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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    That's exactly right. In my case, if Blue Cross wants to go after a third party to recover funds spent on my behalf, they are welcome to do so. But it isn't my problem - I am covered.
    You are entitled though to collect your deductible back from the party responsible for the injuries. I was stupid and didn't do this when two of my kids got injured. When my daughter broke her thumb in a softball game, the cost of her treatment exceeded her $1,500 deductible. The teams insurance reimburse me for that expense. We had a pitcher who collapse from heat and an out-of-state tournament one time and had a $800 ambulance ride to the hospital. The teams Insurance reimbursed her parents for that as well cuz that applied to her deductible and her insurance.

    But you got to think and know that you can go after being reimbursed for your expenses and most people don't. I wouldn't have thought about it untiluthe coach told me to file the form.

    When my son broke his leg playing lacrosse and the other son tore all the ankle tendons, I didn't go after getting reimbursed and that probably cost me $2,000. Many teams carry blanket insurance policies that provide secondary coverage. It's cheap like $40 a year a player through National organizations. And protects the team with a blanket policy in case somebody gets seriously hurt and they get sued.

    But the point was you are due to be reimbursed you're out of pocket medical expenses by the responsible party.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 03-15-2018 at 18:04.

  2. #42
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    In addition to recovering your out of pocket expenses, collecting against another's insurance can provide for lost income and other expenses your health insurance doesn't pay. There is no reason to be out money for another's negligence.

    This also isn't about a duty to check if someone has insurance. It's the service provider's duty to carry proper insurance not only to protect their financial well-being, but also the injured party's.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    That's exactly right. In my case, if Blue Cross wants to go after a third party to recover funds spent on my behalf, they are welcome to do so. But it isn't my problem - I am covered.
    Yes, your insurer will pay for your medical bills per the contract limitations - but they won't pay for lost wages, transportation to and from treatment or usually even from the accident, policy deductibles, dental care, etc. - and there can be a lot of etc. when you're injured in an auto accident. You could require/elect certain types of medical procedures or care that aren't covered. Policies simply don't cover everything. The at-fault party or their insurance company is responsible for that stuff in addition to subrogation claims from your health insurer - and if they don't pay you'll have to sue them. And you have a legal responsibility to inform your insurer if injuries were the fault of others - not just say "nothing" on a subrogation question.
    Last edited by 4eyedbuzzard; 03-15-2018 at 19:12.

  4. #44

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    Some states allow drivers to carry very low coverage liability insurance. Vermont is one of them. A driver gets in an accident with others seriously injured/disabled and the insurance doesn't cover anywhere near the actual medical costs. Passengers are left with long term disability and the driver declares bankruptcy.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    Yes, your insurer will pay for your medical bills per the contract limitations - but they won't pay for lost wages, transportation to and from treatment or usually even from the accident, policy deductibles, dental care, etc. - and there can be a lot of etc. when you're injured in an auto accident. You could require/elect certain types of medical procedures or care that aren't covered. Policies simply don't cover everything. The at-fault party or their insurance company is responsible for that stuff in addition to subrogation claims from your health insurer - and if they don't pay you'll have to sue them. And you have a legal responsibility to inform your insurer if injuries were the fault of others - not just say "nothing" on a subrogation question.
    That's all fine and risks I'm willing to take. And no one said anything about misleading the insurer.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    Some states allow drivers to carry very low coverage liability insurance. Vermont is one of them. A driver gets in an accident with others seriously injured/disabled and the insurance doesn't cover anywhere near the actual medical costs. Passengers are left with long term disability and the driver declares bankruptcy.
    Well, 15--30% of drivers can be uninsured in some states.
    Forget about sueing, they dont have a pot to pee in, or a window to throw it out of.

    Ive known a few people over years that dropped their own insurance on their vehicle because it was greater than 5 years old or something like this and then the car was totaled in an accident, and the at fault driver had no insurance.

    Fortunately some states have a no pay no play clause. Where if you don't have insurance you can not collect anything in the accident regardless of who's fault it is.
    I was actually in an accident where the police said I was at fault even though I wasn't. There was a witness who story was conflicting and had all kinds of errors in it that the police based his decision on. North South directions were wrong the order of the light changing was wrong the number of cars were wrong etc. My big truck totaled the little Honda accord. It hit my right front wheel and literally crush the front end of it and bounced off. The vehicles were separated by 5 feet after the car bounced away. My truck had no damage, except a little dent on my bumper where the car's front-end at gone under it. I bolted on a replacement bumper and was good. But they couldn't collect a dime because they had no insurance regardless of what the police report said. The funny part was the driver was actually staying at a house two houses down the street from me and had just moved there. With no place to stay some people from their Church were letting her stay with them. And the car was borrowed from a friend in another state. They towed the totaled car to their driveway and had it there for a while until it was disposed of.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 03-15-2018 at 20:19.

  7. #47
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    that link for shuttle drivers did not work for me either. does anyone still have the AT list? I've used it may times. If not maybe i'll find it on the waybackachine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkeeterPee View Post
    that link for shuttle drivers did not work for me either. does anyone still have the AT list? I've used it may times. If not maybe i'll find it on the waybackachine.
    link still works for me. i'm curious as to why now 2 people cant get it to work. what happens when you click on it?

    http://www.appalachiantrail.org/docs...s.pdf?sfvrsn=0

  9. #49

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    If its true that the ATC removed their list because not all of the shuttle drivers were obeying the law, then doesn't that make some of what is posted here in this thread in violation of terms of service for this website, ie discussions of illegal activity?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronk View Post
    If its true that the ATC removed their list because not all of the shuttle drivers were obeying the law, then doesn't that make some of what is posted here in this thread in violation of terms of service for this website, ie discussions of illegal activity?
    I believe ATC probably took the list down due to POTENTIAL CIVIL liability, without making any judgment as to who was in compliance or not, as it would be almost impossible for them to determine. ATC doesn't want to be a named party in a personal injury lawsuit because they recommended any particular shuttle. Nobody here is recommending breaking any laws, actually we're kind of more discussing the importance of obeying insurance laws and civil liability standards.

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    Last edited by 4eyedbuzzard; 03-16-2018 at 15:02.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    I believe ATC probably took the list down due to POTENTIAL CIVIL liability, without making any judgment as to who was in compliance or not, as it would be almost impossible for them to determine. ATC doesn't want to be a named party in a personal injury lawsuit because they recommended any particular shuttle.
    and this, i feel, is what we mean we complain about us being too litigious a society.

    i don't think anyone for a second is saying an injured party shouldn't seek compensation from those who injured them, but this roping in of parties tangentially related at best and holding them responsible is the issue. i'm no historian, but i hare a hard time buying that the puritans or whatever societies from the past were referenced earlier in this thread were in the bait of using the legal system in such a manner.

    if someone comes on this website and asks for a recommendation for a hike (lets not even touch shuttle or other transportation recommendations) and that person slips and falls on wet rock, is it now the responsibility of both the user of this website who made the recommendation and the website itself because the post that made the recommendation failed to include a warning to be careful when the rocks are wet?

    personal responsibility is ever more replaced by an ever increasing desire to place blame elsewhere.

  12. #52

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    Or, maybe the real reason is keeping a current, up to date list of shuttle providers is just too much work to maintain.
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  13. #53
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    Perhaps thy could add something like this to their list:


    Cautionary note: This listing is provided as an information service for A.T. hikers and does not constitute an endorsement by the Appalachian Trail Conservancy (ATC) of the dependability or safety of the service providers listed. ATC does not conduct background checks of shuttlers on this list, nor do we verify that they hold licenses, permits, or insurance. While some service providers may be members of the ATC, they are not representatives, employees, or agents of the ATC, and their services are not in any way affiliated with the ATC. Arrange shuttles at your own risk; you are responsible for your own safety.


    Oh wait, they did!

  14. #54
    Registered User 4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Or, maybe the real reason is keeping a current, up to date list of shuttle providers is just too much work to maintain.
    Very possible, and/or maybe a combination of things like these. Stuff like shuttles, water sources, hostels, etc are all included in the various AT guides that are published and updated each year - and ATC sells both the Companion and AWOL's on their website. As I remember there was some discussion many years ago about ATC and water sources along the trail, and how identifying them presented a potential liability. Whatever reason, it seems to be a done deal. Just an observation - the bigger an organization gets, the bigger a target they become, and the more proactive they get regarding protecting themselves.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronk View Post
    If its true that the ATC removed their list because not all of the shuttle drivers were obeying the law, then doesn't that make some of what is posted here in this thread in violation of terms of service for this website, ie discussions of illegal activity?
    No one has said that it is ok for shuttles to not obey the law. As a hiker, however, it is both impractical and limiting to demand proof of commercial insurance from everyone you get a ride from. And hitchhiking obviously precludes that level of diligence. There's risk in everything in life and getting into a stranger's car, whether an Uber, a Taxi in a big city, an informal shuttle on the AT, or sticking your thumb out on a highway are all levels of risk and people need to decide what they're comfortable with.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoczi View Post
    link still works for me. i'm curious as to why now 2 people cant get it to work. what happens when you click on it?

    http://www.appalachiantrail.org/docs...s.pdf?sfvrsn=0
    The resource cannot be found. Description: HTTP 404. The resource you are looking for (or one of its dependencies) could have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable. Please review the following URL and make sure that it is spelled correctly.

    Requested URL: /docs/default-source/default-document-library/at-shuttles.pdf

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronk View Post
    If its true that the ATC removed their list because not all of the shuttle drivers were obeying the law, then doesn't that make some of what is posted here in this thread in violation of terms of service for this website, ie discussions of illegal activity?
    the thread’s innocent until proven guilty

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkeeterPee View Post
    The resource cannot be found. Description: HTTP 404. The resource you are looking for (or one of its dependencies) could have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable. Please review the following URL and make sure that it is spelled correctly.

    Requested URL: /docs/default-source/default-document-library/at-shuttles.pdf
    odd, have tried it on a few different computers now, no issue at all. going to try attaching it to this post
    Attached Files Attached Files

  19. #59
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    I can't get to it either. It's possible your ISP is caching it.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zed View Post
    I can't get to it either. It's possible your ISP is caching it.
    maybe, but then so is where i work.

    at any rate, its attached to one of my posts now.

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