Base Weight

[Feral Bill]

It's still a useful metric, so long it as included all the clothing which will be carried most of the time. If you mostly hike in a t-shirt and shorts, that weight is insignificant in comparison to your overall body weight.

You should always aim for the lowest pack weight you can manage for a given situation. A one or two night on the first day of Summer takes less gear then a week in April.

True enough, I like a light pack. I'm not so fond of dishonesty, especially in an activity that I don't see as a competition.

[cmoulder]

Clothing worn, which can be anywhere from a couple to several pounds is not counted as base weight. You still have to lug it.

I understand this. When it is carried it is base weight. I thought this was axiomatic.

You can click my geargrams link in my sig to see how this is handled.

[Two Tents]

I understand this. When it is carried it is base weight. I thought this was axiomatic.
You can click my geargrams link in my sig to see how this is handled.

And all the consumables plus the base weight of your pack is your pack weight. Pack weight plus what you are wearing is the skin out weight.

[MuddyWaters]

Yea but in the end I still get my groceries. Don't be in a hurry to condemn me cause I don't do what you do or think as you think or hike as fast or as far. Once you carry less its tough to go back to carrying more. There was a time when you didn't know the things you know today. Its all good. Just sayin. Peace, Two Tents

Didn't condemn anything.

But don't tell me I can't have observations or opinions.

Most fit active long distance hikers , maintain an aerobic workload. As you reduce their weight, the mileage and speed automatically will go up, because it can. There's great freedom in being able to resupplying once every hundred miles or more, instead of once every 30. It opens opportunities to you that you simply don't have at heavy weights and lower mileage. Not everywhere is like the AT.

Not to mention hiking opportunities.
Cant take 6 weeks off work to hike? Trails become shorter at 150 miles per week .
Much shorter at 220+ for exceptional people.

[Feral Bill]

n There's great freedom in being able to resupplying once every hundred miles or more, instead of once every 30. It opens opportunities to you that you simply don't have at heavy weights and lower mileage.

There are a number of places in the west that slowpokes like me would find very difficult for this reason. More an age and conditioning thing for me, but a few less pounds wouldn't hurt.

[MuddyWaters]

There are a number of places in the west that slowpokes like me would find very difficult for this reason. More an age and conditioning thing for me, but a few less pounds wouldn't hurt.

Precisely.
For instance one can hike the big SEKI loop
It's the best part of the JMT as well as awsome areas of SEKI.
It's 160 miles.
But no ability to resupply.

Back to the point there's people who think that base weight is about bragging rights
And those people simply don't understand the ramifications of weight carried.
And yeah there's a lot of newbies that make up gear list on geargrams wanting to be UL without ever having set foot on a trail...... And they dont understand the reasons you need it. It's not really about "comfort". Some of my hardest hurting days have been with my lowest weights carried. The reason, is because those are also some of my highest mileage days.

[Malto]

Precisely.
For instance one can hike the big SEKI loop
It's the best part of the JMT as well as awsome areas of SEKI.
It's 160 miles.
But no ability to resupply.

Back to the point there's people who think that base weight is about bragging rights
And those people simply don't understand the ramifications of weight carried.
And yeah there's a lot of newbies that make up gear list on geargrams wanting to be UL without ever having set foot on a trail...... And they dont understand the reasons you need it. It's not really about "comfort". Some of my hardest hurting days have been with my lowest weights carried. The reason, is because those are also some of my highest mileage days.

You perfectly articulated why I both reduced pack weight and started doing much higher hiking days. I was traveling one week a month to Ca and was backpacking in the Sierra usually for three days every trip. As I learned of all the cool places in Kings Canyon and Yosemite a lightweight, "fast" style was needed to see all of those hidden gems. It had nothing to do with bragging rights or irrelevant spreadsheets. Likewise, it enabled me to hike many midrange and long trails in vacation chunks. I even has able to thru hike the PCT. No way could I have taken a 5 month leave of absence, but a 100 day combination of vacation and a much shorter leave of absence was feasibible both financially for me and acceptable for my employer.

[Dogwood]

...Most fit active long distance hikers , maintain an aerobic workload. As you(we) reduce their(our) weight, the mileage and speed automatically will go up, because it can. There's great freedom in being able to resupplying once every hundred miles or more, instead of once every 30. It opens opportunities to you that you simply don't have at heavy weights and lower mileage. Not everywhere is like the AT.

Not to mention hiking opportunities.
Cant take 6 weeks off work to hike? Trails become shorter at 150 miles per week .
Much shorter at 220+ for exceptional people.

Precisely.
For instance one can hike the big SEKI loop
It's the best part of the JMT as well as awsome areas of SEKI.
It's 160 miles.
But no ability to resupply.

Back to the point there's people who think that base weight is about bragging rights
And those people simply don't understand the ramifications of weight carried.
And yeah there's a lot of newbies that make up gear list on geargrams wanting to be UL without ever having set foot on a trail...... And they dont understand the reasons you need it. It's not really about "comfort". Some of my hardest hurting days have been with my lowest weights carried. The reason, is because those are also some of my highest mileage days.

For me having an appropriate lighter wt and lower volume kit does very much include comfort, less fatigue, which equates to less risk of hike ending injury. As one inclined to LD it equates to having endurance over man weeks, perhaps 6-12 months. It's not just about making hikes of shorter duration through bigger MPD avgs or spreading out distance between resupply although that can be a big benefit. The UL/SUL kit is part of what can potentially make it happen but the kit is just a tool, one aspect of several that brings many things together to potentially make for higher mileage days(IF desired), greater speed(IF desired), faster hikes, and lowered risk of injury. An UL kit without the skill set to match the hike and uh meh one still probably isn't going to hike mega mileage.

[cmoulder]

Indeed, although a well-honed UL kit, excellent fitness and top notch skill set are mandatory for these huge distances, one needn't do mega mileage to appreciate the benefits of hiking with a light pack.

[Dogwood]

Indeed, although a well-honed UL kit, excellent fitness and top notch skill set are mandatory for these huge distances, one needn't do mega mileage to appreciate the benefits of hiking with a light pack.

One of the influences GoLite marketing had was associating going lighter with going faster...and that was often associated with doing bigger MPD. That association is deeply embedded in many hiker's psyche. That's all fine but it doesn't have to be "the" only reason for always going lighter.


There's another way of looking at it in regard to resupply too. For example, if the non consumables portion of one's kit is UL and low bulk then it allows some wt and volume wiggle room for larger food hauls (and maybe H2O), food hauls of a greater number of days. This too is another way of approaching longer distances between resupply. Going lighter doesn't mean you have to always associate it with going faster or avg bigger MPD avgs.


This works in reverse too! Minimize food wt and food bulk(and H2O) and it translates into having wiggle room for possibly some "luxuries" or other desired gear.


Lowering wt and bulk of non consumable kit categories also allows the option of bringing along some fresh "living" food or some coffee or tea, etc. Trade Offs are allowed. HYOH.

[Slo-go'en]

I'm finding a 15 pound load (leaving the trail head) is a lot kinder on my knees then a 20 or 25 pound load is. Which has made a hugh difference in White Mnt hiking with it's insanely steep trail and boulder climbs. I might not be going much faster or further, but I don't hurt as much at the end of the day doing it. These poor knees have seen some abuse over the years.

Currently I'm limited to 2.5 days of non-cook food and need a couple of rain free nights to keep the total load under 15 pounds and fit into my 30L North Face day pack. The NF pack is a little on the heavy side, but am willing to suffer the extra pound for durability and comfort. Thankfully, I can time my trips to coincide with ideal weather - like the next 2.5 days...

[DownYonder]

One of the influences GoLite marketing had was associating going lighter with going faster...and that was often associated with doing bigger MPD. That association is deeply embedded in many hiker's psyche. That's all fine but it doesn't have to be "the" only reason for always going lighter.


There's another way of looking at it in regard to resupply too. For example, if the non consumables portion of one's kit is UL and low bulk then it allows some wt and volume wiggle room for larger food hauls (and maybe H2O), food hauls of a greater number of days. This too is another way of approaching longer distances between resupply. Going lighter doesn't mean you have to always associate it with going faster or avg bigger MPD avgs.


This works in reverse too! Minimize food wt and food bulk(and H2O) and it translates into having wiggle room for possibly some "luxuries" or other desired gear.


Lowering wt and bulk of non consumable kit categories also allows the option of bringing along some fresh "living" food or some coffee or tea, etc. Trade Offs are allowed. HYOH.

I agree with your sentiment 100%. I will add that going lighter can extend one's hiking career. For some reason, mountaineering with 50+ lbs was doable 20 yrs ago but not anymore.

[reppans]

I'm finding a 15 pound load (leaving the trail head) is a lot kinder on my knees then a 20 or 25 pound load is. Which has made a hugh difference in White Mnt hiking with it's insanely steep trail and boulder climbs. I might not be going much faster or further, but I don't hurt as much at the end of the day doing it. These poor knees have seen some abuse over the years.

Currently I'm limited to 2.5 days of non-cook food and need a couple of rain free nights to keep the total load under 15 pounds and fit into my 30L North Face day pack. The NF pack is a little on the heavy side, but am willing to suffer the extra pound for durability and comfort. Thankfully, I can time my trips to coincide with ideal weather - like the next 2.5 days...

Nice.. I'm pretty close that tot. pack weight for a 2.5D... say ~6lbs consumables, 4lbs pack/change clothes, and 5lbs of camping gear? (except that includes rain gear, double wall tent, and stove/pot)

[Nodust]

For some reason, mountaineering with 50+ lbs was doable 20 yrs ago but not anymore.

Plus as I get older I get more forgetful. Less stuff to keep track of helps

[Shaker]

Base weight is relative to the hiker. A 6'2" 200-lb man with broad shoulders is going to need a bigger quilt, pad, tent, clothes, etc. than a 100-lb 5'2" female.

I personally carry everything I want in an external frame pack and tie several large helium balloons to it to offset the weight.

Shaker

[George]

I personally carry everything I want in an external frame pack and tie several large helium balloons to it to offset the weight.

Shaker

I want to take this a little farther till I have a NEGATIVE base weight

[spfleisig]

My total weight for my weeklong trip this july will be right at 15 lbs including 2 liters of water, 16 oz of Jack Daniels and food for 4 days

How do you do that! I must be doing something very wrong. I have a HMG Windrider 2400 (that I can't fit all my stuff in), a very small 45* bag, Neoair Xlite pad and a TarpTent StratoSpire 1.

[CalebJ]

How do you do that! I must be doing something very wrong. I have a HMG Windrider 2400 (that I can't fit all my stuff in), a very small 45* bag, Neoair Xlite pad and a TarpTent StratoSpire 1.

15 pounds is hard to fathom. Even assuming 1.5 pounds of food per day (I hover closer to 2), that's 6 pounds of food, 1 pound of Jack, and 4 pounds of water. 4 pounds remaining for pack, shelter, sleeping bag/quilt, pad, etc? It's possible, but would have to be ultralight across the board for sure.

[DownYonder]

How do you do that! I must be doing something very wrong. I have a HMG Windrider 2400 (that I can't fit all my stuff in), a very small 45* bag, Neoair Xlite pad and a TarpTent StratoSpire 1.

Not that difficult. Explained in this article: https://thetrek.co/hike_naked_day_2015/

[George]

How do you do that! I must be doing something very wrong. I have a HMG Windrider 2400 (that I can't fit all my stuff in), a very small 45* bag, Neoair Xlite pad and a TarpTent StratoSpire 1.

air right, you asked: a 45 ish degree (night temp) setup:

MLD core 28 - modified with a padded hip belt 11oz

borah cuban bivy 5oz

gate wood cape, strings and carbon fiber stakes 14oz

gossamer gear 1/4 in foam pad, trimmed 4.5oz

sea to summit 35 degree mummy 17.5 oz

fuel tab kitchen 3oz

water bottles 3oz

stuff sack 1.5oz

toilet paper, aqua mira, + all other 11oz

base wt 4.4lb



not in pack:

shorts, wind shirt, socks and sun hat 12oz

shoes 22oz

carbon fiber stick 10 oz

total 42oz



start or leaving town consumables:

liquid 40oz

food 4days 120oz

fuel tabs 4 days (8 burns) 8oz

total 168oz



skin out wt 17.5lb

pack wt with 4 days consumables 14.9lb


add a spare snickers bar and you have a 15 lb pack wt


it has a full shelter with bug protection,
ability to cook,
and treat water

enough hip belt to avoid misery - the pad inside the pack gives some structure
and a stuff sack to strap on the outside (sleeping bag and tarp), until the food volume goes down

definitely light on clothes - worst case, stay in the sleeping bag until it warms up a bit