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  1. #81
    Registered User Camptastrophe's Avatar
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    Thanks, Dogwood!

  2. #82

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    I haven't chimed in on this thread until now because I'm new to the keto lifestyle.
    Started keto nearly three months ago (12-17-2017) because I was fat and not getting any better.
    Stepped on the scale last December 17th and it was reading 275 lbs.

    I was disgusted at myself because my normal adult weight has been 232 lbs.
    Had been introduced to this lifestyle when I read "The Obesity Code" by Dr Jason Fung and decided to give it a try.
    It was the easiest way of eating and losing weight for me, while still feeling satiated.
    Jumped right in to just one meal a day and almost never feel hungry.

    Weighed in this morning at 231 lbs...which historically has been my decades long ideal weight.
    That's 44 lbs lighter!
    Spent lots of money on lightweight gear when I really needed to focus on my own body weight instead.
    My backpack weighs 20 to 22 lbs, so I have lost the equivalent weight of two whole backpacks in this short time.

    Really looking forward to my next long walk coming up soon...those hills should be easier this year.
    Pretty sure I'll be able to stay eating keto style on the trail.
    I recently paddled the entire Suwannee River and stayed kept easily. Hoping it works the same for backpacking.
    Stumpknocker
    Trail is 16.4% complete.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by gracebowen View Post
    When you first go into ketosis many people feel sick.

    Also known as the 'carb flu,' the keto flu is a natural reaction (almost like a feeling of withdrawal) your body undergoes when switching from burning glucose (sugar) as energy to burning fat instead. In fact, some people say the keto flu symptoms can actually feel similar to withdrawing from an addictive substance.

    The keto diet was originally designed for severe epelitics.

    The ketogenic diet is a high-fat, adequate-protein, low-carbohydrate diet that in medicine is used primarily to treat difficult-to-control (refractory) epilepsy in children. The diet forces the body to burn fats rather than carbohydrates. Normally, the carbohydrates contained in food are converted into glucose, which is then transported around the body and is particularly important in fueling brain-function. However, if there is little carbohydrate in the diet, the liver converts fat into fatty acids and ketone bodies. The ketone bodies pass into the brain and replace glucose as an energy source. An elevated level of ketone bodies in the blood, a state known as ketosis, leads to a reduction in the frequency of epileptic seizures.[1] Almost half of children, and young people, with epilepsy who have tried some form of this diet saw the number of seizures drop by at least half, and the effect persists even after discontinuing the diet.[2] There is some evidence that adults with epilepsy may benefit from the diet, and that a less strict regimen, such as a modified Atkins diet, is similarly effective.[1] The most common adverse effect is constipation, affecting about 30% of patients—this was due to fluid restriction, which was once a feature of the diet, but this led to increased risk of kidney stones and is no longer considered beneficial.[2][3]

    I'm not keto but I've thought about it and researched it.
    This is a really good explanation except for the fact that our brains LIKE burning FAT for fuel over glucose. Otherwise the human race would have never survived when early humans had very limited access to carbs due to seasonal and geographic issues.
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    My take is that on any diet that restricts or vastly alters normal carb, protein, and fat intake is going to have effects.

    From that, I would ask is that dietary regimen sustainstable or is it just thought of as temporary, as many taken to diet fads typically define.
    Americans do NOT have "normal carb intake." The carbs most eat are literally killing them. Causing the body to overproduce insulin and store fat which causes failure of the pancreas, creates inflammation throughout the body, and then a whole host of issues besides like elevated triglycerides, blood sugars, blood pressure, etc
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  5. #85

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    for the OP: I would suggest you check out the fat adapted athlete group on facebook. lots of really good info to combat all the crap that's being spewed in this thread
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  6. #86

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    there's also a keto backpacking group on facebook
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  7. #87
    Registered User Camptastrophe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    This is a really good explanation except for the fact that our brains LIKE burning FAT for fuel over glucose.
    Not according to the scientific information that I've read.

    "Brain. Glucose is virtually the sole fuel for the human brain, except during prolonged starvation."
    In starvation, ketone bodies generated by the liver partly replace glucose as fuel for the brain.

    Source: Biochemistry. 5th edition.

    Protein, as well as lactate and glycerol, can be converted to glucose, when needed, via the process of gluconeogenesis.

    "Gluconeogenesis (GNG) is a metabolic process of making glucose, a necessary body fuel, from non-carbohydrate sources such as protein (amino acids), lactate from the muscles and the glycerol component of fatty acids."

    Source: Ketogenic Diet Resource

    Links to Gluconeogensis information via Google Scholar.

  8. #88
    Registered User Camptastrophe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpknocker View Post
    "The Obesity Code" by Dr Jason Fung
    That's, generally, the plan I follow. He has a new book coming out at the end of the month, "The Diabetes Code."

    Quote Originally Posted by stumpknocker View Post
    That's 44 lbs lighter!
    Congratulations on the weight lose!

  9. #89
    Registered User Camptastrophe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    there's also a keto backpacking group on facebook
    Thanks for the heads-up!


  10. #90
    Registered User HeartFire's Avatar
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    First, there is a facebook group for ketogenic backpackers - it's nice to be among like minded people.

    I'm in the process of experimenting with keto 'bars' for hiking. Cacao butter, protein powder, MCT oil powder and a few other ingredients - cacao nibs, nuts, berries etc. ( the cacao butter and mct oil powder should arrive today - I had to order them on line). We'll see what I can come up with!

  11. #91
    Registered User HeartFire's Avatar
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    I should have also mentioned, I'm vegetarian, so no meats or fish for me - that would make it easier though.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    Americans do NOT have "normal carb intake." The carbs most eat are literally killing them. Causing the body to overproduce insulin and store fat which causes failure of the pancreas, creates inflammation throughout the body, and then a whole host of issues besides like elevated triglycerides, blood sugars, blood pressure, etc
    ^^^ Totally agree!

  13. #93
    Registered User Nolan "Guido" Jordan's Avatar
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    Here's what I recommend. I do a restricted paleo diet with zero sugar, no artificial sweeteners, uninflammatory, carb-less, and full of fat and protein.
    I'm doing a week-long hike through the first 80 miles in Georgia, and here's what I'm bringing food wise,
    Several bags of trail mix... pecans, grain-free granola mix, freeze-dried blueberries, dried ming cherries, macadamia nuts, bits of 80% dark chocolate, and pistachios.
    Macadamia nuts are a must-have when hiking. They're so full of fat. One gram of fat is more calorie-dense than carbs.
    Rx bars, just a few Larabars, EPIC bars, Chomps Beef Sticks, special pre-workout Protein Paleo Powder in the morning, plus some chicken bone broth packets.

    I wouldn't take avocados or sardines, just because avocados are only ripe for a short period of time, and you don't know exactly when they are. Plus, they take up lots of space. Usually, sardines are packaged in tin cans which make them heavy to carry.
    Last edited by Nolan "Guido" Jordan; 03-15-2019 at 10:09.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nolan "Guido" Jordan View Post
    I wouldn't take avocados or sardines, just because avocados are only ripe for a short period of time, and you don't know exactly when they are. Plus, they take up lots of space. Usually, sardines are packaged in tin cans which make them heavy to carry.
    No idea if they are available many places or not, but one of our local stores had Chicken of the Sea sardines in a pouch like you often see tuna packed in. May have just been a one time thing, though as they do get odd items at times, but if shopping it might be an item to check for in different spots to see if they are more widespread.

  15. #95

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    Man there's a lot of uninformed bs on this thread by people with no experience with a keto diet. Yet there are a refreshing few who get it, many thanks (Kudos, or Ketos) to them!

    Keto is the default human energy system, not a dietary fad. This is how we survived the Pleistocene ice ages and thousands of famines worldwide for most of our history. Our bodies are a storage battery meant to carry fat for fuel and then burn it later. We can also run on glucose (carbs), although it is inefficient because our bloodstream can hold only a few teaspoons of glycogen at a time. So running on carbs becomes a constant struggle with feeding and being hungry, as insulin jacks and plummets, jacks and plummets. Not good, and certainly not ancestral. And finally your pancreas burns out from all the unnatural sugar jolts that it never developed to handle... since sugar was scarce and seasonal for most of human history.

    A lot of physiology seems to correct and improve on a keto diet. HDL rises, trigs plummet, glucose stabilizes, fat mass decreases, and ketones improve cognitive function. Diabetes reverses (60% according to Virta Health's clinical studies). Arthritis and other chronic conditions are often relieved as inflammation decreases. Sports performance can increase. This is all really spectacular stuff!

    One of the misconceptions is that you have to eat a high fat diet. No, ketones are a response to low carbs, not high fat. If you want to burn body fat, keep dietary fat low. And high protein intake won't throw you out of ketosis, that's a false rumor.

    I've hiked and run endurance events on keto for over two years and I love it. You don't get hungry. Energy supply is very stable. You no longer think about food all the time, and you don't really need to carry much food. I think the smartest people to follow in the ketosphere are Mark Sisson and Ted Naiman. But avoid the uninformed masses and the general press garbage, please.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    Americans do NOT have "normal carb intake." The carbs most eat are literally killing them. Causing the body to overproduce insulin and store fat which causes failure of the pancreas, creates inflammation throughout the body, and then a whole host of issues besides like elevated triglycerides, blood sugars, blood pressure, etc
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    ^^^ Totally agree!

    I hastily made this comment.


    The part I agree is, "Americans do NOT have "normal carb intake. The carbs most eat are literally killing them." I agree because in the U.S. we're oversold on refined highly processed packaged foods and refined highly processed carbs, darlings of modern food "science" technology and national agricultural practices. There are two selling point buzz words to be aware - science and technology. Keto and ancestral/Paleo dietary approaches push away from consuming refined carbs and refined highly processed packaged food like substances which has positive benefits in themselves for those accustomed to the SAD. Take that stuff out, or at least limit it, in the SAD and one is very likely to experience health benefits! It's highly significant to note the potential health positives of that single dietary change of habit! Keto and Paleo push towards complex carbs from things like fresh vegetables in their approach to carb consumption. It's not carbs, all carbs, that are equally the culprit in these diets!

    The other parts are not so much I totally agree or disagree. It's more complicated than zeroing in on 'carbs' being the problem in those listed cause and effect relationships. This is the reductionist nutritional approach, a marketing darling of the processed food and dietary fad industries to name two of the big players. The reductionist approach and Nutritionism are two of the leading causes of nutritional confusion and nutritional debate - to know what to eat. To borrow from Michael Pollan, we didn't need celebrity food all star experts - 'food science high priests and priestesses' - to tell us what to eat in the past and in some ways we were healthier without them and the reductionist nutritional approach, common modern food "science" technological practices, industrialized agriculture, and Nutritionism! More sound wider view nutritional science is more complex than myopically focusing on individual food compounds like demonizing carbs. How about thinking holistically when it comes to diet, nutrition, and health care, a greater whole, a greater number of interconnected influences? Zeroing in on demonizing and promoting individual nutrients is a major food and fad diet marketing tactic. i.e.' bananas - potassium, coffee - caffeine, berries - antioxidants(ohh watch out for that one - antioxidants), meat - protein(OMG!), "nutritional" bars - high in protein, cow's milk - calcium, does a body good?), yogurt - probiotics, gluten free, low fat, low sugar, low carbs, high in protein - the protein protein mantra, no trans fats, Organic, on and on. Ever been on a merry-go-round too long becoming disoriented? No wonder why we are nutritionally rattled.

    The human body can over produce insulin for other reasons related to sedentary lifestyles, obesity, and high blood pressure, as some examples. Ignoring these other correlated causes while demonizing carbs as the enemy in selling low carb dietary approaches is the current rage. Dont think the trillion dollar diet, "nutritional", "health", various agricultural sectors, food politics, etc don't influence what's popular. It's not all pure science. Whatever pure might mean? Sedentary lifestyles, obesity and high blood pressure aren't always so carb consumption related either! Since Diabetes Type II is a major cause of U.S. fatalities and related symptoms many look for the smoking gun and it can lead to recommending low carb diets while ignoring the role fats can play. Fats can play a major role in pancreas and over insulin production disorders.

    Inflammation can be caused by a great many things - bacteria, pathogens, non dietary toxins, pre-existing diseases, etc. To attribute carb intake as the cause of inflammatory responses is a ridiculously narrowed view. It certainly CAN BE involved in pro inflammation responses however!

    *How about this approach to reducing dietary associated inflammation - reduce sugar intake(major source of inflammation in the SAD), trans fats(hydrogenated crap!), dairy/dairy derived compunds(can be a major cause of inflammation in the SAD), processed meat and meat cooked at high temperatures, artificial sweeteners like aspartame, sodium, MSG, casein(dairy, non human sourced), gluten, excessive alcohol consumption(don't be so utterly consumption oriented?), and REFINED carbohydrates? *THE SOURCE of much of this in the SAD is HIGHLY REFINED HIGHLY PROCESSED PACKAGED food like substances, products of mainstream American food "science" and American modern industrialized food "science" technologies. Avoidance of these refined highly processed substances is one of the greatest potential positives for Americans no matter their labeled diet. Yet, go into any U.S. grocery store and most of the products being sold are highly processed highly refined with long shelf lives and extensive ingredient lists packaged "comfort" foods. Grocery stores dedicate most of their shelf space oriented to selling these products and not because it's purely consumer driven uninfluenced by seller motivations and shaping market demand. These products are highly profitable for the food industry. Entertain trail diet thread discussions and what tends to prevail? Is it not consumption of highly processed refined packaged often junk food like products?


    If there's one word that so influences nutrition, diets, agriculture, health 'care' products, fitness machine/products, pharmaceutical and supplement industry, sports wear industry... at the core of billions in revenue is the buzz word - fat. We've been conditioned to have that word grab our attention. Tread lightly around that word and step back my friends. Sooo much 'stuff' has been sold centered around that word. The Keto Diet is but one current example of 'stuff' being sold centered around fat. Tread lightly oh Dorothy, of the man behind the curtain pulling the levers in control of the commotion.

    Might also tread lightly around PBS healthcare infommercial claims. They are ADVERTISEMENTS - fiduciary motivations included in the caring celebrity Doctor's presentations of the latest scientific research!

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    One of the misconceptions is that you have to eat a high fat diet. No, ketones are a response to low carbs, not high fat. If you want to burn body fat, keep dietary fat low. And high protein intake won't throw you out of ketosis, that's a false rumor.
    I'm non combatively asking or dietary debating RockDoc. So if your diet is low carb and low fat caloric your getting a mega dose whopping of cals from protein sources? Kinda atkins keto paleo? LOL How is that high of a protein caloric diet being accomplished you advise? Can a diet high in protein be linked to causes? Is that not applying a nutrient demonizing approach?

  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    I hastily made this comment.

    The part I agree is, "Americans do NOT have "normal carb intake. The carbs most eat are literally killing them." I agree because in the U.S. we're oversold on refined highly processed packaged foods and refined highly processed carbs, darlings of modern food "science" technology and national agricultural practices. There are two selling point buzz words to be aware - science and technology. Keto and ancestral/Paleo dietary approaches push away from consuming refined carbs and refined highly processed packaged food like substances which has positive benefits in themselves for those accustomed to the SAD. Take that stuff out, or at least limit it, in the SAD and one is very likely to experience health benefits! It's highly significant to note the potential health positives of that single dietary change of habit! Keto and Paleo push towards complex carbs from things like fresh vegetables in their approach to carb consumption. It's not carbs, all carbs, that are equally the culprit in these diets!

    The other parts are not so much I totally agree or disagree. It's more complicated than zeroing in on 'carbs' being the problem in those listed cause and effect relationships.
    Yes, vegetables and fruits and berries all provide "good carbs." We eat these. We eat almost no "processed" foods. We buy nearly 100% single ingredient foods. We don't consume chemical additives. We don't put crap on our skin like moisturizers and makeup etc.
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  19. #99
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    Not that you need anyone's nod but you've shared great steps you've taken IMHO. You're willing to raise your consciousness level. Displaying a willingness to see things through is a big part of taking back control of one's individual diet and health rather than complacently letting others with perhaps different or self serving agendas do it. You bet, it's your life.

    R U still doing monk fruit, 100% MF? I think you once said you do 100% MF? I've only tried it once or twice but it may have contained other ingredients.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    Yes, vegetables and fruits and berries all provide "good carbs." We eat these. We eat almost no "processed" foods. We buy nearly 100% single ingredient foods. We don't consume chemical additives. We don't put crap on our skin like moisturizers and makeup etc.
    I'm in a trivia kinda mood. Are tomatoes fruits or vegetables? Are eggplants and peppers fruits? Are zucchini fruits or vegetables. How about cucumbers? Do they fit into keto or paleo low carb diets? What common nutrient is extremely high in all of them?

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