One woman - rescued TWICE on the AT...

[Heliotrope]

I was out on a section hike last week from Monson to Stratton. I am fairly certain we met this young woman based on the photo and the timing of her hike. She camped with us at Bald mountain pond. And had fallen ill in the 100 mile wilderness the week before. She seemed like a delicate soul. My impression was that she was afraid of being alone in the woods and was lamenting the lack of company. It was curious that she placed her tent so close to ours.

I believe there is a tendency to get injured when there is an underlying fear working on your mind. Perhaps she wanted an excuse to get off trail. I think she needed to know that she was safe. Probably to inexperienced in hiking and life to embark on a solo thru hike.


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[Venchka]

... yet secretly longed to complete a thru hike alone to hopefully cure her fears.
Makes sense. I hope she gains confidence. Otherwise her fear is feeding on itself. Sad.
Wayne

[gpburdelljr]

I hope some of the commenters never serve on a jury, where you are supposed to deal with the facts and not speculation.

[gracebowen]

I gotta say if I knew there was a hefty bill for SAR I'd be very unlikely to call to my own detriment.

I have a medical issue that occasionally makes me go to the ER. As a vet treatment at aVA facility is free. The ambulance to get there I'm not sure so I usually drive myself.

Got chewed out more than once for driving in that condition.

Disclaimer. Only once did I feel unsafe to drive. I started getting worried about a mile from the hospital. Once I got there I needed assistance to get from parking lot inside.

Every other time I felt safe driving.

[Time Zone]

I hope some of the commenters never serve on a jury, where you are supposed to deal with the facts and not speculation.

The demand for certainty is one which is natural to man, but is nevertheless an intellectual vice. ... But so long as men are not trained to withhold judgment in the absence of evidence, they will be led astray by cocksure prophets, and it is likely that their leaders will be either ignorant fanatics or dishonest charlatans. To endure uncertainty is difficult, but so are most of the other virtues. - Bertrand Russell

[Sarcasm the elf]

The demand for certainty is one which is natural to man, but is nevertheless an intellectual vice. ... But so long as men are not trained to withhold judgment in the absence of evidence, they will be led astray by cocksure prophets, and it is likely that their leaders will be either ignorant fanatics or dishonest charlatans. To endure uncertainty is difficult, but so are most of the other virtues. - Bertrand Russell

Let me translate that into millenial for you:

[tdoczi]

Let me translate that into millenial for you:

ehh, as someone who is generally a little bit older than whats considered a millenial i'll counter with we often makes things more complicated than they are to excuse our own failings.

[DownYonder]

Interesting: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/AazRWI...8TOOtrtOybWW0/

[Puddlefish]

I'm seeing a bunch of internet know it alls, projecting their own beliefs on this situation, and demonstrating a complete lack of interest for details specific her situation, and being unwilling to share their knowledge with those they deem unworthy. Theories range from she's a weak snowflake indicative of her entire generation, to she was unprepared, to I have no idea but she did something wrong and it's entirely her fault for being an idiot, to I'm concerned about my taxpayer dollars being wasted on someone unworthy, to I don't really care if I live or die myself, but she should be more like me. Out on the trail, I don't believe for a second that one of you, having met her and hiked alongside her for an hour, or a day would have demonstrated this complete lack of empathy.

There's nothing wrong with judging her, if you know maybe a bit about her situation, if you know a bit of her background. It's fine to have theories, this is the internet, not the courtroom, but maybe you could withhold the disdainful judgement. The Bertrand Russell quote talks about the balance between the brainless demand for certainty and the brainless withholding of judgement. What some of you are missing is the balance in this quote.

Fine, you're certain that where there's smoke there's fire. How about demonstrating a tiny bit of community spirit, presenting your theory on what you think she did wrong, and give some good old fashioned practical hiker advice, instead of simply tearing her down in a weird attempt to demonstrate your own superiority.

Act like a community of supportive hikers, not like a bunch of bitter old men who are pissed off that someone unworthy is having a difficult time joining our fellowship. Do you really want to be part of a hiker hate community, where we all gather and mock hikers for not being as smart and worthy as we are?

My advice to her, is simply to go see a doctor before going back out on the trail, describe the situation and maybe have some tests run. If it's a heat/hydration problem, maybe stop for an hour or so mid day. I know that most of you have far more hiking experience in a vast range of conditions than I do. Help me out here and use that experience for good.

Edited a few times for grammar.

[tdoczi]

I know that most of you have far more hiking experience in a vast range of conditions than I do. Help me out here and use that experience for good.

sure i'll help- whatever it is/was wrong it would the height of irresponsible and not behavior any of us should condone for her to go back out into the woods to try again with the attitude that if she again feels unwell she can just call for a rescue again.

hows that?

[Puddlefish]

sure i'll help- whatever it is/was wrong it would the height of irresponsible and not behavior any of us should condone for her to go back out into the woods to try again with the attitude that if she again feels unwell she can just call for a rescue again.

hows that?

That was actually slightly better than the crap being thrown up before. A bit judgy of you to believe it's an attitude problem, but that's just you being you.

[Malto]

Called for help.
Called for help again.
Cell phones at fault?
Perhaps the SAR team could make an evaluation and decide if the person actually needed assistance?
Conversely, we don’t have any facts and shouldn’t jump to conclusions.
Do stories like this come from the Rockies? I’m genuinely curious. Perhaps people along the Continental Divide are better prepared, self reliant and often lack cell coverage long before they reach the trailhead.
Once again I would like to know the whole story.
Be safe Y’all!
Wayne

Unfortunately even sillier stories have been happening out west.
1) Guy hits spot on Whitney Approach trail. Rescuers come. He won't go to the hospital, he only wanted a ride to his car. They made him walk out.
2) Women just north of I-80 on the PCT in mid-May. Has phone apps, knows exactly where she is, has plenty of food and is within a couple hundred yards of a closed forest service road. Posts out on Facebook that she's scared. Ends up calling the rangers to pick her up on that closed road. Is hailed as an epic adventurer by the facey groupies.
3) Two hikers last year, late season, north of Stevens Pass. Struggled in prior section, Knows a major storm is coming, tells family that they will hit their spot button if they get in trouble. Snow hits, loses phone battery and all ability to navigate. Presses spot and rescuers snatch them a couple of days later.

I believe all three of cases should have the bills sent to the irresponcpsible people involved. With the plethora of information making everyone an epic adventurer combined with the instant gratification of pushing the button and get a rescue Uber ride will make these sad stories more commonplace. Plus, lets not forget Johnies mommy who get on Facebook and says Johnie must be in trouble, "He always messages me every night as he is snuggling with his teddy bear. There must be something wrong." I would love to know the increase in calls to S&R from Johns's mommy.

[Tipi Walter]

Sure are a lot of psychics taking part in this discussion. It’s the only way to explain the detailed conclusions being drawn from one sparse article.

Then again, there are some of us who are using her plight to discuss in general the tendency to call out for help when other alternatives could be available. It's a discussion not only of her but of backcountry rescues in general.

[Dogwood]

Two of the best things I took from the article - 1) She was safely rescued. That's good! She couldn't walk out on her own. If they carried her out in a gurney that's typically telling of her medical condition. 2) Second best part of the article that no one posting failed to mention:

The warden service offered the following tips for hikers:
n Always tell a responsible person where you are going, where you will park, what route you will take and what time you will be back;
n Bring enough supplies to spend the night;
n Sign every sign-in book you pass, with the date and time;
n Do not overestimate your abilities or speed on the trail;
n Have a good communication plan while in often poor cellphone coverage areas.

I guess everyone is so evolved that they could never get into a situation because they follow these tips, always making the right decisions?

We tend towards seeing ourselves in a higher light than we are.

I've come perilously close to dying several times as a backpacker because of my own bad decisions. And, I'm not referring to AT road crossings. It's hard to definitively say what this woman personally experienced.

I will say over reliance on assistance and communication through electronic connectivity is going to lead to fatalities and more S&R efforts.

[Venchka]

Unfortunately even sillier stories have been happening out west.
1) Guy hits spot on Whitney Approach trail. Rescuers come. He won't go to the hospital, he only wanted a ride to his car. They made him walk out.
2) Women just north of I-80 on the PCT in mid-May. Has phone apps, knows exactly where she is, has plenty of food and is within a couple hundred yards of a closed forest service road. Posts out on Facebook that she's scared. Ends up calling the rangers to pick her up on that closed road. Is hailed as an epic adventurer by the facey groupies.
3) Two hikers last year, late season, north of Stevens Pass. Struggled in prior section, Knows a major storm is coming, tells family that they will hit their spot button if they get in trouble. Snow hits, loses phone battery and all ability to navigate. Presses spot and rescuers snatch them a couple of days later.

I believe all three of cases should have the bills sent to the irresponcpsible people involved. With the plethora of information making everyone an epic adventurer combined with the instant gratification of pushing the button and get a rescue Uber ride will make these sad stories more commonplace. Plus, lets not forget Johnies mommy who get on Facebook and says Johnie must be in trouble, "He always messages me every night as he is snuggling with his teddy bear. There must be something wrong." I would love to know the increase in calls to S&R from Johns's mommy.

Amen! Brother!
I pray it's not me. Meanwhile there have been cases in recent memory where a SPOT/INREACH/PLB would have saved a life. Otter on the CDT outside Chama, NM comes to mind.
Be safe Y'all!
Wayne

[Time Zone]

Then again, there are some of us who are using her plight to discuss in general the tendency to call out for help when other alternatives could be available. It's a discussion not only of her but of backcountry rescues in general.

There's definitely a valid discussion to be had around that, but there's more than a little specific victim-blaming here well before the facts are in. There's some virtue-signaling too, which is ironic since it seems to come from a generation (me included) that tends to be quick to decry it among millennials.

It may well be too easy these days to call for rescue, and no doubt people vary in how quickly they're willing to use that ability. Without PLBs and so forth, people on average would probably be more careful. But I'm not ready to throw this young woman under the bus without the facts of her situation. Even then, how helpful is that? Rangers and SAR don't need me to get filled with indignation on their behalf. They can stand up for themselves, if it's even appropriate here. Which remains to be seen.

[FreeGoldRush]

I have a general question regarding rescues.....who pays for the expenses. Is the evacuee billed for all expenses or are these public services? Does this vary by locality? @StarChild

In many cases a rescue simply replaces training. Also keep in mind that most of the people doing this stuff love to do it. So the true net cost is kinda hard to calculate IMO. I do not believe some of the crazy high estimates. Even if a helicopter is used it is important to realize that it might have been flying anyway on that particular day. Aircraft and crew don't just sit in a garage until they are needed. It doesn't work that way.

[MuddyWaters]

In many cases a rescue simply replaces training. Also keep in mind that most of the people doing this stuff love to do it. So the true net cost is kinda hard to calculate IMO. I do not believe some of the crazy high estimates. Even if a helicopter is used it is important to realize that it might have been flying anyway on that particular day. Aircraft and crew don't just sit in a garage until they are needed. It doesn't work that way.

Localities that depend on outdoor tourism for income have no desire to charge for SAR. But in recent years the proliferation of unprepared people calling for help has stretched budgets so that it has become necessary to charge negligent people in some areas.

Air ambulance is a different story. Those are private ambulance services, and bill up to $900 /minute from time the bird lifts off. Receiving $15,000- 50,000 bills is not uncommon. Better have insurance that covers it. The important thing to know....is insurance will only cover to nearest transfer point if not life threatening. An air ambulance has to drop you at closest trailhead/ground ambulance for a broken leg, or you will be on hook for every minute past that. The ambulance operators will ask you where to go...if you tell them wrong....its extremely costly.

My brother got a bill for $400,000 for an air ambulance trip for his wife once. They wrote it off because she died.

[LucyInColor]

I'm planning a two week solo hike & bought an inReach with the SOS button because, well, I'll be alone & might need to be rescued. Then I wondered what was enough of an emergency to press the SOS button? A snake bite? Hmmm. Was it poisonous? I don't know. What did it look like? I don't remember, I was running for my life. Is that ankle swollen? Yeah, maybe. How long should I wait to decide? Am I feeling sick? I don't know, scared though. What will it cost if I press the SOS button in one of the three states I'll be in? So...I bought insurance to pay the cavalry who might take me to a trail head where my health insurance will pick up the tab. I hope. But back to the original question. What is enough of an emergency to press that SOS button?

[Emerson Bigills]

Lots of questions unanswered in this one. I would say she is a slow learner.