Unnecessary, pointless luxury item. (IMO, "for me" etc)Originally Posted by Redbird2
If you need more warmth, put on more clothes. One of the advantages of a quilt vs a bag.
The Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter ~ Cam "Swami" Honan of OZ
My Rab Traveller rocks but this one seems similar and a bit less spendy:
http://www.silkliners.com/navy-blue-...ing-bag-liner/
What if you re wearing all your clothes already?
What if you can wear a liner as a layer as a toga when hiking or in camp?
A liner becomes less of a "luxury" and more of an integrated component multi use piece.
Silk is luxurious though. I'm worth it.
Bags dont have to be ridgidly dimensionaly static. ie; Montbell's Super Stretch or Spiral cut on the bias bags.
If one intends on wearing many or bulky layers in their bags as can be customary for climbers or mountaineers then get a larger girth bag. Easy enough with the Valandre bags which are how they are sometimes designed. That's what I did when I had Valandres. Like a roomier feel than buy one with that in mind. Some complain about the lack of roomieness in a conventional mummy bag when they haven't given enough consideration to the cut, dimensions, how they sleep, and their intended set ups, and applications. It's so common to blame issues on gear when the issues are more related to the user's abilities and lack of considerations.
If anything, for me as a side to side rotisserie sleeper, I feel more confined on the same size NeoAir when using any of my three quilts having to stay attached to the Neo Air compared to any of my conventional sleeping bags because the pad is a critical part of the insulation and warmth.
I'm having a discussion not coming at you Cmoulder in a rigid one sided approach.
Bags dont have to be ridgidly dimensionaly static. ie; Montbell's Super Stretch or Spiral cut on the bias bags.
If one intends on wearing many or bulky layers in their bags as can be customary for climbers or mountaineers then get a larger girth bag. Easy enough with the Valandre bags which are how they are sometimes designed. That's what I did when I had Valandres. Like a roomier feel than buy one with that in mind. Some complain about the lack of roomieness in a conventional mummy bag when they haven't given enough consideration to the cut, dimensions, how they sleep, and their intended set ups, and applications. It's so common to blame issues on gear when the issues are more related to the user's abilities and lack of considerations.
If anything, for me as a side to side rotisserie sleeper, I feel more confined on the same size NeoAir when using any of my three quilts having to stay attached to the Neo Air compared to any of my conventional sleeping bags because the pad is a critical part of the insulation and warmth.
I'm having a discussion not coming at you Cmoulder in a rigid one sided approach.
Sorry for the double post.
Yo Dog no sweat!I know that you are of the UL persuasion and quite analytical. If you've worked it into your gear list I know that it was well considered.
However, IMO if a silk liner is the factor that determines whether one is comfortable or cold I'd say one didn't carry adequate (or proper) clothing for the conditions. Not easy picking just the right pieces that will keep you warm in challenging conditions but not weigh you down.
But I've taken to hanging the last few months and cannot imagine wrestling with a liner inside a top quilt and inside a hammock.
The Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter ~ Cam "Swami" Honan of OZ
...Its winter, I had to think about that one, even pulled it out. It’s very soft, smooth, and light material, Mrs Hatchet says it feels like the inside of a quality soft down jacket.
It breathes “average”, and I might recall it sticking a little after a hot sweaty hike in hot humid weather, but its so light and roomy it’s easy to adjust / vent when I’m using only it for cover on hotter nights. I have a Cocoon Silk Liner, it sticks a lot more and gets twisted. The Argon 67 doesn’t seem to have that problem as much, it slides much better.
Here’s a better description, you can call Dutch too, he can give you more info / opinions.
https://dutchwaregear.com/product/argon-67/
All I can say is it has worked well for me either hanging in my hammock or going to ground.
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Good pt!Yo Dog no sweat!
However, IMO if a silk liner is the factor that determines whether one is comfortable or cold I'd say one didn't carry adequate (or proper) clothing for the conditions. Not easy picking just the right pieces that will keep you warm in challenging conditions but not weigh you down.
But I've taken to hanging the last few months and cannot imagine wrestling with a liner inside a top quilt and inside a hammock.
You hit me with the one thing I left out that I intended to include. I too do not use a liner in a hammock with either a quilt or bag with my tossing sleep style. It was a tanglefest for me. Others do it effectively though. Maybe they are back sleepers, using bridge hammocks, or doing something I'm ignorant of.
TU for understanding where I was coming from.
Well, Hatchet you solved the biggest test. The wife approves.
Appreciated your take. I rudimentarly considered Dutch's liner but didn't get very far. I wanted more reviews based on others personally experiencing it.
Care to explain further how you dont get tangled up and I do when using a liner in a hammock with a bag or quilt? Am I doing something wrong?
The reason you want a liner is so you don't have to buy two sleeping bags and mail them back and forth. One 30-degree bag plus the right liner weighs less than a 20 degree bag and will get you all the way from March on Springer to July at Harpers Ferry to September on Katadyn. The bonus is not having to sleep in the same bed for six months without washing your sheets. Montbell UL Spiral Down Hugger #3 plus Sea to Summit Reactor liner. Total weight: 30.6 oz.
Hmm, for me I’d say it’s a combination of things. I try to use dedicated UL synthetic socks/shorts/shirt for sleeping. These are always clean and dry (relatively). Feet/hips/shoulders are major touch points so wearing synthetic fabric on these, combined with the extreme smoothness of the Argon 67, just seems to work. That liner is also cut for a quilt, sewn foot box (very large) but halfway up it splits which makes it easier to get in/out of and adjust. I prob do adjust it during the night, but not nearly as much as my silk one where it catches and gets twisted up when damp.
I’ve started my seasonal training hikes, have an overnight in a few weeks, I’ll pay attention and report back, but am pretty sure the combination is why it doesn’t really stick/twist.
Good luck!
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Available on Ebay for about $14 including shipping.
I hate liners but this is an interesting set up as can also use as a make shift bivy as has a DWR..I’ve spent way too much money with Dutch and HG in last few months!
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I recently bought another UQ (40deg EE Revolt) for when the weather warms up. In addition to the other stuff (tarps, UQ) from HG, and straps, hammock and hardware from DH and DW. I'm seriously all set for gear, and if I get the urge to buy anything else I'm going to bang my head on the wall screaming NO!
The Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter ~ Cam "Swami" Honan of OZ
I thought about a sleeping bag liner but didn't want the hassle and additional bulk. I just throw a couple iron oxide hand warmers into my bag at night when it's cold. It raises the temperature in the bag by 10 degrees or more. This works for me.
..I’ve spent way too much money with Dutch and HG in last few months!
Yeah, that was me last year, but both are solid small businesses who make excellent gear. This is my hobby so I figure it’s worth it.
Both have great customer support too. I bought one of the first Chameleon hammocks, and as happens with early adopters, there was a small defect in the zipper. Early on their vendor had trouble meeting quality standards and I had separation at the tabs. I emailed Dutch, sent a pic, and they sent me a new hammock body with the upgraded zipper no charge. So far zero issues with their liner or other gear. HG is awesome too, my first trip out with their CF hammock tarp a tree 25’ away came down and tore a 7” hole in my brand new tarp( (Could have been a LOT worse) I asked their advice on repairing it, they said send it in, I did and they fixed it for no charge. I’m a big fan of both.
But I digress, this is a liner thread after all.
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Hi Redbird. I use a Cocoon silk/cotton liner now. Used to use all silk but if it tears when you are sleeping, it's ruined. Silk/cotton takes more abuse. Choose a liner that you slip into from the head, not one with a zipper. The liner does provide additional warmth but much more importantly it protects your sleeping bag from hiker grime. If you use a liner religiously and air out your bag, you won't have to wash it ever. Crazy, but pretty true. Liners add life to bags. When it is hot, you can use it by itself or with your sleeping bag open as a quilt over you. I don't see it as a luxury item, but as a piece of necessary gear. It can be a little confining, but so are mummy bags.
Good luck and have a great hike.
Frisbee
AT 3000+ miler
Hatchet, the civilility and clarity in your commmunication is appreciated. You offering future feed back based on personal experiences is also greatly appreciated.
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