To all the stop and smell the roses crowd

[BuckeyeBill]

Normally when I hike, I get up around 5-5:15 AM. I stretch and cook breakfast (coffee, oatmeal and some kind of energy/grainy bar). I clean up and pack up and I am usually) leaving around 6 AM. I stop for a small lunch (crackers, cheese and summer sausage). Time spent for this is about 30 minutes. I hike until around 6-630 PM. I setup and cook something to eat. I then "socialize" until 8 PM, when I get in the hammock and sleep. That results in around 11 hours of hiking AND 9 hours of sleep.

[Another Kevin]

Once more into the breach ...

"You make only 8-12 miles a day? What do you do with the rest of the time?" seems to be a recurring question on this thread.

My answer:

I'm not in the best of shape, because I so seldom have time to hike. (Demanding job, daughter in the middle of a job change and interstate move and wedding, chronically ill wife, ...) I never get to hike enough to find my "trail legs."

When I do have time to take a hiking vacation, on the trails (and bushwhacks!) that I favour, I have to start slow, usually planning 8-12 mile days. But the trails and bushwhacks that I favour aren't the A-T, so that 8-12 mpd may not be the same sort of mileage.

If I'm on trail, I budget 30 minutes to the mile, add 40 minutes for each 1000 feet of elevation change, up or down. Plus a fudge factor for dodgy stream crossings, rock climbing, snow travel, etc. if I expect to run into those. Off trail, I may budget twice that time or more - bushwhacks in my part of the world are very rough going.

So let's look at a day I did a couple of Octobers ago, that, at 13.2 miles (12.8 trail miles plus 0.4 from a legal campsite to the trail) was just beyond that 8-12 mile limit. (Note that the times come from a spreadsheet that I have where I enter distances and elevations - it's not that I try to figure things to the minute, I just copied-n-pasted from the sheet.)

Miles	Elevation	Time	Description
0.4	0	0:08	Sundown campground-trail
3.95	+2850	3:13	Peekamoose Mountain summit
0.25	-220	0:14	Col
0.6	+220	0:21	Table Mountain summit
2.65	-1640	1:59	Neversink River
	300	0:12	Add time for PUD's
0.15	+120	0:08	Trail junction
4.05	+1980	2:40	Slide Mountain summit
1.15	-920	1:00	Burroughs Range campsite
		0:15	Add time to negotiate short class 4 scramble on east face of Slide
13.2		10:10	TOTAL

This trip was in October, so there were about 11 hours of daylight. I did stop at a couple of very nice overlooks for lunch and snacks. I came pretty close to the time bogey. I like to arrive at my campsite with time to hang my bear bag in daylight, and I had enough light left but not a lot of time left over - the sun was already behind the mountain to the west of me.

Now, I'd suspect that there was more vertical here than there would be on most sections of the AT outside New England, but I found that 13.2-mile day was pretty strenuous for me - 20 miles in those conditions would have had me hiking long after dark (and wouldn't have been safe, because there was more rock scrambling ahead). This was big mileage for me. I'd ordinarily budget 2-5 miles less and spend an extra hour or two on compulsive photography or writing.

What did I do with the few hours between dark and bedtime? Pitched camp. Fetched and treated water. Ate a cold dinner (I had had a hot meal for lunch - I often do that so as not to cook in camp). Bathed. Did a little bit of writing. And made an early night of it because I'm always starting off a trip way short of sleep and need a couple of days to get caught up.

I know I'm slow, but the critics here make me sound absolutely hopeless. No matter. I'll keep plodding and get there eventually.

[Seatbelt]

The older I get the slower I hike but I still hate to stop for anything. Then when I’m finished I think back to all the views, etc. that I missed and wish I had slowed down.

I can relate to this as well. I have wished many times (later on) that I had taken the time to see something on a side trail.

[tdoczi]

That results in around 11 hours of hiking AND 9 hours of sleep.

yeah i did the math and came to a similar conclusion too.

i'm not surprised at all, but it almost seems like the "stop and smell the roses" crowd just has hours in their day they can't really even account for. they attribute it to just walking slowly but i'm really convinced its impossible to actually walk that slowly for a sustained period of time.

[Another Kevin]

yeah i did the math and came to a similar conclusion too.

i'm not surprised at all, but it almost seems like the "stop and smell the roses" crowd just has hours in their day they can't really even account for. they attribute it to just walking slowly but i'm really convinced its impossible to actually walk that slowly for a sustained period of time.

Uhm. Yes, I am that slow. See the table in my last post. Ten hours hiking, eleven hours daylight because it was an autumn hike, 13.2 miles, held pretty close to schedule. The elevation changes really slow me down. I'm just not built to race on Upson Downs.

[tdoczi]

Uhm. Yes, I am that slow. See the table in my last post. Ten hours hiking, eleven hours daylight because it was an autumn hike, 13.2 miles, held pretty close to schedule. The elevation changes really slow me down. I'm just not built to race on Upson Downs.

the difficulty of the trail is obviously a huge factor and i am not familiar with the trails youre specifically referencing. it seems like at least some of them could be hard on the level of the whites. and certainly anything off trail is clearly a completely different story.

that said-

13.2 / 11 is 1.2 MPH. on very difficult trail thats reasonable, but lets put that aside for a moment.

lets assume its on easier trail, such as is 75% or more of the AT is. lets take an average AT section, lets say central MA or southern VT.

my firm belief, one which someone would have to show me physical evidence to the contrary for me to change my opinion, is that it is literally impossible to walk at a steady 1.2 MPH pace on such terrain. its an awkwardly, uncomfortably slow pace. unless we're talking about someone with some sort of physical ailment that slows them down somehow. a person of normal physical ability with no impediments can not comfortably walk that slowly. someone would have to literally show me otherwise for me to change my opinion on this.

someone who averages 1.2 MPH over easy to average terrain is not walking a steady 1.2 MPH, theyre stopping constantly while actually moving at closer to 2 MPH while moving.

the answer to going "faster" is to not stop as much.

[LittleRock]

someone who averages 1.2 MPH over easy to average terrain is not walking a steady 1.2 MPH, theyre stopping constantly while actually moving at closer to 2 MPH while moving.

And I'd wager that you "fast" hikers aren't actually walking at a steady 2 MPH, but closer to 2.5 or 3 MPH, which averages out to 2 MPH over the course of the day when factoring in breaks, judging by how quickly you all tend to pass me on trail.

[stephanD]

5km = 5000meters = 3.12 miles per hour

[tdoczi]

And I'd wager that you "fast" hikers aren't actually walking at a steady 2 MPH, but closer to 2.5 or 3 MPH, which averages out to 2 MPH over the course of the day when factoring in breaks, judging by how quickly you all tend to pass me on trail.

oh some are for sure, but its a small percentage.

i tend to only ever pass other hikers when theyre sitting still. in 10 days of hiking a couple of weeks ago i can probably count on one hand the number of times i passed a walking hiker.

[Dogwood]

the difficulty of the trail is obviously a huge factor and i am not familiar with the trails youre specifically referencing. it seems like at least some of them could be hard on the level of the whites. and certainly anything off trail is clearly a completely different story.

that said-

13.2 / 11 is 1.2 MPH. on very difficult trail thats reasonable, but lets put that aside for a moment.

lets assume its on easier trail, such as is 75% or more of the AT is. lets take an average AT section, lets say central MA or southern VT.

my firm belief, one which someone would have to show me physical evidence to the contrary for me to change my opinion, is that it is literally impossible to walk at a steady 1.2 MPH pace on such terrain. its an awkwardly, uncomfortably slow pace. unless we're talking about someone with some sort of physical ailment that slows them down somehow. a person of normal physical ability with no impediments can not comfortably walk that slowly. someone would have to literally show me otherwise for me to change my opinion on this.

someone who averages 1.2 MPH over easy to average terrain is not walking a steady 1.2 MPH, theyre stopping constantly while actually moving at closer to 2 MPH while moving.

the answer to going "faster" is to not stop as much.

conditions highly matter. throw snow, ice, mud, heavy rain, roller coasting tread- even if it is constant 100 ft up 100 ft down stuff, stumbling roly poly Rocksylvania rocky thread, wet tread on wet trail construction with wet leaves and roots on ascents and descents, sand on slabs, heat and humidity, fords, etc Add in being out of shape or not in hiking and, later, thru-hiking shape, struggling with conventional wt and high volume packs, culturally spoiled mindsets, food addictions(habits), failure(quitter) negative mindsets, etc These dont all have to apply by any means so dont say I'm saying that if youre of a more moderate MPD avgs. HYOH Why are we even caring to compare ourselves to others?...to maybe define our own social self worth?

[Slo-go'en]

Every so often you just have to sit down and enjoy the view for a while, or what's the point?

[rocketsocks]

I wanna know where all these roses are, Ive never one that wasn’t in a town.

[tdoczi]

conditions highly matter. throw snow, ice, mud, heavy rain, roller coasting tread- even if it is constant 100 ft up 100 ft down stuff, stumbling roly poly Rocksylvania rocky thread, wet tread on wet trail construction with wet leaves and roots on ascents and descents, sand on slabs, heat and humidity, fords, etc Add in being out of shape or not in hiking and, later, thru-hiking shape, struggling with conventional wt and high volume packs, culturally spoiled mindsets, food addictions(habits), failure(quitter) negative mindsets, etc These dont all have to apply by any means so dont say I'm saying that if youre of a more moderate MPD avgs. HYOH Why are we even caring to compare ourselves to others?...to maybe define our own social self worth?

1.2 MPH works out to roughly 100 feet per minute.

try walking 100 feet at a consistent, even, comfortable pace requiring you take one minute or more to complete that distance. you cant do it.

[tdoczi]

Every so often you just have to sit down and enjoy the view for a while, or what's the point?

i do stop and enjoy views.... whats awhile?

and even if one never stops for "awhile" theres still, potentially, plenty of "point."

theres whole stretches of trail of dozens if not hundreds of miles that have no views to stop and enjoy.... whats the point of hiking them?

[Dogwood]

1.2 MPH works out to roughly 100 feet per minute.

try walking 100 feet at a consistent, even, comfortable pace requiring you take one minute or more to complete that distance. you cant do it.

Betcha two slices of eggplant and sawsage and a icy cold Michelob from Vinnie's Pizza in Bellville I can.

[Seatbelt]

I wanna know where all these roses are, Ive never one that wasn’t in a town.

The thru-hikers already destroyed them....tic

[tdoczi]

Betcha two slices of eggplant and sawsage and a icy cold Michelob from Vinnie's Pizza in Bellville I can.

to be clear, are you proposing walking the 100 feet before or after eating?

you can have any pizza you want, but on the off chance i lose i am not spending money on michelob. youll drink a real beer and like it.

[Odd Man Out]

The idea that it is difficult to walk slow is supported by the biomechanics of walking. Assuming you are walking on level ground (I know, hard to find on the AT), your pace is like an inverted pendulum. Walking is energy efficient when, like a pendulum, energy from one step is transferred to the next. However for this to work, the pendulum must oscillate at its natural frequency. It's more difficult to make a pendulum swing slower than its natural frequency. My wife always complains that I walk too fast. I then explain to he the biomechanics of walking and the physics of pendulums. Oddly enough, the only makes the problem worse.

[tdoczi]

The idea that it is difficult to walk slow is supported by the biomechanics of walking. Assuming you are walking on level ground (I know, hard to find on the AT), your pace is like an inverted pendulum. Walking is energy efficient when, like a pendulum, energy from one step is transferred to the next. However for this to work, the pendulum must oscillate at its natural frequency. It's more difficult to make a pendulum swing slower than its natural frequency. My wife always complains that I walk too fast. I then explain to he the biomechanics of walking and the physics of pendulums. Oddly enough, the only makes the problem worse.

interesting. especially the part about the level ground.

i'm actually a firm believer that the easiest ground to walk on is an upward slope that is not sufficient enough to strain your cardiovascular system. it by far feels the most comfortable to walk on to me. much more than a comparable downhill and even slightly more than flat. i can walk uphill on a well graded, gradually ascending trail all day and never get the least bit sore or tired.

i wonder if there is anything about the biomechanics of walking that explain this.

[tdoczi]

approaching the issue from the opposite direction but still relevant and interesting about the calories thing-

https://www.verywellfit.com/slow-wal...joints-3436873