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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrogLevel View Post
    Could rangers or ridge runners or forest service rangers effectively ticket hikers and campers for not hanging or storing food properly? Maybe this is something that needs to start happening.
    Not enough rangers.

    What is possible today, absolutely, is to require all persons on a reservation to be named , (not just leader), and all older than 12, to pass a 10 minute online training course prior to even accepting a permit request. This could happen seamlessly and automatically.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrogLevel View Post
    Could rangers or ridge runners or forest service rangers effectively ticket hikers and campers for not hanging or storing food properly? Maybe this is something that needs to start happening.


    rangers can.....ridgerunners cannot (they have no enforcement powers..........they can only talk to the people and/or call in to a ranger via a radio)

  3. #23
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    What is possible today, absolutely, is to require all persons on a reservation to be named , (not just leader), and all older than 12, to pass a 10 minute online training course prior to even accepting a permit request. This could happen seamlessly and automatically.


    this still will not help....

    for example---my work, about every 4 months or so, makes us watch and do a quiz on "phishing" and yet we always have people that will go to fraudulent sites and download stuff....

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    this still will not help....

    for example---my work, about every 4 months or so, makes us watch and do a quiz on "phishing" and yet we always have people that will go to fraudulent sites and download stuff....
    ....but it does work better than no training at all...

    Yeah, we get same training
    I like the password security training especially
    Its ridiculously complex,
    I know IT is just doing there job
    But they rejected fingerprint scanners as not being secure

    How secure is the long password list i have under my mousepad?
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 07-13-2018 at 17:55.

  5. #25
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    ..but it does work better than no training at all...


    how 'bout in person training?

    the Park could go back to the way they used to do it (as told to me by a ranger as i was not in this area at the time) where backpackers had to have their gear looked at and make sure it met the conditions of the trip...........along with going over logistics....

    the ranger told me they used to do it at a building near the sugarlands visitors center and the nickname for that building was "the sugar shack"..

  6. #26
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    I don't understand, in the case of Thomas Knob, why a ranger didn't go up and stay at the shelter and address the bear situation. Bear shows up, rubber slug to the tush, and that bear probably wouldn't return. Fi

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Joe View Post
    I don't understand, in the case of Thomas Knob, why a ranger didn't go up and stay at the shelter and address the bear situation. Bear shows up, rubber slug to the tush, and that bear probably wouldn't return. Fi
    Or

    He could observe rhe campers behavior
    Do something bad, rubber slug to the tush
    Camper probably wont return

  8. #28

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    I have heard speculation that the poachers going for bear gall bladders kept a limit on them. There was a crackdown on poaching and the folks switched over to other means of illegal income like growing pot.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    I have heard speculation that the poachers going for bear gall bladders kept a limit on them. There was a crackdown on poaching and the folks switched over to other means of illegal income like growing pot.
    NAH, we've been grown pot and cook'n meth in the Smoky Mtns for several generations, so that ain't it.
    Last edited by DownYonder; 07-13-2018 at 20:01.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    I have heard speculation that the poachers going for bear gall bladders kept a limit on them. There was a crackdown on poaching and the folks switched over to other means of illegal income like growing pot.
    ?

    not following this

  11. #31
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    We really need to look back almost 50 or more years with the loss of a major predator that was nearly hunted to extinction and that is the wolf. I have seen several articles and books commenting of the long term effects that are now being felt. Chris Camuto wrote about the reintroduction into the parks but issues have not allowed to take hold. Yellowstone NP has had great positive results.

    Outside magazine had an article several years ago saying that it has also lead to the spreading of Lyme disease because of the rise of the coyotes which was kept in check by the wolf. Food chain works when left alone.

  12. #32

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    Just curious, when was the last time the SE Appalachians had a strong wolf population?

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by bayview View Post
    We really need to look back almost 50 or more years with the loss of a major predator that was nearly hunted to extinction and that is the wolf. I have seen several articles and books commenting of the long term effects that are now being felt. Chris Camuto wrote about the reintroduction into the parks but issues have not allowed to take hold. Yellowstone NP has had great positive results.

    Outside magazine had an article several years ago saying that it has also lead to the spreading of Lyme disease because of the rise of the coyotes which was kept in check by the wolf. Food chain works when left alone.
    Eastern cougar

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by bayview View Post
    We really need to look back almost 50 or more years with the loss of a major predator that was nearly hunted to extinction and that is the wolf. I have seen several articles and books commenting of the long term effects that are now being felt. Chris Camuto wrote about the reintroduction into the parks but issues have not allowed to take hold. Yellowstone NP has had great positive results.

    Outside magazine had an article several years ago saying that it has also lead to the spreading of Lyme disease because of the rise of the coyotes which was kept in check by the wolf. Food chain works when left alone.
    Not sure about the wolf thing. Red wolves are quite a bit smaller than their gray wolf cousins. It is true that that apex predator, humans, are hunting less (witness the exploding deer population and problems associated) and bear conservation efforts have been successful due to hunting restrictions. All of this leads to larger population of not only bears but other animals once used as food sources by humans.

    Another contributor is warming climate. Winters are not as long or harsh as they have been in past decades. Black bears are spending less time in torpor, more humans are hiking in the backcountry (especially when it's cooler), and not enough care is being given to the food these hikers are carrying. All this leads to more bear/human interactions.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatmanTN View Post
    I live relatively close to the GSMNP and go there pretty often. Some years I hear more anecdotes than others but every year they wind up closing about 30-40% of the sites for aggressive bear behavior. Last weekend I happened to camp with a Backcountry Ranger (law enforcement type with sidearm not ATC) and he related the final straw incident at Derrick Knob Shelter a few weeks ago which precipitated the closure: a small black bear ran through a guys tent with the guy in it and got all tangled up.

    I've had a few incidents myself over the last few years: had a pack stolen, a tent shredded, and one time a bear attempted to join my wife and I in camp. He didn't seem to want anything but just sat down about 20 feet from us and stared. We packed up and left.
    Patman, had you ever cooked, ate or kept food in that tent that got shredded? I haven't had any trouble with the bears in the Smokies and wondering if it's things that I do or just dumb luck. My girlfriend and I had 2 bears have a territory fight while we were in the tent at campsite 77 last month. The loser was all ready running by the time I got out of the tent but the winner just walked off when I yelled at him. Still nothing was messed with over the rest of the night. Skunks on the other hand are my arch enemies. Had one spray me while I was running through the woods with toilet paper in on hand and trowel in the other. Another one stole my ramens when I walked ten feet away to get my water.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    OrHe could observe rhe campers behavior
    Do something bad, rubber slug to the tush
    Camper probably wont return
    Absolutely! But that's not going to make that bear un-learn his/her behavior. No doubt it's a human problem and that part needs to be addressed but IMO it was foolish to leave the bear in that situation.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailmercury View Post
    Just curious, when was the last time the SE Appalachians had a strong wolf population?
    Apparently red wolves were around up until they were exterminated there by the late 1800's, early 1900's. The few remaining red wolves were captured in Texas and Louisiana in the 1970's and captive bred until a population was released in North Carolina. Here is a map of their historic range.

    red-wolf-historic-range.jpg
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  18. #38

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    I too think that bear cannisters will be a requirement within 5 years on many of the popular trails in the SE. Not crazy about adding another item to carry, but if it is good for the bears and helps overcome some laziness and ignorance on the part of hikers, it is the right thing to do.

  19. #39

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    Yeah, let’s get more government involvement and paperwork requirements to completely ruin the entire hiking experience.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    the Park could go back to the way they used to do it (as told to me by a ranger as i was not in this area at the time) where backpackers had to have their gear looked at and make sure it met the conditions of the trip...........along with going over logistics.
    Being smart about bears doesn't require a gear and logistics interrogation by a government "expert".

    Issuing hunting permits in a quantity that is designed to maintain the bear population at an historic norm would work wonders. Bears would fear humans again in the GSMNP.

    There is an estimated two bears per square mile in the GSMNP. That is the largest ever recorded. The bear population there has been artificially managed into something that has never before existed. Their predators were removed. Hunting the bears would return the bear population to an historic average while also teaching them to avoid people.

    This will eventually be the solution as unlikely as it may seem today.

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