly hesitate to try to push through a major ligament tear with Motrin. Two years later, and my knee ligament is finally fully pain free and healed. Zero Motrin.

  4. #24

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    I break out in the hives when taking those pain killers.They can do more harm than good.What's the point in taking them?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    Say what you will, but I know of a lot of examples of people who only put their issues into remission on a purely meat diet.
    see meatheals.com for compelling stories, many by ex-vegans and ex-vegetarians. Plants actually contain a huge amount of toxins. They don't really want to be eaten, except perhaps for their fruit.
    Sounds pretty close to the keto diet which can have great benefits on the trail if a hiker can stick to it and remain keto converted.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    To be fair, he was at least at 4x the max reasonable dosage of pain by the last day of the Barkley.
    ............^^^

  7. #27
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    Not quite on-topic, and possibly only of interest to the very most ounce-conscious, but I've noticed a tremendous difference in the size and weight of 250mg ibuprofen tablet from brand to brand!

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    To be fair, he was at least at 4x the max reasonable dosage of pain by the last day of the Barkley.
    That in a nutshell is justification used by many to abuse drugs.


    More is not always better.


    It's also one of the reasons why one might not want to take Ibuprofen. It has a shorter acting therapeutic effect compared to Naproxen sodium(Alleve). *The pain relieving effect of Naproxen sodium(Alleve) is 8-12 hrs while Ibuprofen is 4-8 hrs. That means less pain pill popping and perhaps less risk for abuse and addiction. It's one of the primary reasons why I choose to include naproxen sodium over Ibuprofen in the FAK. In an age of instant gratification that's primed for abuse short term acting NSAIDs or pain relievers is somewhat analogous to being primed for roller coasting energy levels in the industrialized U.S. food system in how and what we eat. And, it's no wonder why we see Ibuprofen users ignoring user directions habitually popping so many "Vitamin I's" as if it's actually a vitamin.

    In short, OTC pain relievers are a more socially accepted form of OK drugs to abuse particular among middle age and older adults... many of whom are in the habit of ignoring their own use and abuse by attempting to shift the focus onto younger generations, social classes, different drug of choice abusers, etc. What's worse, because NSAIDs, other OTC, and prescription pain killers aren't socially demonized to the extent illicit drugs are in the supposed War on Drugs the dangers they pose and potential for abuse have been less publicly advertised. Only more recently AFTER the extent of the pain pill popping epidemic is being more fully realized(and the state sanctioned pain pill mills have profited massively for decades) are the consequences being slowly publicly exposed more often by authorities on the front lines like EMT's, M.D.'s, hospitals, and LE Agencies, sometimes reluctantly in concern for being ostracized themselves.


    It's analogous to the paid protectionism the tobacco industry enjoyed for decades conspiring with M.D.'s, gov't elites, economists, paid for hire scientific research communities, other large biz entities, judiciaries,...

    Folks concerned with drug abuse on hiking trails should consider the depth of abuse of pain killing drugs which include NSAID's and other "pain killing drugs" that typically fly under the radar because they are thought of more so as anti inflammatories. By far, on any trail ever backpacked or hiked in N America, if made aware of it, the most used DRUGS are pain killers.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    That's 4x the most dosage allowed. That's overdosing on pain meds.
    16 200mg tablets of ibuprofen in one day is 800mg every 6 hours -- the normal daily dosage recommended for severe muscle pain. Less than that (for an average size male) is enough to get some pain relief, but not enough to achieve the muscle relaxation qualities that ibuprofen provides. It's not even close to an overdose.

    Taking that much ibuprofen every day for an extended period can certainly have consequences -- in particular kidney damage. But for a day or three, it's not a problem and not more than a doctor would prescribe for a muscle sprain.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zalman View Post
    16 200mg tablets of ibuprofen in one day is 800mg every 6 hours -- the normal daily dosage recommended for severe muscle pain. Less than that (for an average size male) is enough to get some pain relief, but not enough to achieve the muscle relaxation qualities that ibuprofen provides. It's not even close to an overdose.

    Taking that much ibuprofen every day for an extended period can certainly have consequences -- in particular kidney damage. But for a day or three, it's not a problem and not more than a doctor would prescribe for a muscle sprain.
    Mostly agree with this. For the normal, every day person 16x isn't an overdose by any stretch, but at least one study indicates that almost any amount of ibuprofen is harmful for someone covering ultra distances like Flyin' Brian was. Personally, I would have liked to have seen this study have a larger sample size and try different dosages of ibuprofen, but still something for us to think about.

    I will sometimes take (1) ibuprofen or Tylenol when covering a long distance, but do my best to avoid it.

    https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-ne...e-runners.html

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zalman View Post
    16 200mg tablets of ibuprofen in one day is 800mg every 6 hours -- the normal daily dosage recommended for severe muscle pain. Less than that (for an average size male) is enough to get some pain relief, but not enough to achieve the muscle relaxation qualities that ibuprofen provides. It's not even close to an overdose.

    Taking that much ibuprofen every day for an extended period can certainly have consequences -- in particular kidney damage. But for a day or three, it's not a problem and not more than a doctor would prescribe for a muscle sprain.
    It's a fair point in that we don't know the mg dosage of each of those 16 ibuprofen. They could have been 200 mg each. BUT, I maintain under the advice of a doctor he or she would not recommend taking 16 200 mg pills in a 24 hr period. I maintain most doctors in most pain scenarios would suggest taking UP TO 3200 total daily mgs taking 400 or 800 mg pills taking fewer pills for short durations...not as a daily long term habit always maxing out or exceeding the daily recommended dosage. Let's not bury our heads in the sand ignoring the U.S. culture promotes more consumption, a more is better mindset.

  12. #32

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    On the PCT, I avoided IB for CA and OR, trying to save my kidneys and help myself recover. Once I hit WA with 500 miles to go, I started doing 800mg to grind out the last 4 weeks. It felt amazing, but still glad I paced myself.

  13. #33

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    I'm not a vegan or vegetarian. And I did eat LOTS of junk food on the AT which I avoid at home.

    But...

    Ive been following Aria Zoner for a few years and he has some really good insight to trail nutrition.

    Look up the wholefoodshiker

    Took 3 ibuprofen after falling down Madison and thought I broke a rib. No other vitamin i taken on the AT.

    Turmeric curcumin supplement seemed to help.

    Also started some light yoga and that helped

    I'm in the midst of "dialing in" my food bag now. Seriously, its the most important thing in your pack.

    Im becoming ALOT more interested in nutrition nowadays. Itll help keep me backpacking later in life

    Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

  14. #34
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    Before I left for my AT thru hike I had a physical by my doctor. I mentioned I had pain in my elbow and based on that he diagnosed it as "tennis elbow". When I told him I was going to hike the AT he prescribed a 90 day supply of 500 mg Naproxen for my elbow and any other aches and pains that may arise during my hike. I carried about 30 of the Naproxen along with 200 mg Ibuprofen. I rarely took the Naproxen but near the end of my hike I took a daily 200mg of Ibuprofen. A year or two after my hike I was diagnosed with a hiatal hernia. Now I am not saying the Ibuprofen caused the hiatal hernia but it makes me wonder. I confess that I was pretty ignorant of the side effects of NSAID's before and during my hike. I was under the impression that ingesting NSAID's was part of the long distance hiking culture. Now I rarely take Ibuprofen being that I am considered high risk since I am over 60 and suffering from the hiatal hernia.
    More walking, less talking.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violent Green View Post
    Mostly agree with this. For the normal, every day person 16x isn't an overdose by any stretch, but at least one study indicates that almost any amount of ibuprofen is harmful for someone covering ultra distances like Flyin' Brian was. Personally, I would have liked to have seen this study have a larger sample size and try different dosages of ibuprofen, but still something for us to think about.

    I will sometimes take (1) ibuprofen or Tylenol when covering a long distance, but do my best to avoid it.

    https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-ne...e-runners.html
    Interesting article. Study was done on people competing in 7 day 155 mile ultra marathons. The test subjects took 400 mg ( 2 OTC tabs) every 4 hours. To quote the article -----

    This study should cause endurance athletes and distance runners pause before taking ibuprofen while competing, but does not infer that the average athlete would necessarily face similar effects from taking the drug, Lipman said.
    “I would generalize to say, yes, caution should be warranted taking ibuprofen during long distance runs or other endurance sports events,” he said. “But I would not push that caution to the general lay population. This study’s conclusions are for endurance athletes.”


    I guess that means 1-2 ibuprofen a day for a thru hiker probably is nothing to worry about. What was more eye opening about the study is how many of the athletes suffered from acute kidney injury.

    To quote the article --- Results showed that about 39 of the 89 participants had acute kidney injury at the end of the 50-mile section of the race. There was an 18 percent higher rate of kidney injury among those who took the drug compared to those who didn’t, the study found.

    That means a large number of athletes suffered from acute kidney injury who DID NOT take ibuprofen. Staying hydrated is likely more important to your health than taking 1-2 ibuprofen a day.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  16. #36
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    Currently our tests for acute kidney injury have difficulty separating apparent injury caused by simple dehydration from a marathon (which resolves completely) and more permanent injury; in the future we will likely have better tests. In the meanwhile everyone should use caution in taking medications like ibuprofen and naproxen, it's unclear who will suffer injury. The older you are, and the more medical conditions you have (high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease), the more careful you need to be.

  17. #37

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    “I would generalize to say, yes, caution should be warranted taking ibuprofen during long distance runs or other endurance sports events,” he said. “But I would not push that caution to the general lay population. This study’s conclusions are for endurance athletes.”

    Thru hiking is an endurance event. The general lay population doesn't go on thru hikes/LD hikes.

  18. #38

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    “Studies show that for most people, this acute kidney injury is usually resolved within a day or two after the race,” he said. “However, numbers of runners have ended up being hospitalized from renal failure.”
    Two years ago, an athlete participating in the Boulder Ironman triathlon died three days later due to kidney failure caused by dehydration and rhabdomyolysis associated with excessive exercise. He was 40 years old.
    “We hypothesized that we were going to say ibuprofen is safe,” said Lipman, an endurance runner himself who regularly used the pain reliever during races. “We thought we’d be able to say ‘Go forth and run and have no pain.’
    “I felt surprised and a little shocked that it really is as bad for you as we found,” said Lipman, who has now switched to using acetaminophen, such as Tylenol, for pain relief and taking ice baths after racing.

    That isn't Lipman giving ibuprofen a pass.



    Lipman

  19. #39

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    It is not just dehydration. It's a combination of that plus rhabdomyolysis with ibuprofen use increasing the risk of acute kidney damage.

    Acute kidney injury is common in these athletes due to the high rates of dehydration that cause reduced blood flow and rhabdomyolysis — a breakdown of muscle tissue that leads to the release of muscle fiber contents into the blood, which is harmful to the kidney and often causes kidney damage, Lipman said. In fact, acute kidney injury has been recorded in 34 to 85 percent of all ultramarathoners, the study said.

    This study shows that adding ibuprofen into this mix further increases the danger of kidney damage, Lipman said.


    The study was based on a snapshot(very short term). What the article doesn't say, very likely because it wasn't done, was knowing more fully the drug usage histories, medical and health condition pre and post study of the runners.


    Of the 89 participants 47% were given ibuprofen 53% were given a placebo. 39 of the 89 participants(44%) had acute kidney injury at the end of the 50-mile section of the race. There was an 18 percent higher rate of kidney injury among those who took the drug compared to those who didn’t.

  20. #40

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    Check out kidney cancer and ibuprofen , my husband took it for years to deal with knee pain and pain from cancer ( non hod. lymphoma ) in 2008. No one told him about the chance of kidney cancer from the use . We found out a year ago that he had kidney cancer that had gone to his brain and spine . There is not a doubt in me that his ibuprofen use caused it . I tell everyone now this med is not anything to use without a lot of thought about what can happen to your body in the long term , please be careful .

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