Loiking for advice about The Whites

[Catch-Up]

My husband and I are preparing for the Whites in June. OMG! we sre looking for any good advice from those of you who have experienced this section. We have sectioned all the way from GA and typically do around 250 to 300 miles at a time - two more trips and we will be done! But the Whites are scaring me.

[colorado_rob]

Well, quite simply the White's are a spectacular section, probably our favorite 100-ish miles of the trail, BUT of course those are a tough 100 miles... Our 18 MPD average got slowed down to 11-12 MPD, and some of those were very long days. Our pace was 1 mile per hour in places and we were happy to do that! All I can say is that in places, roots make great hand holds! Don't let the Whites "scare you", just take your time and enjoy.

We (my wife and I) tempered the difficulties of the trail and stayed in Huts, full paying customers, for 3 nights out of the 7, some will tell you they are always booked, and that might be true in June (we started through the Whites on Labor Day weekend and we practically owned some of the huts that week after).

[peakbagger]

Depends on the winter but June is still a transition season in the whites. June 1st or June 30th makes a big difference. There still could be a few snowfields on the ridge and skiers are still possibly skiing down in Tuckermans Ravine, but they are attractions not obstacles. Bugs are still an issue, the standard rule of thumb is black flies move in for Mothers Day and move out by Fathers Day. The huts are not always full mid week in June but weekends may be full especially the weekend closest June 21st as its very popular weekend to go on or near the longest day of the year. Note that many folks do the very long dayhike from Crawford Notch to Mt Madison and back down to the road in Randolph around June 21st (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Traverse) . I have done it a couple of times but definitely not something someone new to the local conditions would want to consider.

If you have the bucks, the AMC hut to hut is the way to go through much of the whites (note the stretch from Glencliff NH to Lonesome lake is not a normal dayhike and requires camping or arrange to break it into two slackpacks (Glencliff to Kinsman Notch and then Kinsman Notch to Lonesome Lake Hut. Using the huts allows you a lot of extra time to do some side hikes and downtime as the huts are placed about a 6 to 7 hour hikes for most folks unless the weather is bad. They serve plenty of food for supper and breakfast, plus supply wood blankets so you are carrying a light pack Thus if you leave after their generous breakfast you will be at the next hut by 2 to 3 PM unless the weather is nasty. The major caveat with the huts are they arent hotels, they have large shared bunkrooms and facilities. No hot water or showers. They cram in as many people as they can and when full finding a quiet space after supper is close to impossible inside the hut. If you have issues with sleeping in crowded facilities they may not be for you. Definitely bring earplugs and sleep mask as there is constant hum all night with folks going back and forth to the bathroom. They do offer packaged "guided" trips that usually are a slight discount than one night rates. Do go on the AMC website and book reservations ASAP.

A real smart option is try to do a slack pack your first day just to get your skills up than switch over to backpacking. There are slackpacking options on both ends but most involve dropping off the ridgeline 2 to 3 thousand feet and an extra 4 miles although it varies. The Rattle River Hostel in Shelburne NH is at the north end of the WMNF https://rattleriverhostel.com/shuttles. The Notch Hostel in Woodstock is probably the best option for the south end. http://notchhostel.com/. The Glencliff Hostel is the traditional thru hiker place to stay before "hitting the whites" but unless you are on the trail is long ride from public transportation . The last resource is this Shuttle Service that is based out of Berlin/Gorham area http://www.trailangelshikerservices.com/shuttle.html. If you are driving up you need a shuttle between Shelburne and Glencliff (or possibly Woodstock. It eats up half a day and its not cheap whoever provides it. AMC has a shuttle system that goes part of the way but it does not go to Glencliff.

As for terrain, there really isnt anything similar in the south. The trails are old and used heavily and tend to be routed straight up and down slopes. There are very few switchbacks. The trail bed once you leave the hardwoods in the valley is mostly rocks as a combination of erosion and trail hardening effort mean the trail is paved with stones. Unlike PA, the stones in the whites tend to stay in place when you step on them. In some areas the trail effectively is a rough stone staircase that goes up for 1000 feet continuous. There are also stretches where you are climbing up over boulders, using your hands. Many folks from outside the area just cant seem to figure out that they need to pace themselves and get into stop and go hiking. The trikc is to set a slow steady pace and if you start to get winded, slow down but avoid stopping. Sure trail runners may be flying by but hike your own pace. If you want comparisons think the steep section of Dragons Tooth in VA or the climb up out of LeHigh Gap in PA and maybe the drop into Duncannon. Once you break out near or above treeline you are rock hopping most of the time. It takes awhile to get a good pace going and most folks have to slow right down. Poles are usually quite helpful, just dont use the straps as if you slip the injury caused by being attached to a pole at the wrist (dislocated shoulder broken wrist) is far worse the landing when you just let go of the poles. The other thing that is roll of the dice is the weather. Most of the hiking is on ridgeline and you are the highest object on it. The nearest cover may be a mile or two away. The weather in early june tends to be less stable than later in the month but its roll of the dice. The AMC posts detailed forecasts at the huts every day. They cant prevent you from trying to make the next hut in extreme weather but they may strongly discourage you. Unless you get lucky they rarely can make a space for you the next night so your only option is drop off the ridge and take the shuttle to skip a section of the ridge to get back on your reservations.

[nsherry61]

Lots of good advice and insights above.

The big adjustment for me in the Whites was just realizing and accepting what ridiculously short mileage days I was capable of over the steep and rocky and rooty terrain. 1 to 1.5 mph is probably really a pretty good estimate for someone that otherwise would be doing 2.5 to 3 mph. And, if you are section hiking, so your body isn't already "trail fit", those foot, knee, and hip issues (or whatever overuse issues you have have had in the past) have an increased likelihood of cropping up and shortening your days even further.

As Colorado_Rob suggested above, just plan shorter days and enjoy and beauty. The terrain is only an issue if you are fighting it and trying to accomplish more and faster each day than works well for you. Plan slow and easy, stop to rest a few seconds every couple minutes on the steeper climbs, and embrace the "rugged beauty".

[Slo-go'en]

If we continue having the kind of weather we've had lately, there isn't going to be any snow left in June. Might not be any left by the end of March. It's currently 38 degrees and raining. It should be 10 degrees and snowing!

June tends to be a quiet month in NH. Using the AMC huts would make the hike much easier, especially the logistics. Camping is highly regulated in the Whites and working around the huts is a pain. If you join the club and do the package deal the cost isn't totally insane, just a little insane.

[Berserker]

I'm gonna say what most will end up saying, and that is make sure you back your mileage off significantly. I'd recommend backing off up to 50% per day. I typically do 12 - 15 mile days, and rolled into the Whites backing it off a bit (10 - 12 mpd) thinking I had done enough. 4 Days into the trip I had to totally restructure the trip because it was too much. the Whites are more rock scrambling than trail walking, so picture climbing up and down rocks and that's the majority of what you'll be doing. It's very strenuous.

Also, if you don't mind spending the money do the hut-to-hut thing as Peakbagger detailed above and enjoy yourself. I carried a full pack my first time up there and did a mix of camp spots and huts. Then the next time up there (to finish what I couldn't do the first time) I did the hut-to-hut thing, and it was a lot more enjoyable carrying a day pack through that terrain.

[hikernutcasey]

Here is my experience...https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthr...t=#post1998395

We started in Franconia Notch so you would need to add in Moosilauke and Kinsman if you are doing them all. We chose to not stay in the huts and utilize the tent sites. As others have said, you have to temper your mileage expectations pretty dramatically but don't sweat it. Just be in decent shape when you go and you will be fine.

[nsherry61]

Wow, a bunch of hut users. I'm surprised it is so nearly unanimous. The above posts make it sound like hiking hut to hut is nearly the only manageable way to hike the Whites although I doubt that is the intent of the various authors. Huts, by my way of thinking, are outrageously expensive ($70-$100 per night?) although they do including dinner and breakfast. Tent sites were $8 last year. Camping outside the 1/4 mile buffer around the huts and tent sites is free. Although, good sites to camp, especially with a water source, outside of the buffer zones can be sparse, they are not unavailable. I have typically used water and even cooked meals at the camp sites or outside the huts, and then hiked on to find a place to camp for the night cuz I like cheap and quite and wild. The caretakers of the huts and campsites also have pretty good ideas on where the good "stealth" camping sites can be found, if you ask them.

[egilbe]

I'd ever go so far as suggest using the RMC campsites and huts. Give you some flexibility, but you need to cook your own food.

[colorado_rob]

Wow, a bunch of hut users. I'm surprised it is so nearly unanimous. The above posts make it sound like hiking hut to hut is nearly the only manageable way to hike the Whites although I doubt that is the intent of the various authors. Huts, by my way of thinking, are outrageously expensive ($70-$100 per night?) although they do including dinner and breakfast.

Our 3-night hut stay (out of 6 nights in the Whites) was just a treat for ourselves, a rare luxury, I didn't mean to imply that one has to stay in the huts to make the Whites reasonable. After 1700 miles of trail, it just plain felt good, and when we repeat the AT (we've started), we'll probably do it again. Yep, damn expensive. If you plan on staying more than a night or two, and are a couple (discount PP membership fee), if you join the AMC it saves you 15% (IIRC) and pays for itself after a night or two. And you get a few discounts at other places.

One other nice thing about hut stays is that it lightens your food load. We started with 3 days of food for 7 days of hiking. I'm getting old, lighter is better! And gorging yourself at the hut dinners and breakfasts was nice too.... Toughest terrain on the entire AT (maybe tied with southern Maine), and I think I gained weight in the Whites.

[Slo-go'en]

I wish some people would stop promoting camping at "stealth" sites in the Whites. There aren't very many of them, they can be hard to find and it's quite possible someone else who knows the area will be there first (like someone from Massachusetts). This is something you can't count on and can't plan for.

Your mileage is set primarily by the spacing between designated (and therefore legal) campsites or huts. If you need to limit your mileage (and no doubt you will), plan to go from designated site to designated site. When doing the Presidential range, staying at Lake of the Clouds is a given and staying at Madison is well worth considering. You can work around the other huts, but it may cause you do more or less mileage then you'd like.

[peakbagger]

I was hoping the OP would come back and tell use if they wanted to go the Hut to Hut or avoid them or something in between. Lot to be said to book Lake of the Crowds and Madison hut as that is a long day (hard to beat on good day) with no good alternatives except dropping down to the RMC sites (which tend to run out of room quite often due to their popularity)

[4eyedbuzzard]

Just to add another component. The hut logistics have been well described by others. What hasn't been added yet is weather and clothing. Typically in the higher elevations above treeline, it is really nice about one out of every three days, okay one other, and crappy the other. It can be beautiful in the morning and turn to crap by afternoon, or vice versa, or anything in between. Three different prevailing weather patterns converge at the Presidential ridge and it makes for unpredictable and rapidly changing weather. ALWAYS consult the higher summits forecast at https://www.mountwashington.org/expe...-forecast.aspx Mt Washington averages can be found at https://www.mountwashington.org/expe...-extremes.aspx Weather down lower, but still above treeline, will not be quite as severe, but it will be close. Typical deviation from average high/low temps can be +/- 10 to 20° on any given day. Something below freezing on higher summits is definitely not out of the question in June - I've seen it snow on Memorial Day weekend down in the valleys, never mind above treeline.

No matter when you go, even if it was later in July/August, you must have a good warm wool or fleece hat (must cover ears as well and be able to shield your head and ears from the wind - windblock fleece highly recommended) and gloves and of course insulating layers. Add wind / rain shell. Have glasses of some sort in case you wind up hiking into the wind. You simply have to stay warm and dry. Hypothermia is a danger 365 days a year in the Whites. Prepare for the possibility of having to take a day off if necessary. There are days (wind, rain, storms) when you simply can't safely, never mind enjoyably, hike above treeline.

And if you stumble upon perfect warm and dry weather for your entire hike - just smile upon your good fortune.

[jj dont play]

Enjoy them and take it slow.
Whites kicked my butt but I also got a stomach bug and/or food poisoning while in that section.
I tried to eat as much as I could at every hit I came across, that helped a good bit calorie wise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rickb]

1). If you should be so lucky to find this guy http://www.audubon.org/field-guide/bird/spruce-grouse take a selfie with it.

2). If you hit Trails at first light you will have them all to yourself for a couple hours. If staying at the huts seriously consider blowing off breakfast for this reason.

3). The Location of Lakes of the Clouds makes it a strong contender if you elect to stay at just one hut

4). Madison hut does not enjoy the logistical advantage of Lakes, but if you hold up there for the night, you get one last shot at clear skies if the weather gods have not been smiling on you the two or three days prior.

5). Don’t walk past the Mount Height summit in the Carter Range because you have already had all the good views.

6). The Notch Hostel

[nsherry61]

I wish some people would stop promoting camping at "stealth" sites in the Whites. . .Your mileage is set primarily by the spacing between designated (and therefore legal) campsites or huts. . .

Slo-go'en, I appreciate your sentiment. And, it may be that my use of the term "stealth" in a previous post was not the best choice of term. Along the AT corridor, which is largely ridge-line hiking in the Whites, there is no doubt that finding places to camp that are more than 200' off the trail, below treeline and more than 1/4 mile from campsites and shelters is somewhat limited, but it is also inappropriate to suggest that camping outside of designated campsites or huts is illegal.

For specifics see this.

Personally, I'd rather not have to put up with the hordes of people using and frankly wearing out my favorite wild areas with the best views. But, alas, I'd rather have a worn out "wilderness" than none at all. I watched the beautiful Oregon Skyline Trail get turned into the PCT. A remote, rugged and scenic trail turned into the PCT highway. It's a loss, but then, maybe also a significant gain?

[rickb]

Slo-go'en, I appreciate your sentiment. And, it may be that my use of the term "stealth" in a previous post was not the best choice of term. Along the AT corridor, which is largely ridge-line hiking in the Whites, there is no doubt that finding places to camp that are more than 200' off the trail, below treeline and more than 1/4 mile from campsites and shelters is somewhat limited, but it is also inappropriate to suggest that camping outside of designated campsites or huts is illegal.

For specifics see this.

As is my habit, I feel compelled to add that there is no BLANKET regulation in the White Mountains that requires one to camp at least 200’ away from the AT in NON WILDERNESS AREAs.

The link you provided is an EXCELENT SUMMARY of the backcountry regulations, but it also includes a section on RECOMMENDED LNT practices, which some (even those who should know better) confuse with the actual regulations (supervisors orders) that are specifically summarized point by point in the brochure.

For some this may be a distinction without a difference — we all aspire to LNT ethics, correct?

But I think it is important for several reasons:

1) So you don’t make a false asumption about the legality of someone’s campsite and let it raise your blood pressure or worse— cause you to say something stupid to a fellow hiker.

2) So you have confidence in the legality of your site selection should a common sense camping option avail itself that is closer to the Trail than 200’ . Along some stretches of the AT this may mean camping on one side of the Trail rather than the other.

3) So you can relax more in the woods when considerering were you — and others — are legally permitted to camp.

BTW, this same principle applies to the so-called blanket “rule” about camping a minimum of 200’ feet away from all water sources.

[peakbagger]

I aqree that the WMNF handout is confusing as it does mix LNT suggestions versus actual regulations. It also does not mention that the WMNF can and does on occasion post otherwise legal camping spots "closed for regeneration" and they dont post those closures anywhere in public except at the closed site.

[BoogieForth]

..But the Whites are scaring me.

(first post..hello! thank you for this community)

I did a section hike sobo from ME to VT and I feel you on the fear of the Whites. No matter how much I read it just seemed a bit daunting with the difficulty mixed in with all the rules about camping, and the weather, especially on Mt Washington. But in the end it was all fine. I had the AWOL guide, Guthook app of ME and NH, and a waterproof map since I heard the trail changes names and with the weather I was paranoid about getting lost or having to improvise. And I still got lost coming out of the Perch campsite. I thought I was on the AT but it was a side trail and I went the wrong direction. I was glad to have the map! As was mentioned, the weather is a big deal and you should be prepared to either bail or zero depending. My Mt Washington climb was fine, cool and cloudy with no views at the top. But a few days before it had been howling 80 mph winds up there. I used http://atweather.org/ for updates.

I tented the whole way and didn’t stay at any huts. It was all official campsites except I stayed at one stealth site that was .4 mi south on the trail from Carter Notch Hut. There’s a trail sign there and large clearings on both sides of the trail and it’s obvious you can tent there. But the huts were really useful for water fill ups, bathrooms, getting warm, weather reports and especially buying basic resupply food - cliff bars etc or baked goods, soup etc. Between the food I had and buying at the huts and Pinkham Notch Visitor’s center, I did not have to resupply. Pinkham Visitor’s center also has a a gear shop and deli.

again traveling south:

Day 1 Gorham to Imp shelter - 8 mi
Day 2 Imp to Carter Notch stealth site .4 mi south of hut - 7 mi
Day 3 Carter Notch to Osgood campsite (I think there’s no shelter here)- 10 mi - This was a very hard day! the Wildcats kicked my butt. Pass by Pinkham Notch Visitor center.
Day 4 Osgood to Perch shelter – 5.8 mi - Another hard one since Mt Madison was all slippery rocks in high winds which almost made me turn back. Pass by Madison hut.
Day 5 Perch to Mizpah Hut/campsite – 11 mi - pass by Lake of the Clouds hut – I had intended to stealth camp near the Clouds hut but there was nothing so I pushed it to Mizpah. It was 7 mi from Perch to Lake of the Clouds and another 4 to Mizpah.
Day 6 Mizpah to Ethan Pond shelter – 9 mi
Day 7 Ethan Pond to Guyot shelter – 10 mi
Day 8 Guyot to Liberty Springs campsite (pretty sure there’s no shelter here) – 12.8 mi - This was another long one and I would've stealthed on the way to Franconia Ridge - there were plum spots north and south of the ridge below treeline, but bad weather was coming and this day was beautiful so I pushed on.
Day 9 Liberty Springs to North Woodstock 7 mi
Day 10 zero in N. Woodstock
Day 11 N. Woodstock to Eliza Brook shelter 8.6 mi
Day 12 Eliza Brook to Beaver Brook shelter – 9 mi
Day 13 Beaver Brook to Jeffers Brook shelter – 9 mi

[ldsailor]

(first post..hello! thank you for this community)

I did a section hike sobo from ME to VT and I feel you on the fear of the Whites. No matter how much I read it just seemed a bit daunting with the difficulty mixed in with all the rules about camping, and the weather, especially on Mt Washington. But in the end it was all fine. I had the AWOL guide, Guthook app of ME and NH, and a waterproof map since I heard the trail changes names and with the weather I was paranoid about getting lost or having to improvise. And I still got lost coming out of the Perch campsite. I thought I was on the AT but it was a side trail and I went the wrong direction. I was glad to have the map! As was mentioned, the weather is a big deal and you should be prepared to either bail or zero depending. My Mt Washington climb was fine, cool and cloudy with no views at the top. But a few days before it had been howling 80 mph winds up there. I used http://atweather.org/ for updates.

Thanks for the itinerary run down. I'll be doing the Whites this summer NOBO. I'm curious. What time of the year did you do your hike? I'm trying to figure out what kind of clothes I'll need when I reach the Whites sometime in late July or early August.