Doing steps a good way to train?

[Tipi Walter]

Most backpackers won't have the opportunity to carry a 75+lb pack because their trips are either short or their resupply opportunities ample. Their packs COULD get heavier if they want to include more comforts items and a heavier shelter etc etc. Books. Weird fruits like cantaloupe or avocados, even a Watermelon AGHAST.

But BuckeyeBill brings up a good point---the benefits of training with significantly more weight than you will be carrying on the actual trip. Part of backpacking is all about Managing Discomfort---and a big part of backpacking is dealing with long days, tired legs, sore tendons, a sprained brain, cold and exhaustion---Oh and with pack weight on your back.

One way to duplicate such distress IN TRAINING is to carry more weight---in training.

[BuckeyeBill]

You and I clearly interpret the intent of his post differently.

In his first statement about training for backpacking he says"In my Opinion" is steep hills with heavy loads. His third sentence again says something similar "That's Just Me". He didn't say do it this way or you will fail or do it my way or it's the highway. He was just offering an opinion and we know that not all people will agree. You make it sound so stupid to follow his advice that anyone else will suffer incapacitating injury. I have done both the PCT and the CDT and there are times when you are carrying heavier loads because of towns being so far apart. I guess the AT spoils some people with towns located every 3-5 days apart. But this is just "my opinion."

I really enjoy reading Tipi's trip reports, posts, pretty much everything he posts, even though I don't always agree.

But not every poster will be familiar with Tipi so I also think it is a good idea to set realistic expectations for someone who is asking for advice.

You are absolutely correct. Some times I wish I could pack and go for a couple months, but hiking season coincides with car show season. Some local events for charity and then several National events that award them big pretty trophies. Besides I like building cars. As Joe Martin says "We knock out the ugly and put in the cool."

[Mugthumper]

Tipi, I pretty much agree with almost everything you said in the last post.

The issue I have with it is, that it just isn't applicable to the OP. The poster is leaving in a month also stated that they have had IT band issues in the past year. They are currently training with 16 lbs and there is no conceivable way for them safely up their weight to 75 lbs in the time frame.

They would be month more likely to injure themselves instead.

I think it is fine to advise someone to up their intensity for better results, but there has to be some sort of frame of reference.

[CalebJ]

In his first statement about training for backpacking he says"In my Opinion" is steep hills with heavy loads. His third sentence again says something similar "That's Just Me". He didn't say do it this way or you will fail or do it my way or it's the highway. He was just offering an opinion and we know that not all people will agree. You make it sound so stupid to follow his advice that anyone else will suffer incapacitating injury. I have done both the PCT and the CDT and there are times when you are carrying heavier loads because of towns being so far apart. I guess the AT spoils some people with towns located every 3-5 days apart. But this is just "my opinion."

Ugh.

Yes - as I said, there are times when you need to carry heavier loads. For other trails, for what Tipi regularly does, etc.

That does -not- make it a good idea to regularly train with excessive loads like the suggested 75 pounds. It can improve muscle strength, but at the risk of overuse injuries. In a controlled environment, it can be done correctly and safely. Done haphazardly, it can lead to both acute and chronic injuries. There's a reason the military has to cover a lot of disability issues when members get out from regularly working with a flack jacket loaded with interceptor plates, heavy pack, etc...

[Tipi Walter]

Tipi, I pretty much agree with almost everything you said in the last post.

The issue I have with it is, that it just isn't applicable to the OP. The poster is leaving in a month also stated that they have had IT band issues in the past year. They are currently training with 16 lbs and there is no conceivable way for them safely up their weight to 75 lbs in the time frame.

They would be month more likely to injure themselves instead.

I think it is fine to advise someone to up their intensity for better results, but there has to be some sort of frame of reference.

Length of daily hours hiking on the trail could/may/will/maybe not aggravate his current IT band issues. These issues could keep the OP from completing his trip. By training with more weight the OP could duplicate long days hiking with a lighter pack and see if he experiences any IT band issues (but 75 lbs is excessive). In other words, if he hikes 8 to 10 hours a day with a 16 lb pack (or maybe more on the actual hike)---he will find out if he can handle it. This is not something he can do in training.

THEREFORE train with more weight for much shorter periods of time to see if he then has any band issues. The weight in training therefore duplicates the much longer hours during the actual trip.

I agree my 75 lb training weight is way out in left field regarding the OP's situation. I pretty much concentrated on his first thread post and didn't catch the IT band issues until later.

[Mugthumper]

You are absolutely correct. Some times I wish I could pack and go for a couple months, but hiking season coincides with car show season. Some local events for charity and then several National events that award them big pretty trophies. Besides I like building cars. As Joe Martin says "We knock out the ugly and put in the cool."

Oh, I'd absolutely be able to do what Tipi does. Maybe not all the time, because I really like doing more miles, but man would it be nice to just move at a slower pace once in a while and to be able to disconnect from everything. It is really hard for me to shake the feeling that I need to see as much as possible in as short of time possible.

For me its my kids. Still too young to join in for an extended hike although my oldest is getting close. My wife, who is the absolute best, already gave me the green light for a 3-4 month trip, Its just a matter of waiting for my children to all be in school. In the meantime I have to 'settle' for a yearly 3-4 week trips with some weekenders mixed in. I couldn't be luckier.

[CalebJ]

Dang. I'm lucky to get away for a few weekends a year right now. The last time I got a week approved was four years ago.

[BuckeyeBill]

Getting off work when I want to is why I am self employed. Yea the boss is an ahole but he treats us really good.

[Mugthumper]

Last post should say, that I'd love to be able to do what Tipi does. I don't know that I'd be able to though. Seriously, the weight you carry Tipi is pretty hardcore. I've moved about at far as possible in the opposite direction over the past 4 or 5 years and sometimes I really miss the comforts. Hell, this year I'm going back to frameless and scaling down to a 26 liter pack just to see if I can get away with it.

Its funny how leaving out a key word or two completely changes the meaning of what I was trying to say. I read my last post, and was like wait what, that isn't what I was trying to say.

[Mugthumper]

Getting off work when I want to is why I am self employed. Yea the boss is an ahole but he treats us really good.

For me, I guess you could say I 'lucked out' and got laid off a couple weeks before my first child was born. I've been a stay at home father ever since while my wife put in the hours at work. Now she works from home and has basically said that I deserve to get out of the house for some me time. Its sure funny how life works out.

[rocketsocks]

Great way to build quads.

[TexasBob]

You do realize that most of us have no interest whatsoever in carrying a load like that? Obviously it's reasonable for you because you're going out for weeks at a time, but for the rest that's just asking for preventable injuries.

Yeah like falling backward down the stairs when the 75 lb pack pulls you over.

[One Half]

Most backpackers won't have the opportunity to carry a 75+lb pack because their trips are either short or their resupply opportunities ample. Their packs COULD get heavier if they want to include more comforts items and a heavier shelter etc etc. Books. Weird fruits like cantaloupe or avocados, even a Watermelon AGHAST.

But BuckeyeBill brings up a good point---the benefits of training with significantly more weight than you will be carrying on the actual trip. Part of backpacking is all about Managing Discomfort---and a big part of backpacking is dealing with long days, tired legs, sore tendons, a sprained brain, cold and exhaustion---Oh and with pack weight on your back.

One way to duplicate such distress IN TRAINING is to carry more weight---in training.

Agreed. though I would caution someone who is going to carry 25lbs when backpacking that they likely shouldn't "train" with 75lbs. Certainly that would require a different backpack and maybe even different footwear. Last spring I was "training" by doing local training hikes on the "hilly" section of our local park. These weren't even mole hill sized! But I did wear my fully loaded pack and some days I was even able to do 10 miles in the park and then 3750 stairs (5 flights at a time, 75 stairs up) depending on time constraints.

Maybe I should start carrying an extra 10 pounds or so.

[One Half]

Most backpackers won't have the opportunity to carry a 75+lb pack because their trips are either short or their resupply opportunities ample. Their packs COULD get heavier if they want to include more comforts items and a heavier shelter etc etc. Books. Weird fruits like cantaloupe or avocados, even a Watermelon AGHAST.

But BuckeyeBill brings up a good point---the benefits of training with significantly more weight than you will be carrying on the actual trip. Part of backpacking is all about Managing Discomfort---and a big part of backpacking is dealing with long days, tired legs, sore tendons, a sprained brain, cold and exhaustion---Oh and with pack weight on your back.

One way to duplicate such distress IN TRAINING is to carry more weight---in training.

Agreed. though I would caution someone who is going to carry 25lbs when backpacking that they likely shouldn't "train" with 75lbs. Certainly that would require a different backpack and maybe even different footwear. Last spring I was "training" by doing local training hikes on the "hilly" section of our local park. These weren't even mole hill sized! But I did wear my fully loaded pack and some days I was even able to do 10 miles in the park and then 3750 stairs (5 flights at a time, 75 stairs up) depending on time constraints.

Maybe I should start carrying an extra 10 pounds or so.

[Crossup]

I'd like to back up what Tipi says about training with "extra" weight(you pick the numbers). Years ago I dislocated my foot(surgery with screws and pins and a special procedure) and of course I needed PT.

Being about as severe as such injuries can be I was informed that I would have 10 years of pain free function followed by the onset of arthritis which would worsen till I would want to have it fused(also an option at the time of injury)to keep the pain down to where I could walk etc(albeit with a limp).
As an active guy I figured I was doing pretty good to only be aware of my injury for a few minutes in the morning or the day after if I had really stressed it by things like running/jumping. Fast forward 18 years and its beginning to be obvious, despite the extra years, they were right that the fix would not last forever. So I decided if I was going to do some serious hiking, now was the time while I still could.

So I make a plan, start training a couple weeks ahead of departure with a loaded pack(with what I thought would be my load~30lbs). It only took a few days to realize something odd was going on...instead of the strain aggravating the injury it almost seemed like it was improving. By the time I leave I find the 30lbs is seeming a bit lighter and packed up I'm now at 40lbs, oh well the extra 10lbs shouldnt be too big of a deal given the training right?

My wife drops me off and it takes almost no time to realize that my "training" had no doubt helped BUT the trail was an order of magnitude harder and with 25% of my body weight added to my back 40lbs was indeed a significant load. Against all expectations, instead of my injury complaining, it seemed to be feeling better and better. After a full week on the trail I find my injury is better than it had(maybe ever) been, and 40(sometimes closer to 50)lbs became so easy to carry I could literally jog with it.

HINDSIGHT tells me this now: if you do PT for an injury, continue with it well PAST normal use/loads/stresses. You will loose some of what you gain during PT once you stop. If you stop at "normal" you will end up below normal with time. I think the same goes for "training".

Second, it may never be too late to improve function using exercise/PT and if its doing you good, you should see results fairly quickly if you are in fact needing therapy.

Third, do your training and prep work but in the end, nothing prepares you for the trail like just doing it- so just realized you will need to start out within your comfort range and then ramp up things as your body adjusts to the trail.

[Crossup]

I should add that for my injury it seems the tendency to being arthritic involves the muscles and surrounding tissue as much or more than the actual joint involved. The point being the improvement in pain/stiffness etc is from strenghtening those muscles/tissue which is directly applicable to the OP's question.

[CalebJ]

I'd like to back up what Tipi says about training with "extra" weight(you pick the numbers). Years ago I dislocated my foot(surgery with screws and pins and a special procedure) and of course I needed PT.

Being about as severe as such injuries can be I was informed that I would have 10 years of pain free function followed by the onset of arthritis which would worsen till I would want to have it fused(also an option at the time of injury)to keep the pain down to where I could walk etc(albeit with a limp).
As an active guy I figured I was doing pretty good to only be aware of my injury for a few minutes in the morning or the day after if I had really stressed it by things like running/jumping. Fast forward 18 years and its beginning to be obvious, despite the extra years, they were right that the fix would not last forever. So I decided if I was going to do some serious hiking, now was the time while I still could.

So I make a plan, start training a couple weeks ahead of departure with a loaded pack(with what I thought would be my load~30lbs). It only took a few days to realize something odd was going on...instead of the strain aggravating the injury it almost seemed like it was improving. By the time I leave I find the 30lbs is seeming a bit lighter and packed up I'm now at 40lbs, oh well the extra 10lbs shouldnt be too big of a deal given the training right?

My wife drops me off and it takes almost no time to realize that my "training" had no doubt helped BUT the trail was an order of magnitude harder and with 25% of my body weight added to my back 40lbs was indeed a significant load. Against all expectations, instead of my injury complaining, it seemed to be feeling better and better. After a full week on the trail I find my injury is better than it had(maybe ever) been, and 40(sometimes closer to 50)lbs became so easy to carry I could literally jog with it.

HINDSIGHT tells me this now: if you do PT for an injury, continue with it well PAST normal use/loads/stresses. You will loose some of what you gain during PT once you stop. If you stop at "normal" you will end up below normal with time. I think the same goes for "training".

Second, it may never be too late to improve function using exercise/PT and if its doing you good, you should see results fairly quickly if you are in fact needing therapy.

Third, do your training and prep work but in the end, nothing prepares you for the trail like just doing it- so just realized you will need to start out within your comfort range and then ramp up things as your body adjusts to the trail.

For what it's worth, I don't actually disagree with any of that. Weight training does have a purpose. I try to be in the gym every day working on deadlifts, squat, pullups, pushups, etc specifically for that reason. My reaction earlier was to the idea of throwing on a 75 pound pack with no real training plan other than getting out and walking. That much weight introduces complications on loading the pack onto your back, balance, knee and ankle concerns, etc. With a careful buildup it's probably fine. Tipi's been doing it for years. Just build to it slowly and cautiously.

[lonehiker]

I used to simply do 15 minutes of hula hoop a day and play pickleball all winter. But, now that I'm older that isn't quite enough so I now augment the pickleball with a spin class 3 days a week. To me the key is keeping the feet (and ankles) conditioned hence the pickleball as it has a lot of stop and go movement (think tennis). This regimen allows me to approach 20s right out of the gate. I also have a little weightlifting routine that I do 2-3 times a week but that isn't really for hiking purposes but rather to maintain some muscle tone in the upper body as I age.

[John M]

Some good info here. Living in Louisiana (no hills within 50 miles) makes training hikes difficult. I do a ton of stairs at work and in the past have loaded up my pack and gone to the local high school football stadium to climb bleachers. Stepping it up this year by adding running, stairmaster, and incline treadmill walks. I typically try to load my pack for training with 10lbs over what my expected pack weight on the trail will be.

[Recalc]

I typically try to load my pack for training with 10lbs over what my expected pack weight on the trail will be.

This makes sense to me. One year, I trained with 2 and 1/2 times my pack weight. Like John M's situation, there is a shortage of hills where I live, so stairs were used. Believe this made you stronger, but not as trail ready.

Too many areas of training were not addressed. Now do more miles with lower pack weights plus squats, lunges, and cardio to supplement. Found a state park with a hiking trail (baby hills) to help ankles and the shifting motion. Not the same as going on a real hike, but a little closer.