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  1. #1
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    Default Arc Haul Zip load limit -- really

    I have been considering the ZPacks Arc Haul Zip, and curious to hear from others about their own experience and assessment of how well it carries. According to ZPacks, it has a 40lb max limit, but I know full well that there is a big difference between how much a pack *can* carry and how much you can *comfortably* carry in it.*


    My current shoulder-season base weight (which can take me down as low as mid-teen night temps) is just under 22lbs. Once I add a couple of liters of water, that jumps up to nearly 27lbs...then adding food and other consumables, it's possible my total pack weight could end up as high as 35lbs (or more?! <gasp!> )


    While I understand that there is a certain amount of subjectivity here, my question is, in your experience, can the Arc Haul Zip still be comfortable carrying 35lbs?


    Thanks for any info or insights.
    fortis fortuna adjuvat

  2. #2

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    I've been thinking of buying an Arc Haul but, after watching this video, I'm not so sure. I think this guy loaded it to that 35lb range and the pack had multiple failures. The shoulder straps look like a joke! I'm considering a Hyperlite Mountain Gear Southwest 3400 instead.

    https://youtu.be/cca3AN5Djf0

    Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

  3. #3

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    I loved my Arc Haul but I have recently had a couple of failures on it. ZPacks fixed one by sending me the parts but the other is unfixable sadly (or could be fixed if I want to pay and send it in). The shoulder straps are comfortable (mine shrank and warped in the heat after being in a hot vehicle while I was traveling...the second failure) but I generally go for a slightly longer torso length and have pretty much zero weight on my shoulders as I find that tiring...they are just there to stabilize the pack for me.

    I have had it loaded close to 30lbs for a 7 day trip and it was still pretty decent at that weight. I don't think I'd want to go any heavier than 30lbs, personally, for comfort.

  4. #4
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    I have not used a zpacks pack personally- I'm sure others can subjectively chime in. All I can offer is some objective views on packs generally.

    Speaking generally:
    Roughly 2/3 of max load is a good measure of comfortable carry load.
    Assuming the pack fits you and your packing style well.

    Something many don't consider with the ventilated models... is that you are pushing the load further out from your center of gravity. You need a pretty robust suspension system to overcome that.
    Some poo-poo that... but a 10" deep pack pushed several inches off your back is a decent bit of difference. That's coming from somebody who is happy to pick up an extra 8-12 ounces of an Osprey pack to get it off my back in peak heat when my load is the lowest. And elected to get that Exos over the Arc series.

    Personal opinion- if you're carrying 80% of the max load 80% of the time- you should consider a more robust pack.
    Packs are not as overbuilt as they used to be, so the main difference is suspension. Provided features and do-dads are not added just to add them.

    Not a bad rule of thumb:
    1lb pack= 10lb base+10max (frameless)
    2lb pack= 20lb base+10 max (Light stay/frame- some padding)
    3lb pack= 30lb base+10 max (wire frame or other frame components and increased padding)

    For a basic striped down single main compartment pack with a few basic features (water bottle pockets, mesh back pocket, basic hip belt).
    Extra pockets and features add weight.

    With cuben packs... tearout and reinforcement is a bigger deal than with other fabrics. So establishing a higher max load for Joe was probably a bigger deal than others.
    But your skepticism is valid as a result as that's likely what it can handle without literally bursting at the seams.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Personal opinion- if you're carrying 80% of the max load 80% of the time- you should consider a more robust pack.
    This is a very good and important reminder for me. Thank you.
    fortis fortuna adjuvat

  6. #6
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoSpirits View Post
    This is a very good and important reminder for me. Thank you.
    Yar

    Two other friendly reminders:
    Buying new, replacing or upgrading; the last piece of gear you buy should be the pack. Can't buy the container until you know the contents.

    Bad shoes and bad packs end ruin more hikes than anything else.
    Next comes bad sleep and crotch rot.

  7. #7
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    Oh yes -- I have learned those lessons. (Well, maybe not the crotch rot...)

    Over the last few years, I have steadily reduced the weight and sheer volume of gear to be packed, and now I'm thinking about finding a lighter pack to put it in. Right now I have a Granite Gear Nimbus Trace Access 60. It's a decent pack, but I'm looking around at other options.
    fortis fortuna adjuvat

  8. #8
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    I will vouch for the capabilities of the ULA CATALYST with a recommended max. load of 40 pounds and comfortable carry of 35 pounds, plus or minus, up to 12,100’ in Colorado. Very sturdy. Bear can friendly. Budget friendly.
    Wayne

  9. #9
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoSpirits View Post
    Oh yes -- I have learned those lessons. (Well, maybe not the crotch rot...)

    Over the last few years, I have steadily reduced the weight and sheer volume of gear to be packed, and now I'm thinking about finding a lighter pack to put it in. Right now I have a Granite Gear Nimbus Trace Access 60. It's a decent pack, but I'm looking around at other options.
    Sounds like one more stepping stone is needed...
    Hyperlight makes some good packs intended to haul loads in the cuben family.
    Gossamer Gear and ULA are also great options for mid-volume, mid-weight loads.

    Cuben is not quite the mystery miracle it used to be. Nylons have gotten lighter and Cuben has gotten heavier. On the extreme side... still lighter.
    But I'd rather dump cuben money into a big payoff like a tarp or shelter than a pack. Especially considering some of the drawbacks inherent in the material.

    Osprey and Gregory both make good packs that can be tried on in person for an affordable price at a reasonable weight.
    Not everyone is a fan, but the advantage of REI remains something off the shelf and a year to return/exchange.
    Packs and shoes are tough mail order products. A cottage vendor requires a very educated customer to really make packs work.
    That customer exists, but if you are not that customer it can be a frustrating road to go down.

    The very clear monopoly cottage guys once had on light packs has faded as well.
    There are some products that really make sense in a cottage setting.
    And some things (like custom meshes, molded foams, specialized frame components) that are hard to do without mainstream scale and manufacturing behind you.

  10. #10

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    "While I understand that there is a certain amount of subjectivity here, my question is, in your experience, can the Arc Haul Zip still be comfortable carrying 35lbs?" There certainly is lots of subjectivity. I see little issue for an Arc Blast or Arc Haul holding up to 35 lbs.


    Dont make the mistake of referring to comfortability of a backpack as if it exists separate from the user. Think of a backpack, and your entire kit, as something you're married. You're in a symbiotic relationship with it. How YOU use it(like pack it, the bulk of your gear - NOT just the wt, etc) are key components in overall
    comfortability.


    "
    ...but I know full well that there is a big difference between how much a pack *can* carry and how much you can *comfortably* carry in it." Don't take you out of the comfortability question.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post

    Buying new, replacing or upgrading; the last piece of gear you buy should be the pack. Can't buy the container until you know the contents...

    I have a hard time listening to people offering backpack advice and coming to critical conclusions post mortem who embark on LD hikes, like in the vid Rex Clifton shared of a PCT hiker, that never packed his new backpack before starting the hike.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Sounds like one more stepping stone is needed...
    Hyperlight makes some good packs intended to haul loads in the cuben family.
    Gossamer Gear and ULA are also great options for mid-volume, mid-weight loads.

    Cuben is not quite the mystery miracle it used to be. Nylons have gotten lighter and Cuben has gotten heavier. On the extreme side... still lighter.
    But I'd rather dump cuben money into a big payoff like a tarp or shelter than a pack. Especially considering some of the drawbacks inherent in the material.

    Osprey and Gregory both make good packs that can be tried on in person for an affordable price at a reasonable weight.
    Not everyone is a fan, but the advantage of REI remains something off the shelf and a year to return/exchange.
    Packs and shoes are tough mail order products. A cottage vendor requires a very educated customer to really make packs work.
    That customer exists, but if you are not that customer it can be a frustrating road to go down.

    The very clear monopoly cottage guys once had on light packs has faded as well.
    There are some products that really make sense in a cottage setting.
    And some things (like custom meshes, molded foams, specialized frame components) that are hard to do without mainstream scale and manufacturing behind you.
    This is some good advice here. While I loved my Arc Haul while it lasted and found it comfortable and loved the design in general BUT I can't afford the price or wait time for a new pack with the second failure on mine especially as mine hasn't seen more than half a dozen backpacking trips. I have ended up going with a slightly sturdier Osprey Aura as I love the fit (almost don't know the pack is there) and can get the weight of the pack close to the Arc Haul with how I had it configured.

  13. #13
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    I have a hard time listening to people offering backpack advice and coming to critical conclusions post mortem who embark on LD hikes, like in the vid Rex Clifton shared of a PCT hiker, that never packed his new backpack before starting the hike.
    Opinions, elbows, rectums, ....and youtube videos

    Right up there with the shoe reviews citing blisters or black toe after a 20+ mile day in a shoe that never fit them in the first place.

  14. #14

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    Something many don't consider with the ventilated models... is that you are pushing the load further out from your center of gravity. You need a pretty robust suspension system to overcome that.


    The Arc series packs have a robust enough suspension system when packed and fitted correctly used within the manufacturer's specs. See how Joe packs his Arc Haul? He has little wt, probably less than 8 oz in a Dyneema Composite tarp, in the rear shovel pocket. I'd strongly guess that he has it packed with his biggest wt close to his back inside the main volume compartment. His frame AND THE WAY HE'S USING IT is working well to keep most of the wt on his hips. I dont notice undue strain pulling on his shoulders. Some of the same crossover considerations can be said for frameless packs.

    http://www.zpacks.com/backpacks/arc_haul.shtml


    BTW I take the Arc haul to 40 lbs on long heavier kit winter trips with maybe the first two nights between 40-45 lbs(food).

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    I have a hard time listening to people offering backpack advice and coming to critical conclusions post mortem who embark on LD hikes, like in the vid Rex Clifton shared of a PCT hiker, that never packed his new backpack before starting the hike.
    I agree with your criticism regarding the guy who started a LDH without first trying out the pack on a few test runs. That is just commom sense. However, that does not make up for the fact that the pack fell apart less than halfway through his hike. Zpacks claims their stuff will last through one thru hike. With regards to the Arc series packs, this does not seem to be the case. One further note, I have personal experience with Zpacks customer service, and can confirm that it sucks. No way to call or get in touch other than email and the soonest I have ever heard back from them is one week, even though I headed the message as urgent.

    Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Opinions, elbows, rectums, ....and youtube videos

    Right up there with the shoe reviews citing blisters or black toe after a 20+ mile day in a shoe that never fit them in the first place.
    It was the socks, the weather, the sand,....every thing but ourselves.

    Inappropriate packs, shoes, sleep crotch rot and long hair. Tuck that in Hippie Bill unless you'll get it caught on a branch ending your hike needing a chiropractor.

  17. #17
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuneElliot View Post
    This is some good advice here. While I loved my Arc Haul while it lasted and found it comfortable and loved the design in general BUT I can't afford the price or wait time for a new pack with the second failure on mine especially as mine hasn't seen more than half a dozen backpacking trips. I have ended up going with a slightly sturdier Osprey Aura as I love the fit (almost don't know the pack is there) and can get the weight of the pack close to the Arc Haul with how I had it configured.
    Failures suck. No matter how great the guarantee, the failures never ever seem to occur in the parking lot.
    On a critical item like a pack, being able to swap it out easily and quickly is a big help. Not having to worry about it is a bigger help.

    There is plenty of stuff you can repair or deal with in the field but most are not equipped to repair a pack failure in cuben as it's usually more than a popped stitch or broken buckle.
    If you can patch a tarp or shelter... you can patch a cuben or a nylon one. But cuben in packs requires special knowledge, equipment and supplies most do not posses.

    And once you're trying to reinforce, bulk up, or redesign cuben for loads much past 25lbs... you're not really ahead of the game any longer when you can get pretty bad ass traditional fabrics that can be repaired with simple needle and thread. 4 ounce per yard Hybrid-CF with added reinforcements and bonded seams looks really silly to me next to simply sewn 5 oz 210 robic gridstop. (ULA pack fabric)

    I can build a bridge hammock that holds my 225lb butt standing on one foot without failing out of 1.7 ounce Robic nylon... Don't really see much reason I can't build a pack out of it too. Nor why a 110D, 3 ounce fabric like Gossamer gear uses is much of ding compared to a 2 oz cuben. Nor why I'd want to pay labor for someone to glue, bond, and sew when nylon feeds through the sewing machine in one pass.

    I'm a big fan of SUL and cottage stuff... but when you can piece together 10-15lb kits with pretty bomber off the shelf stuff it gets harder every year to argue against going that route for a casual trip or for someone who doesn't know exactly what they want. A speed hike or limit pushing trip... go for it. But a casual trip with no particular reason to push... why give yourself a headache.

    Save your bucks for a sweet pad and quilt... a cuben tarp... or even for a trip

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Failures suck. No matter how great the guarantee, the failures never ever seem to occur in the parking lot.
    On a critical item like a pack, being able to swap it out easily and quickly is a big help. Not having to worry about it is a bigger help.

    There is plenty of stuff you can repair or deal with in the field but most are not equipped to repair a pack failure in cuben as it's usually more than a popped stitch or broken buckle.
    If you can patch a tarp or shelter... you can patch a cuben or a nylon one. But cuben in packs requires special knowledge, equipment and supplies most do not posses.

    And once you're trying to reinforce, bulk up, or redesign cuben for loads much past 25lbs... you're not really ahead of the game any longer when you can get pretty bad ass traditional fabrics that can be repaired with simple needle and thread. 4 ounce per yard Hybrid-CF with added reinforcements and bonded seams looks really silly to me next to simply sewn 5 oz 210 robic gridstop. (ULA pack fabric)

    I can build a bridge hammock that holds my 225lb butt standing on one foot without failing out of 1.7 ounce Robic nylon... Don't really see much reason I can't build a pack out of it too. Nor why a 110D, 3 ounce fabric like Gossamer gear uses is much of ding compared to a 2 oz cuben. Nor why I'd want to pay labor for someone to glue, bond, and sew when nylon feeds through the sewing machine in one pass.

    I'm a big fan of SUL and cottage stuff... but when you can piece together 10-15lb kits with pretty bomber off the shelf stuff it gets harder every year to argue against going that route for a casual trip or for someone who doesn't know exactly what they want. A speed hike or limit pushing trip... go for it. But a casual trip with no particular reason to push... why give yourself a headache.

    Save your bucks for a sweet pad and quilt... a cuben tarp... or even for a trip
    This is one of the reasons I decided to go with Osprey this time around instead of buying another Arc pack...it may be another 20oz more in weight after being stripped down but it carries better, even to the point that I don't notice the pack itself at all (my legs notice the weight I'm carrying, but not my shoulders or hips).

  19. #19
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Something many don't consider with the ventilated models... is that you are pushing the load further out from your center of gravity. You need a pretty robust suspension system to overcome that.


    The Arc series packs have a robust enough suspension system when packed and fitted correctly used within the manufacturer's specs. See how Joe packs his Arc Haul? He has little wt, probably less than 8 oz in a Dyneema Composite tarp, in the rear shovel pocket. I'd strongly guess that he has it packed with his biggest wt close to his back inside the main volume compartment. His frame AND THE WAY HE'S USING IT is working well to keep most of the wt on his hips. I dont notice undue strain pulling on his shoulders. Some of the same crossover considerations can be said for frameless packs.

    http://www.zpacks.com/backpacks/arc_haul.shtml


    BTW I take the Arc haul to 40 lbs on long heavier kit winter trips with maybe the first two nights between 40-45 lbs(food).
    It's hard enough teaching someone how to pack a traditional pack or communicating the importance of how to carry that load as is.
    Add in the fancy turtle shell tricks and that problem compounds.

    In the wrong hands Zpacks in general and the arc series in particular has a high propensity for user error and several caveats need to be added.

    I'm not saying that Osprey did it right and Joe did it wrong.
    But I am saying that Osprey did a much better job fool proofing it for the general public.

    More often than not the packs they sell fall into the 'if you're asking the question then the answer is no' category.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Clifton View Post
    I agree with your criticism regarding the guy who started a LDH without first trying out the pack on a few test runs. That is just commom sense. However, that does not make up for the fact that the pack fell apart less than halfway through his hike. Zpacks claims their stuff will last through one thru hike. With regards to the Arc series packs, this does not seem to be the case. One further note, I have personal experience with Zpacks customer service, and can confirm that it sucks. No way to call or get in touch other than email and the soonest I have ever heard back from them is one week, even though I headed the message as urgent.

    Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk
    I dont buy the problems we experience always just fall out of the sky happening to us.


    Hmm. I have had positive customer service experiences with Zpacks answering in a timely manner. It has never taken a week. ALTHOUGH, when Joe was more hands on with answering Emails I thought he was a little more on pt with providing details than "Redbeard." But I can be BPL gear wonk anal about details. Both have always gotten back to me within two days despite me never including I needed info or assistance ASAP other than once. That's me preparing ahead. My decisions play into what I reap. I think that's reasonable for Customer Service considering they are workshop cottage and how busy they can be. In fact, both Joe and "Redbeard" assisted me over and above when 1) I was shipped too few cord locs overnighting the missing ones. ZPacks lost money BUT they strengthened ties to a customer 2) answering how to proceed when their delivered package was stolen off the doorstep. 3) swapping out a return ASAP

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