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  1. #21

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    As I prepare to do the HMW north bound in Sept, please tell me I wont be dealing with to much of this....

  2. #22
    Some days, it's not worth chewing through the restraints.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uriah View Post
    An AT NOBO trek is much closer to being a wilderness experience than is sitting here on our computers under artificial lighting. Probably more entertaining, too.
    You betcha! And if somebody wants to feed me when I cross the road, I'll be more than happy to oblige them. I've never found trail magic - spontaneous or otherwise - to not be a pleasant experience. The parties I avoid like the plague, but since I'm crossing the street, I might as well eat what's on the other side.

  3. #23
    Registered User soilman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    The the approach to the AT is to make the trail as easy and as accessible to as many people as possible...
    Footbridges over every trickle, switchbacks on every steep climb, maximize number of people on the trail, shelters privies, etc. The entire management plan of it has nothing to do with Wilderness style experience. And that's a shame.
    I disagree. I think the ATC is trying to make a trail that is sustainable. Trails that go straight up a mountain will not last. I remember going up Bald Pate mountain on a trail without switchbacks that was 10-20 wide and about 5 feet deep and it really was ugly. If you look closely in the GSMNP you can see remnants of the old AT that went straight up the mountain and ended up being a 3 feet gully.

    It seems to me that many people do not want a wilderness experience or even an adventure when they hike the AT. Some folks want to know where every campsite and water source is along the trail. With all the electronic gadgets, shuttles, hostels, etc. you can hike the trail and hardly spend any time sleeping in the woods.
    More walking, less talking.

  4. #24

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    Maybe Bill Schaeffer's AT experience might be described as "wilderness", but I have always considered the AT to be backwoods. You frequently see and hear "civilization", but also get some quiet time and a chance to see the woods as they are when no one is around. On a long hike, the walking, the trees, the overlooks and the silence don't translate well in journals written by most modern common folks. After a thousand or so miles, it's the people you meet and the breaks from the trail that make an immediate impact on the hiker. That's what they tend to write about. There are only so many times you can read a trail journal describing Unaka Mountain and Sages Ravine. You have to be there to understand it. There are some moments when an AT hike is like visiting the circus, but there are also some moments when you can escape the shackles of modern society.

  5. #25

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    SOBO-ing the PCT takes some luck and a late start (unless really low snow year)
    You can do the same on the AT.
    Or a really late start. (Sept)
    Or really early if it's a low snow year.
    That's the only way you're going to see a wilderness experience on the AT.
    I once did a SOBO starting at K on Oct 14th.
    Long nights though.
    But no people except on weekends and hunters.
    I think a month earlier would be great.

    I could never do the AT NOBO in the bubble.
    I remember one time doing GA in April and it was raining and there were 40 people standing in a shelter!
    No way could you fit another one in there.
    So, I continued the hike to the next shelter (only about 25 in that one)
    Just got wet and learned to not plan on any shelters. Stealth camped a lot. That's the way to enjoy the wilderness on the AT. (IMO of course)
    Don't let your fears stand in the way of your dreams

  6. #26
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiddlehead View Post
    Just got wet and learned to not plan on any shelters. Stealth camped a lot. That's the way to enjoy the wilderness on the AT. (IMO of course)

    You started a SOBO on October 14th?

    Holly crap!

    What a different kind of thru hike that must have been.

    Putting the semantics aside, I think AT hikers still have the ability to interject a whole lot more wild into their trips if they want to.

    Stealth camping to be sure.

    To the person wondering about their NOBO HMW trip -- that is something to keep in mind. Hard not to feel a magnetic attraction to the Maine shelters, but with a bit a creativity (like walking up a brook interesting the AT or along a pond's shore) staying away from them will sure increase the feeling of wilderness by an order of magnitude, I think.

    Another way is to resupply less frequently than you really need to. Seems like most would consider this strategy about as dumb as carrying a cast iron frying pan, but I am not so sure. It would be interesting to compare how the average time between resupplies has changed over the years.

    Another thing I think could increase ones sense of wildness would be doing just a small bit of study of the natural history in the eastern forests, and along the AT -- especially if that is something that was never your thing to begin with. Along those lines, this is one book I would recommend https://www.amazon.com/Tracking-Art-.../dp/0062735241
    Last edited by rickb; 05-15-2018 at 07:42.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wornoutboots View Post
    Part of relaxing my mind at bed time, I read trail journals & since soboing the PCT in 2016, I find my self not enjoying the AT nobo journals when looking to read a journal about a wilderness experience. It seams that all you hear are people being met nearly every day at roads getting so called "trail magic" & you hear nothing about the forests, streams & mountains. I have section hiked the AT from Springer to DWG & have enjoyed the wilderness of it since I mainly go sobo & pick months where there aren't many hikers. I guess I was just spoiled on the PCT especially in the final 1 1/2-2 months from KM south to the border where I rarely saw any other hiker & didn't camp with anyone at all except the last night where I met a dude, "walking mantis" who I hadn't seen since Oregon. Just an observation
    I think that vlogs and journals are almost always going to make the social aspect seem like a much bigger percentage of the hike than they actually are. It's not a lot of fun to read:

    8 am - I walked, it was hot
    9 am - I walked and ate a snack
    10am - I walked and refilled my water
    11am - I walked in the rain
    12 am - I walked in the rain.......

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayne View Post
    I think that vlogs and journals are almost always going to make the social aspect seem like a much bigger percentage of the hike than they actually are. It's not a lot of fun to read:

    8 am - I walked, it was hot
    9 am - I walked and ate a snack
    10am - I walked and refilled my water
    11am - I walked in the rain
    12 am - I walked in the rain.......
    I would want to know what happened between 11am and 12 am...That's a 13 hour gap!!!

  9. #29
    13-45 Section Hiker Trash
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayne View Post
    I think that vlogs and journals are almost always going to make the social aspect seem like a much bigger percentage of the hike than they actually are. It's not a lot of fun to read:

    8 am - I walked, it was hot
    9 am - I walked and ate a snack
    10am - I walked and refilled my water
    11am - I walked in the rain
    12 am - I walked in the rain.......
    I agree, and it also depends on the author. Not to make a gross generalization, but I have noticed when I read journals that the younger folks typically document primarily the social aspects of their hikes whilst the older folks usually interject a lot more detail pertaining to the "wilderness experience".
    AT: 2007-2019 (45 sections)
    JMT: 2013

  10. #30
    Registered User JPritch's Avatar
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    The people you meet along the way are what makes the AT special.
    It is what it is.

  11. #31
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    If you set out early enough, you might see a random hiker here or there. But come March...its an interstate highway and party scene. I get the social and hospitality of the trail. There is scenary just have to get away from the crowd to enjoy it.

    I say set out early probably start Fall/early Winter and get as far north. Come back after the snowfall and jump back on ahead of the crowd.

    The one thing I like about the Mountains to Sea Trail is there are no crowds. You might hit a crowded campsite in the backcountry areas on the weekends. But after the mountains, you share the trail roads with cars...but no more hikers other than SP visitors. Towns people will pick you up and take you in to supply. Or allow temp night stay on their land.
    ''Tennessee Viking'
    Mountains to Sea Trail Hiker & Maintainer
    Former TEHCC (AT) Maintainer

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailmercury View Post
    I would want to know what happened between 11am and 12 am...That's a 13 hour gap!!!
    I think the hiker needed a P :P

  13. #33
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    The AT is what you make it to be. Sure it continues to become more like the Camino but it’s up to you to determine whether to stealth camp or stay by a shelter, go into town every other day or every fifth day, choose to either spend the night, zero or head back out after resupplying of take alternate trails.

    The degree to which it is a wilderness experience is in large up to the individual, their comfort level and the degree to which they want to challenge them-self. I won’t be going on any three week trips in the Cohuttas without resupply but I found my comfort level.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayne View Post
    I think that vlogs and journals are almost always going to make the social aspect seem like a much bigger percentage of the hike than they actually are. It's not a lot of fun to read:
    8 am - I walked, it was hot
    9 am - I walked and ate a snack
    10am - I walked and refilled my water
    11am - I walked in the rain
    12 am - I walked in the rain.......
    Agree, that's why I bring a camera and take lots of pictures instead of keeping a journal!
    It's all good in the woods.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennessee Viking View Post
    If you set out early enough, you might see a random hiker here or there. But come March...its an interstate highway and party scene. I get the social and hospitality of the trail. There is scenary just have to get away from the crowd to enjoy it.
    I say set out early probably start Fall/early Winter and get as far north. Come back after the snowfall and jump back on ahead of the crowd.
    The one thing I like about the Mountains to Sea Trail is there are no crowds. You might hit a crowded campsite in the backcountry areas on the weekends. But after the mountains, you share the trail roads with cars...but no more hikers other than SP visitors. Towns people will pick you up and take you in to supply. Or allow temp night stay on their land.
    Even setting out early may not be enough anymore. I was surprised at the number of thrus I saw in Shenandoah this April, and nearly all of them had started in February. I once met a SOBO thru-hiker near Newfound Gap on a day hike in the Smokies in January. He'd started from Big K in September - now that's a wilderness experience!

    Completely agree on the MST - right now I'm seriously considering taking a break from section hiking the AT for a couple years and section hiking the 'mountains' part of the MST. The rest of the state, not so much. I did a couple day hikes here in the Triangle and it was quiet for sure, but the scenery left much to be desired.
    It's all good in the woods.

  16. #36
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    Pasted from- https://wilderness.nps.gov/faqnew.cfm

    What is wilderness?The Wilderness Act, signed into law in 1964, created the National Wilderness Preservation System and recognized wilderness as “an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain.” The Act further defined wilderness as "an area of undeveloped Federal land retaining its primeval character and influence without permanent improvements or human habitation, which is protected and managed so as to preserve its natural conditions . . . ." (For the complete definition of wilderness, see Section 2(c) of the Wilderness Act.)


    I'm still unclear why so many folks feel that the most popular long distance trail in the world, passing through the most populated region of the US, with the very best volunteer trail labor force providing; blazing, signage, shelters, and a gloriously maintained footpath qualifies as a wilderness experience.

    It's not. By definition having a trail at all is pushing it.

    It's okay that it's not wilderness. Other than trying to impress your friends, family or social media following there is no reason to delude anyone that it is.
    If you think of yerself as some brave adventurer trekking into the untamed wilds... joke is on you.
    Having the expectation or delusion the AT is a wilderness dilutes what a true wilderness experience is... and also ruins the AT as well.

    The AT is quite an achievement... carving out and reclaiming a thin ribbon of continuous woods for people to easily access and enjoy.
    It's on par with an exceptional state park. Busy in the front country, rarely too far from a road, passing near towns, and generally safe to use.
    It's a string of 3-6 day hikes, but rather than looping back to the state park lot... you connect to the next trailhead and continue on in an unbroken line.
    You get to show up when you want, get off where ever you want, easily travel, walk with relative ease, and move from place to place with little or no navigational needs, permits or planning.
    (PS- nearly every place everywhere else requires you to get a permit. Especially wilderness areas).


    It is a social trail, meeting people and traveling through the different cultures the trail passes through is part of the trail.
    You pass major metropolitan areas and single stop sign towns in podunk nowhere.
    National historical sites, amazing national parks, urban parks, rail to trail conversions, college campuses, main street USA to the wilds of Maine.
    Hell you walk through a building and a zoo. You cross bridges, highways, interstates and country roads. Bear, deer, and dozens of other trails crisscross and share your path too.

    You meet everyone from the true hillbillies of deep appalachia to rich celebs in new england and nearly every american in between.
    You'll pass or stay at country farmhouses, regular suburbia, remote cabins and what can feel like walking though an episode of this old house.
    You'll hike with folks from all around the world, from every walk of life, of every age and every background.

    You may even meet swingers or a yoga instructor. Might even meet the fella who owns the place if'n that's what you're looking for.
    You're also free to spend very large amounts of time with yourself, to carry more food and visit town less.

    You're free to bathe at camp, skip towns, not visit a restaurant, nor stay at a single hostel.

    You can mail your supplies just like one would leave food caches on a true wilderness trip.
    With little more than a quick duck into the post office or one of the quiet businesses that service the trail- you'll be resupplied and back on the trail in an hour or less.
    If an FKT hiker with no time to smell the roses can 'do it wrong'... surely you too can quickly get back to the wild trail in 60 minutes or less.

    You can travel the trail however you like and live whatever fantasy you choose.


    But you will not be in the wilderness.
    It does exist if you want to go there, though I doubt many long distance hikers would enjoy bushwhacking, planning a route, using a compass or carrying multiple weeks of food at a crack.
    Not seeing another person for several weeks is actually a mildly unnerving experience. And not being able to share such things with a fellow human is a hard way to be living for long.
    Most Chris McCandless devotees seem to forget that was the lesson he learnt... though it cost him his life to learn it. In truth, the wilderness is not a very nice place.


    There are many wilderness areas, there are places on this planet you could wander for weeks at a time with only your reflection in a pond or the occasional plane overhead to remind you there are more two leggeds out there somewhere.


    I'll go paddle deep into Quetico and find an unnamed lake or two when I get the itch to really get out there. One day I'll head west and find a blank spot on the map perhaps.
    Though I can wander out of bounds in the local state park and find a quiet spot for a sit with the spirit that moves though all things without the help of a blazed trail or a ride across the country.

    And as anyone who has been truly out there will tell you... in truth no matter where you go, there you are.
    If you are unhappy here or there; perhaps it's not where you are but simply that you are in bad company.


    But if I want to just show up to a place I can traverse a ridgeline, sleep on a bald, stretch my legs, give ma nature a big hug, hoist a pint with a German feller, a dirty hippie chick, and ol Man Willy; all in the span of a weeks time...

    Enjoy the Appalachian Trail for what it is.
    There is truly only one and it is an amazingly unique place.

  17. #37

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    ^^^^This^^^^

  18. #38
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    It's okay that it's not wilderness.
    I will believe your definition of wilderness is correct, correct but here is a video shot in the mountains of Pennsylvania that might explain why some people get confused:



    Whether that log was on the AT or not, it could have been. Is some folk mistake all that for Wilderness, I will forgive them.

    What I could never do is forgive those who think these mountains and the wildlife living in them are any less worthy of protection because, well **** it — it’s not Wilderness and who doesn’t appreciate a racetrack/casino/whatever right?

  19. #39
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    I will believe your definition of wilderness is correct, correct but here is a video shot in the mountains of Pennsylvania that might explain why some people get confused:



    Whether that log was on the AT or not, it could have been. Is some folk mistake all that for Wilderness, I will forgive them.

    What I could never do is forgive those who think these mountains and the wildlife living in them are any less worthy of protection because, well **** it — it’s not Wilderness and who doesn’t appreciate a racetrack/casino/whatever right?
    Yar. Well said.

    In hunting, "silence is gold." Go quietly, slowly, and silently. Remember that the bright-eyed, sharp-eared woodfolk can see, hear and smell, with a keenness that throws your dull faculties quite in the shade. As you go lumbering and stick-breaking through the woods, you will never know how many of these quietly leave your path to right and left, allowing you to pass, while they glide away, unseen, unknown. It is easily seen that a sharp-sensed, light-bodied denizen of the woods can detect the approach of a heavy, bifurcated, booted animal, a long way ahead, and avoid him accordingly.

    But there is an art, little known and practiced, that invariably succeeds in outflanking most wild animals; an art, simple in conception and execution, but requiring patience; a species, so to speak, of high art in forestry—the art of "sitting on a log."

    Nessmuk

  20. #40

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    what is the point of this thread?

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