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Thread: Lightning

  1. #1
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    Default Lightning

    NOLS' lightning protocol says not to stand near the entrance of a cave or small overhangs in a storm. If you are on trail, is standing in your typical shelter basically the same as standing near a cave opening? Or asked another way...is getting to a shelter a good option to reduce the chance of getting zapped or a bad option? Is your answer your opinion, or based on "professional" knowledge/experience?

    Thanks

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    I’m no expert (though I do play one on the internet ) So I can’t tell you whether shelters are more or less safe than it would be to just stand in the open in the same spot, but I can tell you that 3 sided shelters do not provide lightning protection, at least according to the experts:

    http://www.ngcoa.org/infocentral/app...0Lightning.doc

    My $0.02 is that since shelters are generally in the woods they’re relatively safe, and the roof can protect against small to moderate sized falling branches which is nice. I would not personally trust the rare shelter that is on a ridge or in an exposed area.
    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

  3. #3

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    There is way too much fear thrown out in US society on this and so many other subjects; I have hiked during thunderstorms, your chance of being hit is minuscule, still I would avoid being near commonly lightning hit objects like metal towers.


  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenmtnboy View Post
    There is way too much fear thrown out in US society on this and so many other subjects; I have hiked during thunderstorms, your chance of being hit is minuscule, still I would avoid being near commonly lightning hit objects like metal towers.
    About 300 people a year are stuck by lightning. Of those, only 13 people were killed by lightning in 2017, the lowest number ever. On average over the last 10 years, 27 people get killed by lightning. Back in 1942, 432 people were killed by lightning.

    Fewer people working in open fields like farms is one reason for the much lower numbers these days. Better and quicker treatment for people struck by lightning has also reduced the number of deaths. 70% of those killed by lightning are male.

    Florida had the most lightning deaths last year, followed by Alabama, NC and Colorado with three each.
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenmtnboy View Post
    There is way too much fear thrown out in US society on this and so many other subjects; I have hiked during thunderstorms, your chance of being hit is minuscule, still I would avoid being near commonly lightning hit objects like metal towers.
    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

  6. #6
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    Go inside the cave. Problem solved.
    Be Prepared

  7. #7

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    I believe that lightning travels down ravines and cracks as well as spreads across exposed (wet) roots and of course, barbed wire fences.
    I tend to try to stay away from all of those as much as possible, especially when lightning is closer than 3 seconds.
    Last year, we had it very close to us on our Via Dinarica hike as we ran across an open field to an abandoned house and then hid in the stable with the cow ****. Fastest mile we did on the whole trail.
    Don't let your fears stand in the way of your dreams

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    The reason you are warned not to stand near the entrance of a cave or under an over-hang is because electrical charges concentrate near pointed objects given rise to a greater chance lighting will strike at that point than somewhere else.

    To Sarcasm the elf's point, lighting is more likely to strike something taller than something shorter. A dense canopy of trees is considered a relatively safe area (lots of targets taller than you), where as a lone tree is dangerous being the most likely target in the area. So a shelter in a dense canopy of trees is probably a relatively save spot because the numerous taller pointed trees around the shelter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCloud View Post
    Go inside the cave. Problem solved.
    Only a solution if the cave is deep. Shallow caves, such as overhangs, are considered dangerous. I was planning a ridge hike starting tomorrow, but thunderstorms are forecast. I'll head out Wednesday and not have to worry about it.
    "It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss

  10. #10

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    When push comes to shove, the natural inclination is to bail off the high ground or ridge and get into a valley.

    One time I was camped on a TN ridge at 3,500 feet and heard ominous storm news pinging on my little radio so I packed up and did a nighthike 2 miles down and a loss of 1,500 feet to a creek valley. The storm raged up above but I felt safe in the valley.

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    The reason you get to lower (ravines, depressions etc.) areas is to reduce the risk of the lateral strikes. Ya the statistics indicate that the odds are pretty small that you will be hit. But I've had a couple of strikes so near to me that I could taste it. I have a healthy respect for them.
    Lonehiker (MRT '22)

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    Man do I hate statistics, and I'm a data guy at work. I don't care what the "odds" are, if that 1 in whatever chance can kill me, I take it seriously. People can twist statistics for darn near anything, to downplay carrying bear spray for example, and even terrorism. I wonder if Florida being #1 for strikes is due to all the boating activity? I've been on a river a few times with lightning touching down as close as 100 yds, and it's pucker factor 10 when you realize you're one of the tallest objects on the water.
    It is what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPritch View Post
    I wonder if Florida being #1 for strikes is due to all the boating activity?
    I've always assumed Florida was a high strike area because the state is pretty much flat (after all, isn't Disney's Expedition Everest the highest point in the state? ), combined with a region where storms are frequent (i.e. we're not talking dessert territory).

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by lonehiker View Post
    The reason you get to lower (ravines, depressions etc.) areas is to reduce the risk of the lateral strikes. Ya the statistics indicate that the odds are pretty small that you will be hit. But I've had a couple of strikes so near to me that I could taste it. I have a healthy respect for them.
    Risk factor depends on activity and location. Pretty much being in any open area when the afternoon T storms come rolling in.

    Florida is #1 for the number of yearly lightning strikes and combined with all the outdoor activities like boating and golfing, no surprise they are #1 for deaths.
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    Golfers hide under trees to hide from storms. Lots of boaters out on the water with nowhere to hide ... and we just get a LOT of thunderstorms.

    A friend of a friend just lost their donkey Friday - it was under a tree that got hit by lightning.

    I've been in my tent during a thunderstorm while camped on the infield of Daytona. Rationally, I realized there were lots of great lightning conductors around the perimeter of the track, but it was still pretty nerve racking.

    Had plenty of rain on the trail, but not much thunder/ lightning. If one came up, the same general rules would apply:
    stay off a ridge
    Stay out from under the tallest trees around.

    Lightning doesn't follow all the rules, so do your best and try not to panic.

  16. #16
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    the trail depression fills with water and lightning is everywhere you are in t he cloud lightning seemingly everywhere no tall trees and I am here to tell the story.
    Another timeI was rowing on a small river storm blew in lightning came straight down from a low cloud wide powerful blast. Feat lt buzz in my body and all hair stood on end I rowed to shore and got to a porch on a house.Rattled my cage good.

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    " I wonder if Florida being #1 for strikes is due to all the boating activity?"
    Not surprisingly, many
    people are walking on the beach or watching the cloud wall move in when they are struck. If the storm is over Saint Pete, with a 6 to 10 mile striking range, people on the beach are at risk and might not even know it.
    Let no one be deluded that a knowledge of the path can substitute for putting one foot in front of the other.
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  18. #18
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    I'm glad this topic is getting some more attention. A friend of a friend was killed by lightning on a 14er climb some decades ago after taking shelter in the lee of a large boulder.

    The areas described do not attract lightning. But a nearby strike will create very large ground currents, which can then arc across shallow, narrow openings. Those currents are why it's recommended to have only one point of contact with earth.

    I heard somewhere that most lightning fatalities are men. Perhaps women have better sense to get out of the storm, and to not stand in the open door or under the eave and watch the show.

  19. #19
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    Was on top of Kings Peak, UT when the typical afternoon storm rolled thru. Lucky to still be alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by garlic08 View Post
    ...........I heard somewhere that most lightning fatalities are men. Perhaps women have better sense to get out of the storm, and to not stand in the open door or under the eave and watch the show.
    That would be me. I always figured I was safe if I was under a roof, guess I better rethink that. Thanks.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

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