Waterproof hiking shoes...

[Nanatuk]

How many days can you go with the Sealskins before needing a good wash? I've never worn a WP sock.

I wear them during the winter and spring for my 7 mile morning hike. I usually wear them all week before washing. My feet stay dry and warm. I've never worn them above about 40 degrees so not sure how comfortable they would be in spring time rains. I usually just were merinos once spring hits. I've kind of gotten used to walking in wet socks due to the heavy dew in the mornings around here. Initial cold shock doesn't last long and my feet quickly heat up the wet socks. I think If I was walking all day, I'd probably change socks at lunch so the wet pair had a chance to dry during the heat of the day.

I'm hiking in Altra Lone Peaks which are not waterproof in any way. They dry pretty quickly.

[Dogwood]

LPs come in non WP and WP versions as well as low and mid cuts (a low mid cut). Which ones are you referring?

Also, I have older crew height Sealskinz. Don't know the yr or 100% the wt. I guess they are mid wt if I had to guess
Side by side, all things being the same HANZ WP socks are preferred.

What version Sealskinz are you referring? I've been wanting to demo the current Sealskinz Walking Thin Ankle socks for warmer weather which I suspect may get my nod over the HANZ for these conditions.

[HooKooDooKu]

Boots with a waterproof layer such as Goretex will only dry when it's dryer outside the boot than inside the boot.

For those that don't understand Goretex (and similar materials), it is a material that is full of tiny holes, so small that water droplets can not pass thru it. But the holes are big enough to allow water vapor to pass thru. But for water vapor to move thru the Goretex, it requires the vapor pressure inside the material to be higher than the vapor pressure outside the material. That's sort of a fancy way of saying it has to be drier outside the material than inside the material.

So when you're wearing Goretex boots and it's raining outside and water gets inside your boot, water vapor isn't going to push thru the Goretex and allow your feet to dry.

And when it comes to hiking in the rain, it doesn't require rain running down your leg into your boot for your feet to get wet. Feet sweat, and in dry conditions, that sweat will evaporate in your boot and push thru the Goretex layer. But if the outside of your boot is staying wet because rain is falling on it, that sweat will build up inside your boot and get your feet wet.

[Dogwood]

I've never heard it explained exactly that way. You must work for the dreaded Gortex Corp. That was good.

[egilbe]

Goretex fails when it gets dirty, too. I can imagine splashing through mud puddles all day is going to help keep a goretex lining in boots or shoes clean.

[devoidapop]

Goretex fails when it gets dirty, too. I can imagine splashing through mud puddles all day is going to help keep a goretex lining in boots or shoes clean.

...and red clay, forget about it

[nsherry61]

Goretex fails when it gets dirty, too. I can imagine splashing through mud puddles all day is going to help keep a goretex lining in boots or shoes clean.

As HooKooDooKu points out, when the outside of the membrane is wet from grass, ground water, or rain, they're breathability no better than tight fitting rubber boots (real rubber boots breath better cuz they're loose).

As egilbe points out, the membranes can fail when they get dirty, so feet are a questionable place to use GTX.

Now, I've been using GTX boots and shoes intermittently since they first became available (sometime in the 80's if I recall?). I've had conversations with more than one shoe company sales rep that swears their GTX waterproof footwear is waterproof for life and they will stand behind their product. And, I've read on this forum posts by people that swear their GTX footwear lasts well and is reliable.
I'm here to say I have NEVER had a pair of GTX shoes or boots stay truly waterproof, (i.e. sufficently water tight to keep my feet dry while I a standing in a puddle, walking through wet grass or slushy snow) for more than about 1/2 of a season. I might have had one pair once that lasted a whole hiking season, but, I don't think so.

I have owned GXT boots or shoes Vasque (3 pair), Merrell (2 pair?), Obos (2 pair), and I honestly don't remember what other ones. At some point, I get tired of returning leaking boots or shoes to the supplier and give up.

At this point in my life, I still own a couple pair of GTX hiking shoes, and I use them when I'm day hiking or walking in slushy snow or muddy trails because they keep my feet drier than my non-GTX footwear and I have boot driers to place them on when I get home.

My big problem is that given my 100% failure rate on every pair of GTX footwear I've ever used from multiple reputable manufacturers over several decades. HOW THE HECK IS ANYONE WITH ANY LEGITIMACY CLAIMING THEIR GTX SHOES/BOOTS WATERPROOFING WORKS AND LAST RELIABLY OVER TIME?? . . . by the way, I have the same question and problem with Gortex or other WPB clothing, it just lasts more like two or three years before complete failure instead of just one season.

[sarac]

For shorter hikes, I've used Vibrams

[MuddyWaters]

Your feet sweat......a lot.
Just like any other waterproof, and supposedly breatheable, clothing,
Nothing is ever breatheable enough to keep up with exertion in warm weather.

Socks are damp with sweat from hiking in even breatheable trail runners if you are sweating. Worse for sure....in waterproof footwear.

If the temp isnt below 35-40F, not needed, imo. And probably detrimental.
As the temperature declines it becomes much more useful.

[poolskaterx]

I have had very good success with My Lasportiva Synthesis mids. They claim to have an air push system that vents while letting the gortex keep water out. I am no scientist or engineer but I have had SO many "waterproof" boots that have failed that I did not have much faith in these; I am pleasantly surprised after 2 years of use. I've worn em on 110 degree days, I've have soaked them by stepping in water too deep and they dried quickly, wore them in snow supplemented with a 1 thin pair and one very thick pair of wool socks to keep my feet warm (not much insulation in these boots and they really do breath.. you can feel it in your steps). I will buy a second pair when these wear out; oh, the traction is amazing!

For the record, this is the only pair of goretex boots that have worked as I thought they should out of probably over 10 different boots I have owned over the past 20 years (hi-tec (2), asolo(4), northface(3), merell(2),vasque(1),brooks(1), Raichle, etc...

[Dogwood]

My big problem is that given my 100% failure rate on every pair of GTX footwear I've ever used from multiple reputable manufacturers over several decades. HOW THE HECK IS ANYONE WITH ANY LEGITIMACY CLAIMING THEIR GTX SHOES/BOOTS WATERPROOFING WORKS AND LAST RELIABLY OVER TIME?? . . . by the way, I have the same question and problem with Gortex or other WPB clothing, it just lasts more like two or three years before complete failure instead of just one season.

Feel better since you got that rant off?

I don't have that problem because all those pieces never last me over the long term. Lol

The WPing lasts; it's everything else that doesn't yet affects the WPness.

Is Al Gore related to the Gore of GorTex fame? That might explain some things.

[Leo L.]

GoreTex and similar stuff works only, if there is a reasonable temperatuue drop between outside and inside (in addition to what HooKooDooKu said above). So in hot humid environment the whole GoreTex idea will not work at all.
The boots will still be boots you can walk with, its just off from the advertised quality. Maybe most hikers dont even notice, beacuse having damp or wet feet is an all too common nuisance and there are bigger issues you have to care about on a daily Basis.

My personal reasons I stay away from GoreTex are,
- They are expensive
- The GoreTex features will hold for quite limited time only
- They tend to develope a terrible stink after some time, much worse that the exact same model without GoreTex would

I'm not doing the extensive LD type of hikes you're doing (unfortunately), but I ended up using leather or leather/canvas boots of various design and weight, and use plastic square socks to keep my feet dry if need arises.

[Dogwood]

Plastic square socks. You must be from Austria. Seriously, explain these socks. I've never heard of them unless you're refering to breat bags coined bag rex by some.

[Shrewd]

This thread has been a better read than the standard water proof or not type threads, which I appreciate. Well done gents.

Off the bat I’ll say there’s really no such thing as water proof. Merely highly water resistant. That said, I love a good pair of GTX or the like boots for cold weather day hikes and such. If you’re a hunter, absolutely. Maybe going on an overnight or weekend trip, right on.

In the context of a thru on the AT....not so much.
In the beginning one kid I hiked with had the LP Neoshells and I remember being envious, as it was realllllky cold when we started and snowing and some decent rain and mud.

After that first pair of shoes wore out, though, it wasn’t that cold anymore and I saw no real reason to stick with waterproofing. On the AT you’re just not going to stay dry for long, regardless of how you dress.

Last year it rained for 4 weeks straight. Eventually you just deal with it and keep going; I even stopped using my second pair of socks because they’d just wet out in a few minutes anyway - I’d save them for a morning I knew I was going into town for a morale boost.

Someone mentioned the stench issue; that’s a good point in general but on a thru kind of irrelevant because you’ll already smell awful.

It’s hard to describe the attitude towards it if you haven’t done it yourself, but you really do stop caring. I didn’t even avoid mud puddles by the time I was in Vermont. You just come to accept that there’s no avoiding it in the long run so why bother? I also stopped wearing gaiters because I came to the conclusion that it was just another layer of wet, muddy crap I had to put back on in the morning.

(Most nights I typically cleaned off my legs and changed into dry camp socks, I should point out)


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[Leo L.]

Plastic square socks. You must be from Austria. Seriously, explain these socks. I've never heard of them unless you're refering to breat bags coined bag rex by some.

Will make a photo series and post it here sometimes.

- Take a reasonable sturdy plastic sheet (what you call thrash compressor bag might work perfectly)
- cut out two squares of 1'x1', place them in front of you on the floor "diagonally"
- place one foot on one of the squares, central, toes pointing onto the front corner of the square
- fold up the front flap over your foot
- fold upt the left and right flap over your foot
- while holding the three folded flaps, gently slip the foot into the shoe (wiggle a bit to slip in without tearing the square)
- help the rear flap to fold up while slipping in
- move and wiggle a bit until you feel comfortable
Lace up the shoe, done!

You may carry multiple square socks in case one tears.
If done right, they will hold up a long time.

Square socks (made of any cloth rightly available) come a long way from the WWII and earlier, when people had sturdy shoes/boots but lacked of knitted socks.
Plastic square socks work the same as bread bags, but look more nice and avoid folds on places you don't like to have them in the long run (read: you'll have a perfectly smooth sole are).
And using square socks makes me feel superior over the myriads of day tourists pouring out from the cablecar over the glacier in our mountains, which all have (ziploc)bags in their shoes.

[Dogwood]

Leo, they could be called apple tart or samosa socks.

[JJ505]

Didn't really want them but they were the only ones available. (I have hard to fit feet.) But I got Goretex New Balance shoes. Were handy day hiking in the snow. They stayed dry and my feet were dry. I think the problem is more thru hiking/long sections because they do take longer to dry.

[rgarling]

Will make a photo series and post it here sometimes.
...Square socks (made of any cloth rightly available) come a long way from the WWII and earlier, when people had sturdy shoes/boots but lacked of knitted socks.
...

Leo -- thanks for sharing this great idea. With the right material, it could work as a sock liner, insulator, water-resistant layer. I'll definitely be trying this.

[Dogwood]

...Just like any other waterproof, and supposedly breatheable, clothing,
Nothing is ever breatheable enough to keep up with exertion in warm weather...

I'm going to keep saying this. Ventilation is far more important to thermoregulation than breathability. People have to stop putting all the thermoregulation complaints on the gear and breathability and start looking at themselves, their attention to ventilation and overall(inattention?) to thermoregulation.


And, if you want to bitch about marketing of breathability do a side by side everything else being equal comparison wearing non permeable non breathable rain pants and rain jacket(as found at HD or Lowes, work rain wear) or while wearing a sauna suit such as wrestlers or fat farms/(spas) use to get wt down with wearing a backpacking/hiking breathable WP rain pants and rain jacket with 10K+ Hydrostatic Head(HH), 10K+ Moisture Vapor Transfer Rate(MVTR). There's a freakin difference despite overused breathability marketing terms!

[Berserker]

In my personal experience I have found waterproof shoes and boots to just flat out not work for me due to getting wet from the inside out. Unless the temperature is very low (below freezing) I'm gonna be sweating and getting them wet. So it doesn't matter if the weather is nice and it stays dry, those suckers are gonna get wet anyway. Then if it rains the water eventually works it's way into the boots unless I'm wearing rain pants, which I can't do unless it's pretty cold.

Trail runners with good mesh are the way to go in my opinion. If they get wet, they'll dry out quick. If in multiple days of rain, your feet will be wet regardless of your footwear, and the trail runners will dry out quickly once it stops raining while the waterproof footwear will take a lot longer.