New Garmin InReach Mini Satellite Communicator

[jefals]

Hadn't thought about turning off Bluetooth. Good idea.

Still can't find the battery display on the mini.. I do see the mini's battery status in Earthmate.

If you push the power button, it will show you the pct left in the battery.
Not sure how much turning off Bluetooth will save. (Are we still talking about turning off Bluetooth on the mini, or turning off Bluetooth on the phone)?
I think my tracking on my test yesterday was set to 10 minutes. Trying again today with it turned off...I think...

[jefals]

By all accounts, GPS accuracy is greatly improved with continuous activity while hiking.

Can you expound on this a little?
Do you have an idea how far off it might be when you first turn it on and remain still? (Say you're hurt and need help, so you turn it on).
Will the accuracy then improve over time, if you remain still? In other words, by the time they're getting close to you, will the accuracy have improved - or does it not change unless you're moving?
~~~
Or will they be lookin for you on the AT while you're dying on the PCT???

[TX Aggie]

Can you expound on this a little?
Do you have an idea how far off it might be when you first turn it on and remain still? (Say you're hurt and need help, so you turn it on).
Will the accuracy then improve over time, if you remain still? In other words, by the time they're getting close to you, will the accuracy have improved - or does it not change unless you're moving?
~~~
Or will they be lookin for you on the AT while you're dying on the PCT???

If there’s a continuous path, they can see your direction on the Trail and a general idea of your pace. If for example your emergency is you fell into a ravine and the unit can’t get an accurate fix but can still get the distress out, the breadcrumb Trail can give them a better idea of where you Time plot would put you.

[TX Aggie]

I no longer record tracks on my phone. The Suunto Ambit does a flawless job with that. Its navigation feature set is outstanding as well. I'll push the tracks out to Gaia once I'm home, so I see them on the phones map.. otherwise the tracking on the phone will I'll the battery in no time.

Hadn't thought about turning off Bluetooth. Good idea.

Still can't find the battery display on the mini.. I do see the mini's battery status in Earthmate.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

What kind of battery life are you getting on the Suunto?

[nsherry61]

I can't speak for the InReach Mini, but my son is hiking the PCT with the InReach Explorer. I know that, in general, a modern GPS that is given a few minutes to dial in it's location is typically accurate to within 3 to 10 meters. When my son does not turn off his Garmin InReach while sleeping it provides pings every hour that can easily vary in location by 100 meter although most of the time is is more like 10 to 30 meters. If Garmin chose to turn on the GPS for a few minutes before sending it's location ping (you actually might be able to control this options, I don't know) I'm sure it could be accurate to the 3 to 10 meter range.

[Nanatuk]

GPS accuracy is dependent on the number of satellites in view. If your sky view is limited, i.e. in a ravine, you may not have enough satellites in view to get an accurate position calculation when you initially power on the device. Having your GPS ON and calculating your position continuously will ensure you have a reasonably accurate position solution at any given time in case of an emergency situation.

When you power on your GPS, the farther you are from the last known position, the longer it will take to determine your new position. Older GPS devices could take 1/2 hour to determine accurate location after a cross country flight, but chipsets have gotten much better and can find position quicker than they used to. GPS receivers can still take 10's of minutes, but devices like cell phones now use multiple sources (GPS. cell signal, wifi etc) to speed up the calculation and more quickly find your current location.

[jefals]

I can't speak for the InReach Mini, but my son is hiking the PCT with the InReach Explorer. I know that, in general, a modern GPS that is given a few minutes to dial in it's location is typically accurate to within 3 to 10 meters.

So, I get hurt. I turn it on. I'm stationary. It already takes a little time to get a location, but once it does, is that initial location accurate to within 3 to 10 meters? Or, after a few minutes will it display a different, more accurate location?

How does this statement - that after a few minutes it's accurate within 3 to 10 meters, gel with your later statement that during the night it's off by maybe 100 meters?

[jefals]

Good info Nanotuk.

[Venchka]

Can you expound on this a little?
Do you have an idea how far off it might be when you first turn it on and remain still? (Say you're hurt and need help, so you turn it on).
Will the accuracy then improve over time, if you remain still? In other words, by the time they're getting close to you, will the accuracy have improved - or does it not change unless you're moving?
~~~
Or will they be lookin for you on the AT while you're dying on the PCT???

Scenario #1:
You’re hiking.
InReach off.
You have an accident.
You’re unable to turn the InReach on.
You’re unable to send an SOS.
GPS accuracy is irrelevant.
Nobody will be looking for you.
Scenario #2:
You’re hiking.
InReach on.
GPS track is transmitted to Garmin’s Emergency Center and your family’s phones and or computers.
Your track stops.
You’re incapable of activating the SOS.
Your family is concerned. Sends a text to you. No reply in a reasonable time frame.
They contact GEOS.
Someone starts looking for you.
Enough expounding?
Daylight: InReach on.
Dark: InReach may be off only if you remember to turn it on during daylight hours.
Wayne

[jefals]

Not really. The question is about your comment that the device's accuracy is greatly improved with continuous activity with the device turned on. Focus on DEVICE ACCURACY. Not on having an accident, can't turn the device on, family getting concerned -- all that stuff. I'll give you points -- good smart-ass reply, tho, and I would expect nothing less!

Meanwhile, others have actually addressed the issue. Thanks Nanatuk, good info!

[Venchka]

I bought my first GPS unit in 2003. It’s still working. I learned this stuff a long time ago.
GOOGLE knows too.
Please excuse my shorthand.
If a GPS device is not turned on it is useless excess weight.
Wayne

[Venchka]

GPS accuracy PLUS a continuous track record combine to provide the best chance of SAR finding you in a minimum amount of time.
Finding you can be measured in hours or days. It depends on several factors beyond GPS tracking and accuracy. Suffice to say that a Seal Team 6 squad won’t be rappelling from a Blackhawk to rescue you in an hour or two. If you’re 2-3 days from a trailhead it could take that long for a rescue team to reach you.
Wayne

[HooKooDooKu]

GPS accuracy is dependent on the number of satellites in view. If your sky view is limited, i.e. in a ravine, you may not have enough satellites in view to get an accurate position calculation when you initially power on the device. Having your GPS ON and calculating your position continuously will ensure you have a reasonably accurate position solution at any given time in case of an emergency situation.

When you power on your GPS, the farther you are from the last known position, the longer it will take to determine your new position. Older GPS devices could take 1/2 hour to determine accurate location after a cross country flight, but chipsets have gotten much better and can find position quicker than they used to. GPS receivers can still take 10's of minutes, but devices like cell phones now use multiple sources (GPS. cell signal, wifi etc) to speed up the calculation and more quickly find your current location.

Putting aside the Garmin InReach, the delays you speak of are very real for just cell phones...

When you're in range of a cell towers, the cell phone can instantly determine it's general location simply by identifying what cell towers it is in communication with, the relative strength of those signals, and the known GPS coordinates of the cell towers. It then augments that information with GPS to pin point it's location.

When I was hiking the JMT (where cell signals are usually absent), each time I passed a trail intersection, I would fire up my phone and Guthook app just to ensure I was still on the correct trail. The phone ONLY had GPS signals to determine its position, and it frequently took upwards of 15 minutes to get an accurate position.

[jefals]

I bought my first GPS unit in 2003. It’s still working. I learned this stuff a long time ago.
GOOGLE knows too.
Please excuse my shorthand
If a GPS device is not turned on it is useless excess weight.
Wayne

They've probably improved since 2003.
Not sure I agree that a GPS device not turned on is useless excess weight. If it's turned off, it can be turned on. You might as well say a tent inside your backpack is useless excess weight, right?

[jefals]

OK, I'm done!

[nsherry61]

So, I get hurt. I turn it on. I'm stationary. It already takes a little time to get a location, but once it does, is that initial location accurate to within 3 to 10 meters? Or, after a few minutes will it display a different, more accurate location?

How does this statement - that after a few minutes it's accurate within 3 to 10 meters, gel with your later statement that during the night it's off by maybe 100 meters?

When my son's InReach is sending out its hourly ping, my understanding is that it is turning its GPS radio on getting a location, sending that location and then turning the GPS radio off. The InReach is on all the time in some reduced power consumption mode, but then turns on the GPS radio, the real power sucker, only long enough to get a location and transmit it to a satellite.

However, if I understand things correctly, if you press the SOS button, the InReach turns on the GPS radio and immediately sends your location (100 m accuracy?) along with a distress message. BUT, it then stays on and continues to update your location with improved accuracy (3 to 10 m?) over the next period of time. It also will receive an SOS confirmation message, that your message got through, and you will be in touch with emergency response personnel through its texting ability so that the rescue response can be more accurately tailored to you needs such as a helicopter evacuation or just ground personnel assistance.

. . . Finding you can be measured in hours or days. It depends on several factors beyond GPS tracking and accuracy. Suffice to say that a Seal Team 6 squad won’t be rappelling from a Blackhawk to rescue you in an hour or two. If you’re 2-3 days from a trailhead it could take that long for a rescue team to reach you.

As noted above, with two-way communication via the Garmin InReach, your cell phone, the new Spot-X or whatever, rescues are being more appropriately tailored to the emergency. So it is quite likely that, depending on your needs and location you will in deed be airlifted, aided by ground personnel or even just assisted with information via text.

[Venchka]

OK, I'm done!

Me too.
Wayne

[MikekiM]

I don't know you gents well enough to opine on the keyboard fisticuffs... but the thread has proven useful me either way. Thank you.

If you push the power button, it will show you the pct left in the battery.
Not sure how much turning off Bluetooth will save. (Are we still talking about turning off Bluetooth on the mini, or turning off Bluetooth on the phone)?
I think my tracking on my test yesterday was set to 10 minutes. Trying again today with it turned off...I think...

So with all the times I have powered the unit on or off, I never noticed that. Thank you. I thought I saw a display that had the battery capacity in large bold characters. Either way, when I called Garmin, the service person was adamant that nowhere in the unit does it display the actual percentage. I feel very uneasy about anything else that person told me...

I turn BT off on both devices between messaging. I rely on the Mini's audible alert to let me know when a message is in or out. If I am leisurely, I'll go through pairing and use the Earthmate app. Otherwise, I read the message on the Mini and decide what to do next.

If there’s a continuous path, they can see your direction on the Trail and a general idea of your pace. If for example your emergency is you fell into a ravine and the unit can’t get an accurate fix but can still get the distress out, the breadcrumb Trail can give them a better idea of where you Time plot would put you.

This is a stand-out for me. Makes a lot of sense to have the continuous tracking info regardless of how long the send intervals are. That said, I would certainly subscribe to full time tracking if I were backpacking the back country. I don't. My longest trips are but a handful of days and rarely am I that remote.. sadly. There certainly have been trails and scrambles I have navigates that offered a thousand ways to create a mechanical injury, fall or hit my head and that's why I carry it and why I leave it on.

Additionally, one factor being overlooked in the conversation above is that this is a two way communication device. Not just an SOS alert. Once you deploy the SOS, assuming you are conscious and have the unit on your person, you have the opportunity to communicate with you family as well as the SAR team to refine your position and situation. For my needs, this is tremendously comforting.

What kind of battery life are you getting on the Suunto?

Holy smokes.. that thing is crazy. I won't quote the battery life for this past trip, but I know I had it tracking three treks over three days.. all day treks..plus running full navigation of the routes and I'll venture a guess that it was probably at better than 80%. I'll never hit the trail without the Ambit.

GPS accuracy PLUS a continuous track record combine to provide the best chance of SAR finding you in a minimum amount of time.....

This makes a lot of sense, though it isn't entirely applicable to how I use or rely on the InReach.

[DuneElliot]

What a ridiculous argument above me

It takes my InReach 2 minutes to find me and send a pre-set check-in message from the time I turn it on in the evening or morning, push the send button, to the time I turn it off, 5 minutes later...no issue with accuracy at all. It has been accurate to my exact location...every...single...time. I only use it for check-ins morning and evening; if I miss two check-ins my people know my route and my last known location and know exactly which cavalry to call.

PLBs, like the one W carries, don't use tracking either and he advocates for them over lower-powered devices (or at least he did with us in Wyoming).

Buy what you want, for what you need for YOU and your family.

[jefals]

I don't know you gents well enough to opine on the keyboard fisticuffs... but the thread has proven useful me either way. Thank you. >>

Me and Wayne email each other about 30 times a day. He just sent me a recipe for grits and grillards. He knows he can tell me whatever he wants in an email, but he chooses to "educate" me via this public forum. Anything else wouldn't be natural!

So with all the times I have powered the unit on or off, I never noticed that. Thank you. I thought I saw a display that had the battery capacity in large bold characters. >>
Somethin else I discovered; When you see something in big bold letters, that's the one you'll be working with if you press the OK button. For instance, if you want to change something in the setup, you scroll thru the stuff on the menu with the up/down buttons on the left, till you see SETUP in big/bold. Then press OK.


Either way, when I called Garmin, the service person was adamant that nowhere in the unit does it display the actual percentage. I feel very uneasy about anything else that person told me...>>

I had that experience also. Guy had no idea what he was talking about. If I call them again, I'm going to start off by asking if he's a technical guy, or if he's in sales, and to please transfer me to someone with technical. Or maybe I'll just take it to REI. There's usually someone there that knows these things.

I turn BT off on both devices between messaging. I rely on the Mini's audible alert to let me know when a message is in or out. If I am leisurely, I'll go through pairing and use the Earthmate app. Otherwise, I read the message on the Mini and decide what to do next.>>
Didn't know it had an audible alert. Thanks! With my ears, I just probably never heard it. (And likely never will!) But I love that earthmate app, and wouldn't use the device without it. You can even send an SOS with that app.




This is a stand-out for me. Makes a lot of sense to have the continuous tracking info regardless of how long the send intervals are. That said, I would certainly subscribe to full time tracking if I were backpacking the back country. I don't. My longest trips are but a handful of days and rarely am I that remote.. sadly. There certainly have been trails and scrambles I have navigates that offered a thousand ways to create a mechanical injury, fall or hit my head and that's why I carry it and why I leave it on. >>
I'm about convinced to start using it for tracking. Some of the stuff I've heard here sounds like it does make sense -- like if you wind up somewhere where there's too much cover overhead. Assuming I can run a test and get the kind of battery life I'm supposed to be able to.

Additionally, one factor being overlooked in the conversation above is that this is a two way communication device. Not just an SOS alert. Once you deploy the SOS, assuming you are conscious and have the unit on your person, you have the opportunity to communicate with you family as well as the SAR team to refine your position and situation. For my needs, this is tremendously comforting. >>

yes! absolutely!


Holy smokes.. that thing is crazy. I won't quote the battery life for this past trip, but I know I had it tracking three treks over three days.. all day treks..plus running full navigation of the routes and I'll venture a guess that it was probably at better than 80%. I'll never hit the trail without the Ambit.


This makes a lot of sense, though it isn't entirely applicable to how I use or rely on the InReach.

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