Bear problem at Thomas Knob

[MuddyWaters]

Yes, but, that stretch up there is GORGEOUS and so are the campsites. It really is hard to pass up if you can snag a pad on top of that ridge.

Maybe if you like camping with a hundred people

The 1/4 Mile before and after Thomas knob shelter is often packed with people. People that come by the bus load from schools. The campsites arent all that ,and there's really no reason to stop there other than it's a convenient location.

[RuthN]

How effective would an Ursack be in this situation, and where would you store the canister if you know there's an active bear in the area?

[Sarcasm the elf]

How effective would an Ursack be in this situation, and where would you store the canister if you know there's an active bear in the area?

Bear canisters are simply left in a low lying area where they can’t roll away. They’re designed so that bears can’t get a grip on them or carry them off. All they can do is bat them around until they get bored.
I’m not a huge fan of ursaks because if used properly, the bear won’t be able to get the food inside, but the food will still get destroyed and become a mush of crushed food and bear drool inside the bag.

[JPritch]

How effective would an Ursack be in this situation, and where would you store the canister if you know there's an active bear in the area?

Just make sure you secure the Ursack properly. The guy camping next to me had his Ursack taken the night I was up there. But then you still have the crushed/wet food mentioned above.

[wornoutboots]

This bear is a monster!! He came into our camp @ 1 mile N of Thomas Knob on Wednesday (5/16). We had a perfect hang @ 15-18' off the ground & around 6' from the trunk, he swatted at the tree a few time & 5 of us went down there & chased him away & then 10 minutes later we all are laying in our tents & hear a huge crash, he must have been on top of the branch that was @ 6"-8" in diameter & took the whole branch & himself down. He wasn't scared of us at all, standing over his new prize for a long while until got really loud & he wandered off to where we could pick up most of the food strewn all over & then we packed up & hiked out at midnight. I called the ranger station (as the warning sign says to do) the next morning & got snubbed, with them saying: "yeah we know, we will eventually put a trap up there & catch him. I hope no one gets hurt or killed in the meantime!!! If you are coming through that area, I would not camp up there. I's say this bear is @ 350-400lbs

[martinb]

"eventually"? From your experience it sounds like time is about to run out on someone not getting hurt.

[Siestita]

"This bear is a monster!! He came into our camp @ 1 mile N of Thomas Knob on Wednesday (5/16). We had a perfect hang @ 15-18' off the ground & around 6' from the trunk, he swatted at the tree a few time & 5 of us went down there & chased him away & then 10 minutes later we all are laying in our tents & hear a huge crash, he must have been on top of the branch that was @ 6"-8" in diameter & took the whole branch & himself down. He wasn't scared of us at all, standing over his new prize for a long while until got really loud & he wandered off to where we could pick up most of the food strewn all over & then we packed up & hiked out at midnight. I called the ranger station (as the warning sign says to do) the next morning & got snubbed, with them saying: "yeah we know, we will eventually put a trap up there & catch him. I hope no one gets hurt or killed in the meantime!!! If you are coming through that area, I would not camp up there. I's say this bear is @ 350-400lbs"

Was this a "nuisance bear" or "problem bear"? Obviously, so. Does the potential exist for people to be hurt while trying to defend their food bags during such interactions, Again, the answer is "yes".

But, simply because a Black Bear happens to be very large, has lost its fear of human beings, and has become adept at snagging backpackers' food bags does not make that creature monstrous nor necessarily predatory. Black bears launch predatory attacks on members of our species very, very rarely. They seldom treat our bodies (as opposed to our munchies) as a potential food source. Nothing in the account above indicated that a predatory attack occurred or was likely to take place that night.

It might have been more prudent for the hikers present to have waited until day break before walking out to Massie Gap. That trail has some steep sections where someone could have fallen and become injured in the dark.

[martinb]

I don't think anyone is suggesting a predatory attack. However, in my experience, there are quite a few hikers sleeping with food. This bear is highly likely to try to get at the food inside someone's tent.

[TNhiker]

This bear is highly likely to try to get at the food inside someone's tent

according to reports on FB-----it already has......

[JPritch]

according to reports on FB-----it already has......

Can you share...I don't have The Facebook.

....then 10 minutes later we all are laying in our tents & hear a huge crash, he must have been on top of the branch that was @ 6"-8" in diameter & took the whole branch & himself down...

Not surprised at all. The few non-pine trees up there are so weak and rotted that I figured it wouldn't take much for a bear to bring it down.

[BuckeyeBill]

I have a Ursack AllMitey with the metal liner. If you follow the instructions and tie the bag shut tightly (the knot is basically a double square knot. All of my food is double bagged in odor free bags (not sure if they really work or not). I then find a good downed tree that is about 8-10 inches in diameter and you tie the bag to it again with a double square knot. You need to anchor it to something it can't break or drag away. The metal liner helps protect the food inside.

[TNhiker]

Can you share...I don't have The Facebook.

this is what was posted in an AT section hiker group.....along with some photos of the tent ripped up...




Heads up near Mt Rogers / Grayson Highlands in VA – a major bear incident reported at Thomas Knob Shelter on Sat 5/5 – a bear took down an improperly hung food bag on a branch near a tent and ate it PLUS moved a thru hiker’s tent who was storing food inside it. Moral of the story – hang your food correctly and do not store it in your tent. (first bear pic is not from this incident, 2nd - trashed tent of a thru hiker last year in Shenandoah - he had toothpaste, etc. inside.3rd is a paw print on my tent set up near the thru hiker tent that got nailed. I did not have any smellables in mine.)

[Fredt4]

i would not do this one............at all................not if there are already problem bears in the area...

but thats just me............your safety is your safety afterall (in the style of hyoh)........

I like this option best, never had a bear try to get my food that I was sleeping with. I've seen many hikers lose their hung food. If everyone used this method there would be no problem bears. A poor hang is a bad hang, don't expect the bear to get someone else's hang. 9

[TNhiker]

I like this option best, never had a bear try to get my food that I was sleeping with. I've seen many hikers lose their hung food. If everyone used this method there would be no problem bears.

i would disagree.........

and sadly, in popular areas----there is always going to be problem bears.....

look at this example and spence field from two (?) summers ago...

a problem bear, in both of these cases, tried getting into a tent......

tent may or may not have had food in it............but the bear still tried.....


and that leads to hikers-----how is a hiker going to know which camping area has a problem bear or not?

[BuckeyeBill]

I don't know about sleeping with your food is a good or bad idea, but I have often wondered if the bear can see the bags hanging from tree and associate them with food? The bags should be above their ability the smell them, but again maybe not.

[TNhiker]

but I have often wondered if the bear can see the bags hanging from tree and associate them with food? The bags should be above their ability the smell them, but again maybe not.

yeah.....

bears in the GSMNP have associated bags (along with other things such as tents) with food....

every year at russell field and cosby knob (which is currently closed due to bears)-----the resident bear has been known to run off with backpacks..............

some backpacks have had food----others have not....


also----while the Park provides cables to hang bags from----it's an open faced hook.........

and bears (and other critters) have figured out if they shake the cables, something might fall down with food in it....

and thats why ive been saying for years now----take a carabiner and clip it to the cable that holds the hook...

[wornoutboots]

Not surprised at all. The few non-pine trees up there are so weak and rotted that I figured it wouldn't take much for a bear to bring it down.[/QUOTE]

Our hang was a very strong pine tree. We all heard the large crack & thud. After we saw the bear, it was no surprise it took such a large branch down.

Interesting night!!

[martinb]

----take a carabiner and clip it to the cable that holds the hook...

No doubt about it. I experienced this firsthand at #41 many years ago when a problem bear came in and tried to shake my food bag off the cables. The bear was really moving the thing and the carabiner trick saved the day (errrrr night?).

[steve_zavocki]

I was there last Saturday night. Due to rain, we stayed in the shelter upstairs. The lower portion was full of Boy Scouts. We kept our food in the bear boxes provided by the forest service. The ranger we talked to said that was a temporary solution since Virginia doesn't do bear boxes (not sure why).

A thru hiker we talked to on Sunday said that he saw the bear and he was sitting there watching him put his food bag in the bear box.

There are two bear boxes I saw, one near the shelter and one further down nearer to Rhododendron gap.

[wornoutboots]

"But, simply because a Black Bear happens to be very large, has lost its fear of human beings, and has become adept at snagging backpackers' food bags does not make that creature monstrous nor necessarily predatory. Black bears launch predatory attacks on members of our species very, very rarely. They seldom treat our bodies (as opposed to our munchies) as a potential food source. Nothing in the account above indicated that a predatory attack occurred or was likely to take place that night.

It might have been more prudent for the hikers present to have waited until day break before walking out to Massie Gap. That trail has some steep sections where someone could have fallen and become injured in the dark.

"Monster" was a figure of speech often used for an extremely large item or animal.

The night hike out was an amazing part of this adventurous night. We went down the Wilson Ridge trail, short cutting the AT & it was a blast. I probably have much more night hiking experience than most from soboing the PCT, I night hiked the last few months every night & I quite like it's intensity.

Thanks!!