Designing a Better Bear Canister

[Coffee]

Experience they are wussies that run away.

Yes.

The times I've come across them in the Appalachians (rarely) they run like deer. Even when I surprised a cub and its mother trail running. Mother sent cub up a tree and then followed. I've never seen one in the Sierra Nevda backcountry. I've seen them in the developed areas of Yosemite. There they have little fear.

[MuddyWaters]

Yes.

The times I've come across them in the Appalachians (rarely) they run like deer. Even when I surprised a cub and its mother trail running. Mother sent cub up a tree and then followed. I've never seen one in the Sierra Nevda backcountry. I've seen them in the developed areas of Yosemite. There they have little fear.

True story
Woman in Yosemite found a bear in in their food.
She threw one of her shoes at the bear and hit it. The bear walked up to her and took the other shoe out of her other hand.

[Bansko]

Bear canisters on the AT? Not necessary at all - not even desirable given the weight penalty.

[abeona]

abeona, assuming you're following up on this thread... a few things to realize (in case you don't already)...

1. Someone recently tried to create a new bear canister... trying to create a solution that was lighter weight and cheaper than what was available. It was a failure. (I believe it was called "Honey Pot" and was a kick-starter campaign. Was "active" as recently as about a year ago, but can't find any evidence of the project with a quick google search anymore).
2. Bears have an incredible sense of smell... I've heard of studies where food was placed in nested ziplock bags and the bear still had no problem finding the food.
The purpose of a bear canister isn't to hide the scent of the food, the purpose of the bear canister is to create a package that frustrates the bear so that after he's learned that he can't get into the canister, he quits trying in the future when he encounters the same object and knows he can't get into it.
3. Personal judgement call... but I believe the concept of building an expandable bear canister is a fool's errand. I don't think it is going to be possible to build a bear canister that can change size AND still keep out a bear without increasing the weight such that the expand-ability just isn't worth it. Perhaps the only possible exception would be some sort of setup where two bear canisters could be combined (i.e. the lid and canister is designed in such a way that a second bear canister could substitute as a lid).

Thanks for the suggestions! Right now, we're considering a design similar to the one you mentioned (substituting a second part as a lid). As we play around with different designs, we'll evaluate whether or not the ability to adjust bear canister volumes compensates enough for the weight penalty incurred.

[abeona]

Another one that did not happen is this one :
http://www.trailspace.com/blog/2011/...arier-700.html
they usually fail because they don't pass the tests set by the relevant authorities.

Thanks for sharing! We had heard about Hunny Cannisters, but this one is not as well known.

[abeona]

Now that you know everything you need to know about bear canisters, can you guys make a food canister with a lid on the top and bottom? That way when you get low on the sugar, flour or whatever, you can just fill it up and turn it over - and now the older stuff is on top.
If you make it, I'll buy the first set!

Thanks for the suggestion That would be a great product to have.

[abeona]

Everything University of Chicago students need to know about bears can be found here: http://www.chicagobears.com.


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Haha they're certainly the most active bears in the city

[abeona]

Thanks so much for all the comments, feedback, and responses to the survey so far! We really appreciate your input. We also wanted to share a friendly reminder that there are ~23 hours remaining to respond to the survey and qualify for the chance to win an Amazon gift card!

[Hatchet_1697]

What materials are you looking at using? A round Carbon fiber design is light but doesn’t hold up well to the lateral pressures of a bear bouncing on it with its front paws, or rolling it off a cliff onto rocks, tends to split open. Polycarbonate canisters like the bear vault already exist. I’d be curious if a carbon fiber/Dyneema hybrid composite with a smooth slick outer material (to keep the bear from getting leverage) would work. I know, I know... way too grey beard engineer geeky for this forum, does your team have a website?


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[abeona]

What materials are you looking at using? A round Carbon fiber design is light but doesn’t hold up well to the lateral pressures of a bear bouncing on it with its front paws, or rolling it off a cliff onto rocks, tends to split open. Polycarbonate canisters like the bear vault already exist. I’d be curious if a carbon fiber/Dyneema hybrid composite with a smooth slick outer material (to keep the bear from getting leverage) would work. I know, I know... way too grey beard engineer geeky for this forum, does your team have a website?


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We appreciate the help brainstorming! We still haven't finalized our material selection or created a website yet, but we're aiming to do so in the next few weeks. We'll let you know when the website (with material details) is up! Would love to get your thoughts on our initial design ideas.

[imscotty]

I was camped in Yosemite at a designated backcountry site that was having bear issues. The ranger instructed all the campers in the area to store our canisters together 'tied up' to a tree. We did. Sure enough that evening mother and cub came along to steal the food. Several hikers making noise and throwing small rocks was not a deterrent to momma bear. The bear finally made off into the woods with someones polycarbonate canister. My Bearikade was left behind.

Once bears have been acclimated to human food they are difficult to deter.

When not directed otherwise by a backcountry ranger my preference is to store my canister in sight of my tent with my stove on top as was suggested. I also try to find a natural depression to place it in so it cannot be easily rolled away.

[Fredt4]

I was camped in Yosemite at a designated backcountry site that was having bear issues. The ranger instructed all the campers in the area to store our canisters together 'tied up' to a tree. We did. Sure enough that evening mother and cub came along to steal the food. Several hikers making noise and throwing small rocks was not a deterrent to momma bear. The bear finally made off into the woods with someones polycarbonate canister. My Bearikade was left behind.

Once bears have been acclimated to human food they are difficult to deter.

When not directed otherwise by a backcountry ranger my preference is to store my canister in sight of my tent with my stove on top as was suggested. I also try to find a natural depression to place it in so it cannot be easily rolled away.

“The mothering cub issue is somewhat of an urban myth when it comes to black bears. That’s more of a brown bear situation,” said Jamie Sajecki, black bear project leader for the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries. “Black bears have a different strategy when threatened. They’ll tend to send their cubs up a tree, then come back later and get them when the threat is gone.”
"Sajecki added that the state has never recorded a fatality as a result of an attack, saying that black bears like to avoid contact with humans."

[MuddyWaters]

“The mothering cub issue is somewhat of an urban myth when it comes to black bears. That’s more of a brown bear situation,” said Jamie Sajecki, black bear project leader for the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries. “Black bears have a different strategy when threatened. They’ll tend to send their cubs up a tree, then come back later and get them when the threat is gone.”
"Sajecki added that the state has never recorded a fatality as a result of an attack, saying that black bears like to avoid contact with humans."

Black bears innately consider us to be the grizzly bears they evolved to fear. Until they learn otherwise, and that we are tasty...

[Feral Bill]

Black bears innately consider us to be the grizzly bears they evolved to fear. Until they learn otherwise, and that we are tasty...

And modern Americans are so well marbled.

[mateozzz]

I had to turn off my ad blocker to get it to work.

I would use a bear canister all the time if it wasn't a big weight penalty, say less than 2 pounds for a real 6 days of food. That would avoid the hassle of having to hang it every night, sometimes more than once if I forgot to put something in it or need to get something out. If it could replace something in my pack that would help out the weight equation, but I haven't thought of anything since I normally don't carry a stool or a frying pad (lid). If the canister *was* the pack, then that might be something, although I don't want food scent all over my stuff either. Maybe it could be part of the pack and hold water, too. Just brainstorming...

I understand a danger with bear canisters is bears rolling them away, even over cliffs to break them or so far away that hikers can't find them, even if they are still intact. Why don't bear canisters have a way to fasten them to a tree, boulder, etc.?

BTW, I tried the link multiple times. It never opened, just "churned" and "churned."

[martinb]

I've been using a Bare Boxer for a few trips and it's worth the weight penalty. Don't have to worry about finding the right branch, no throws, no worries about meece, and it fits in the top of the pack quite easily. At night, I stash it in some bushes to make it hard to move around. I do not see a bear swatting this thing for hundreds of yards, or similar, as it has a tendency to move in circles if you swat the ends (yes, I tried).

[Venchka]

The Bearikades, Weekender and Expedition, are quite popular for trips in the approximate range of 5 to 10 days. If you could design an adjustable canister that mimicked those two canisters you might have a winner.
Good luck!
Wayne

[Feral Bill]

If expand-ability is a serious goal, you could have two halves that are threaded to screw together, with a center section that can be screwed in between.

[dcdennis]

Now that you know everything you need to know about bear canisters, can you guys make a food canister with a lid on the top and bottom? That way when you get low on the sugar, flour or whatever, you can just fill it up and turn it over - and now the older stuff is on top.
If you make it, I'll buy the first set!

lol you want someone to engineer a double lidded canister because you are too lazy to dump your food out and repack it? XD hehehehe

[Leo L.]

If expand-ability is a serious goal, you could have two halves that are threaded to screw together, with a center section that can be screwed in between.

You mean something similar like this?
https://www.amazon.de/BD-Werkzeugtec.../dp/B00LOIEJE0
(the package, not the content)