Any specific training to help with knee pain from descents

[Puddlefish]

Shorter steps downhill.

[MuddyWaters]

When people say "knee", it means different things.

Most time, its actually tendonitis of muscles around the knee thats the issue. No swelling with tendonitis.

If the knee swells up like a grapefruit....its actually the knee.

[john844]

My training hikes were typically up and down a mountain gaining 1200' over 1.9 miles and reversing. I did this hike about 4 times a week with longer hikes on Saturdays with similar climbs.

The recent multi day hike that had noticeable increased pain in descents was 4 days on the AT. Approach trail to unicoi gap.
Day 1: 12 miles Approach to just before Three Forks
Day 2: 12 miles Three Forks to Gooch Gap
Day 3: 17 miles Gooch Gap to a few miles past Neels Gap
Day 4: 17 miles a few miles past Neels Gap to Unicoi Gap

I don't have the profiles in front of me for the elevation changes over the 4 days.

Can we get some details please?
Distance. Time. Elevation drop.
Thanks.
Wayne

[john844]

No swelling. Pain was right below kneecap and behind kneecap. No popping like a torn meniscus or anything like that. Just annoying pain that would build during descents.

After being home for 3 days, I don't have any lingering pain.

My gut says it's overuse/over train issue. With the knowledge base here I figured I would get some valuable advise either way.

Thanks,
John

When people say "knee", it means different things.

Most time, its actually tendonitis of muscles around the knee thats the issue. No swelling with tendonitis.

If the knee swells up like a grapefruit....its actually the knee.

[martinb]

What footwear are you using?

[john844]

What footwear are you using?

Salewa trail running shoes. They are pretty light weight, but not Altra Lone peak light weight.

[john844]

Now that I wrote down the mileages, I am seeing some indicators of why I ran into issues.

The jump in mileage was more severe than I thought it was. Although I was hiking regularly and felt great, the increase in daily mileage was a bit drastic. I think my knee pain was just the first and most obvious symptom.

I will have to be much more careful when I do the JMT this summer.

If the pain returns on my next hike, I will make a call to see a sports Dr.

[Venchka]

My training hikes were typically up and down a mountain gaining 1200' over 1.9 miles and reversing. I did this hike about 4 times a week with longer hikes on Saturdays with similar climbs.

The recent multi day hike that had noticeable increased pain in descents was 4 days on the AT. Approach trail to unicoi gap.
Day 1: 12 miles Approach to just before Three Forks
Day 2: 12 miles Three Forks to Gooch Gap
Day 3: 17 miles Gooch Gap to a few miles past Neels Gap
Day 4: 17 miles a few miles past Neels Gap to Unicoi Gap

I don't have the profiles in front of me for the elevation changes over the 4 days.

Thank you! That’s way more miles and elevation change than I’ve done. I’m no help. Hope you get well soon.
Wayne

[Deadeye]

Wall squats

[john844]

Wall squats

I was doing these as part of the my workouts, but have fallen out of the routine the last month or so. These are tough, but I will get them back in the rotation.

[john844]

When people say old to me, I say experienced to them. I will concede that as we age, things that never bothered us before, now can cause us pain but if done in moderation can be handled without strong pain killers or surgery (unless something gets torn or damaged). I know that trekking poles help me on both the ups and downs. As pointed out in another thread, it's the downs that cause the most damaged. Take your time and learned to use trekking poles to absorb and carry a lot of your weight. Of course carrying a light pack helps, as long as people don't go stupidiot light. Don't let someone else dictate what you need to carry, because if everyone was the same, we wouldn't need such a wide selection of gear, as everyone would go for the same equipment. This is just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

Getting "experienced" sucks. LOL But it definitely beats the alternative.

I not getting any younger and am definitely not happy sitting around. I also try not to use pain relievers unless absolutely needed. I have had back issues for many years and know that pain meds allow you to ignore what the body is telling you. That pain to a certain point is what keeps me from pushing things too far. Luckily, I am not anywhere near needing pain meds to manage this pain.

My goal is to minimize the pain and/or damage being done so I can keep doing this as long as possible.

Thanks again for all the advice given by everyone on this thread.

[MkBibble]

Knee pain, mainly downhill, cut my first section short. I resorted to going downhills backwards (oddly that helped), and it took me ALL day to go 6 miles to Woody Gap. While waiting for a ride back to Atlanta at the Hiker Hostel, another hiker introduced me to cho-pat straps; they helped immediately. Before going back the next year I found exercises to increase strength around the knee; I think that helped. Central Texas, where I live, is dreadfully flat, so I practiced going up and down bleachers - first without a pack then with a pack; I think that helped. What i KNOW helped was using poles. The next section, and subsequent sections, I have used poles and had no more issues.

[Night Train]

Yoga, kick board, trail running.

[Traveler]

Now that I wrote down the mileages, I am seeing some indicators of why I ran into issues.

The jump in mileage was more severe than I thought it was. Although I was hiking regularly and felt great, the increase in daily mileage was a bit drastic. I think my knee pain was just the first and most obvious symptom.

Just as a thought, I had a similar problem some years ago when I wanted to increase my mileage. In doing this I also lengthened my stride a few inches to shave some time off each mile. For a while this strategy seemed to work, however I started noticing small problems in my legs and feet and eventually my knees. These were minor problems that came and went but mostly showed up when I was hiking. It was the downhills is where pain in knees and surrounding muscle area eventually increased to the point it took me off the trail for a while.

Returning to trails after a few weeks off, I found my normal stride did not present any issues but when I tried to stretch out my stride for speed my knees and lower legs started letting me know this wouldn't work long term. I later found out from a Doctor that changing one's natural stride like this will impact other areas of the body to accommodate the change. Problems can appear in the ankles and feet, shins, knees, hips, and/or the lower back. When I used my normal stride and used an extra hour or two I reached my mileage goals within my body's tolerance, as opposed to trying to increase the miles per hour that exceeded my body's tolerance. Since then I use a bit more time to make the distances I want. Downhills being the biggest challenge to impact related problems, instead of picking up speed and increasing the footfall impact I shorten my stride, use poles, and use foot placement or use short switchbacking to ease the impact of each footfall.

I'm not sure if this applies to your circumstance or not, however your description reminded me of what I experienced and thought it may be useful information.

[MuddyWaters]

Just as a thought, I had a similar problem some years ago when I wanted to increase my mileage. In doing this I also lengthened my stride a few inches to shave some time off each mile. For a while this strategy seemed to work, however I started noticing small problems in my legs and feet and eventually my knees. These were minor problems that came and went but mostly showed up when I was hiking. It was the downhills is where pain in knees and surrounding muscle area eventually increased to the point it took me off the trail for a while.

Returning to trails after a few weeks off, I found my normal stride did not present any issues but when I tried to stretch out my stride for speed my knees and lower legs started letting me know this wouldn't work long term. I later found out from a Doctor that changing one's natural stride like this will impact other areas of the body to accommodate the change. Problems can appear in the ankles and feet, shins, knees, hips, and/or the lower back. When I used my normal stride and used an extra hour or two I reached my mileage goals within my body's tolerance, as opposed to trying to increase the miles per hour that exceeded my body's tolerance. Since then I use a bit more time to make the distances I want. Downhills being the biggest challenge to impact related problems, instead of picking up speed and increasing the footfall impact I shorten my stride, use poles, and use foot placement or use short switchbacking to ease the impact of each footfall.

I'm not sure if this applies to your circumstance or not, however your description reminded me of what I experienced and thought it may be useful information.

Walk longer, not faster

Haste...makes waste.

Most eventually learn this the hard way.

I broke pole before because I went too fast and slipped on slick rock. Had repetitive motion injuries too. Eventually i learnt....sort of.

[Bansko]

Is there any specific training or exercises that I can do to help alleviate this in the future?

As for prevention; I never did any specific exercises, but I did do a lot of walking with a 30 lb. pack for several months prior to my hike. I was in pretty good shape, but I allowed myself to get a little too confident, taking exuberant, bounding leaps on one particular downhill about 70 miles North of the Springer. I knew I screwed up as soon as my foot hit the ground on one particular leap. I ended up with pretty bad knee pain that lasted for weeks, causing me to consider (briefly) giving up my thru-hike attempt. My advice, for what it's worth, is don't let gravity get the best of you on the downhills. Take them in stride and don't rush things. Fortunately, I healed up. Use those poles. They are pointless on the flats but invaluable on steep inclines and declines.

[john844]

I've always been a competitive person, so I think a lot of the comments are hitting home on that area. I have been working to increase my endurance, strength and speed and have lengthened my stride on flats and uphills. I never experienced any issues directly from that, but the problems could have building in the background and showing up on the downhills. I would imagine that unconsciously I lengthened my stride a bit on them too even though I was trying to focus on controlled steps and lessening impact by keeping knees a bit bent.

This is a wake up call to slow down more and enjoy the trails while I still can.

Thanks again for all of the input.
John

[sethd513]

My knee pain is fixed with running and biking, but also most simply is stretching my calf’s,shins quads IT band hips pretty much everything I know how to below my waste.


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[sethd513]

Oh yea and more bananas


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[egilbe]

I started doing Tai Chi. Seems to work pretty well for strengthening and loosening leg joints.