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  1. #1

    Default Patagonia Micro Puff

    Anyone have one? Thoughts? Pluma-fil? Like it a lot but it is an UL piece more so than even the Nano Puff(22 D, no hem pull, etc ). I'm noticing all these marketing pics in highly abrasive environments. It's a 10 D. Hmm? PL Gold Eco was the synthetic sustainable rage. Best thing since sliced bread. Guess the bread got stale very fast?

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Anyone have one? Thoughts? Pluma-fil? Like it a lot but it is an UL piece more so than even the Nano Puff(22 D, no hem pull, etc ). I'm noticing all these marketing pics in highly abrasive environments. It's a 10 D. Hmm? PL Gold Eco was the synthetic sustainable rage. Best thing since sliced bread. Guess the bread got stale very fast?
    I have looked at them at REI. Looks very fragile and would not use in abrasive environment.
    On a more personal note, I find that a lot of these 7D ultralight fabric, especially in black, look like trash bags. But maybe this is just me.

  3. #3

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    Pertex Quantum GL is a 10d.

  4. #4
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Yar... neat piece of gear IMO.



    TL; DR...
    This is not a jacket... it is the lightest fleece or insulation layer I have seen. I'd pack it anyday over an UL down competitor.

    I don't know who actually makes Plumafill, as any searches I've done kick back to Patagonia itself or articles on the jacket.
    I'd guess Primaloft in conjunction/partnership with Patagonia.

    And no plans to abandon Primaloft as they are still doing quite well with the nano-puff and Nano-Air series. Each has their place for now.

    This Plumafill allows some different options and is as close to synthetic down as we have seen. Appears better than even the puffball or PLG down blend.

    I think one issue with this piece is marketing... It's called a jacket. So people have treated it, reviewed it, or compared it as such without looking at it for what it is.

    Most synthetic jackets are replacements for fleece in some way. Fleece is the original synthetic fill.
    All insulation are replacements or alternatives to down in some way really for us... though Wool is a good insulation too.

    As it stands-
    The Nano-Puff is a time tested, tough for UL jacket. You can beat the crap out of it. It's like an insulated Houdini Jacket in use. Combining a windshell and insulation to make a very effective piece for mainly established trails. It is a nice substitution for the old standby... the North Face Denali jacket. 2lbs of 200 wt badass jacket. Or a lighter synchilla if you like.
    12 ounces, $200 bucks... if you were to own one piece... this is a really nice one for backpackers. It uses Primaloft Gold Eco (an increase in recycled content driven by patagonia vs standard Primaloft Gold).
    Packs small, dries fast, takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Got pockets too which is nice.

    The Nano-Air is a newer jacket meant to be a mid-layer or very breathable active layer. It is much more comfortable and a bit warmer than the Nano-Puff when used as an insulation layer... but can still be a standalone jacket, though not as warm in any kind of breeze... bit like a raw 200 wt fleece in that regard really... which was why TNF added all that nylon to the Denali to begin with- to cut wind.
    A bit more at $250, and a bit heavier at 13.6 ounces. This is a great three season piece when you may need something you can walk in during the early hours or after dinner to keep warm but keep breathing. It's better to sleep in and uses 'full range' which is a Patagonia exclusive version of Primaloft Gold (from what I can tell). It is stretchier and moves better.

    The Nano-Air has become my go to casual layer due to comfort... I find I can wear it to work to beat the chill, but also continue to wear it with little discomfort even indoors. I quickly overheat in the nano-puff due to the shell layer (much like slipping on a houdini windshell retains heat). I often sleep in it when camping as it's not worth taking off... and I think it is by far the best vest insulation around.

    BUT... i'd be hard pressed to call the Nano Air a true jacket. It is an insulation piece with other functions. It pairs really well with a WPB shell and in the colder months my Houdini gets swapped out for an M10 jacket. Pair the Nano-Air with a shell and you have a solid winter jacket and this combo is much more comfortable than other options... including nano puff. In fact that is precisely what this jacket was intended to do... replace other insulation layers under a shell for active users. It does that job awesome.

    Now to the Micro Puff...
    $250 for the JACKET... 8.3 ounces of weight.
    To be truthful- haven't seen one in person and I haven't bought one. Despite what some may think... as much as I love patagonia products I never buy them the first year as they are rarely onsale. The Patagonia spring sale ends today... and there are no Micro Puffs. No big suprise as there were no M10 jackets or Nano-Air's to be had on sale the first year either. I waited two years to get each of them and scored them at 50% off. As I write that nano air is $150 in regular fit, and though gone you can get a nano-puff for $100. So at some point this micro puff will be onsale for $125-175 and I will get one for sure.

    What it is... it ain't a jacket. That material is perfectly acceptable for a sleeping bag shell, and commonly found in many SUL down pieces. As mentioned, it's brand name Pertex fabric, not a knockoff. Same .67 ounce taffetta I build quilts out of and everyone else does. All the silly nilly reviews talking about being terrified of cutting it, snagging it, or not taking it bushwhacking are dumb. Not a single person here thinks it's a swell idea to go bushwhacking with a SUL down quilt... stands to reason you won't want to do that in this jacket. The Nano-puff is a beater... if that's what you want then it's cheaper and only a 3.7 ounce penalty. Or you could wear a windshell over the micro puff and STILL be lighter than many competing products.

    So what is it... a synthetic (down replacement) insulation layer.
    As it stands...
    A full zip R1 fleece is 13.5 ounces.
    An R1 pullover is 11.9 ounces.

    A brief pause might suggest that the eventually likely pull over version of the micro puff may be worth waiting for at a 1 to 1.5 ounce savings if looking to push to 6.5 ounces.
    The Nano puff pullover is 1.9 ounces lighter than the nano-puff jacket... so in theory and in practice a 6-6.5 ounce version of this is quite doable and likely to show up.
    My go to favorite is a Cap 4... now a thermal weight in the new system.
    That guy is a pullover at 6.2 ounces.

    So here we have the micro puff at 8.3 ounces.
    Specs and my decent eye fer such things tell me that this piece will be warmer than a Cap 4... likely on par with or warmer than an R1.
    I base that on the nano-puff and nano-air being warmer than each of those pieces... and a few accounts indicating the micro may be warmer than all of them.

    Compare that to a 100 wt micro fleece- about 8-10 ounces with no zips... this appears warmer by specs.
    Compare that to a 200 wt fleece- about 14-18 ounces... this is likely on par with warmth.

    So what is the micro puff in my mind...
    About the lightest synthetic fleece I've seen. And perhaps the most effective insulation layer for a UL hiker.

    The whole point of fleece is that it is warm when wet. But it's bulky and heavier than down.
    Fleece is durable, affordable, and works.
    Technical baselayers can blur the line a bit... but still a bit heavier. Though you can easily hike in a cap 4 or R1 fleece to be fair... you wouldn't really want to bushwhack in any of these pieces.

    It's too easy to sweat out or damp out down when worn as an active baselayer. You want to save that down puffy for camp use only... that's fine. In practice though most folks pull that on the second they stop hiking and wait for the sweat to 'dry' inside the down jacket. You can do that with synthetics... not so much with down.

    So where I see the potential for the micro puff is replacing my mid-layers... perhaps all of them on many trips.
    I could easily see myself wearing a cap 1 tank top... or a button up sun shirt as my primary shirt... especially as that is my go to first layer now.
    Adding from there I would picture the micro puff being the first piece to meet all my insulation needs... perhaps well into the freezing range.
    Using a windshell as normal during warmer months, and a WPB during very wet or cold temps.

    Coupled with Undies and a skirt... or running shorts with liners... and that is a very low weight, low bulk, versatile above freezing three season system with a low piece count and as little as 20 ounces plus socks if I toss in a bandana.

    I couldn't see myself tooling around in anything but urban adventures in the micro puff as a jacket... but I'm sure it works fine to filter water and boil dinner at camp as a stop piece. Having a full zip makes it pretty handy for that actually.
    It certainly seems more than tough enough to wear under my Houdini... and perfectly great under my WPB M10 while hiking in cold weather.

    Did I rush out an buy one... nope.
    If I had a trip to go on I might... but I'm warm enough at my desk or sewing machine so I can wait for the inevitable sale. And the 4 ounces saved versus the Nano Puff is huge by gram weenie standards, but not worth full price for me this second.
    I'll probably have to wear it in an ugly color... but it can go with the other blaze orange and puke lime green pieces I have.
    $150 sounds good though... specially considering bringing a cap 2 and cap 4 (my standard versatile insulation package) probably costs the same and weighs more.
    One day though... for sure I will own a version of that jacket. I could easily see exactly where it would fit into my system and why I'd take it. Even if that pullover pops up... I think I could spring for the ounce of luxury in the full zip.

    Only thing I don't get... is why Patagonia and those who review this piece can't see it as anything other than a jacket.
    Maybe $250 is simply too much to ask someone to pay for a 'mere' insulation layer. Or the reviewers too focused on individual pieces of gear rather than the systems they could fit in... And of course your average urban adventurer wouldn't feel quite as cool walking for coffee in an insulation layer.

    Besides it has a full zipper... insulation pieces don't have those.

    So... let it be a jacket. I'm sure enough people bought it... and Patagonia dumped enough money into it that it will be around long enough for me to get on sale. I'm pretty sure it will become my go to first on insulation layer eventually. Looks like it packs to nothing and if it is as tough as my other primaloft insulation I anticipate beating the crap out of it for sometime once I get it. The beauty of a synthetic is even if you tear the shell... your stuff doesn't puke feathers so baring some catastrophic failure you just patch it eventually if you get around to it.


    PS_ all weights were off the website... typically a men's medium. Your size XL will weigh more.

  5. #5
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Figured I'd look for some updated reviews since it's been long enough...

    This one has a page 2 followup. Seems to match or exceed my expectations and leaves me excited to hunt for it during April's 50% off clearance sale.

    http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...o-puff-hoody/2

  6. #6
    Registered User Maineiac64's Avatar
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    Just ordered a nano air from steep and cheap, $164 with save30 promo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Figured I'd look for some updated reviews since it's been long enough...

    This one has a page 2 followup. Seems to match or exceed my expectations and leaves me excited to hunt for it during April's 50% off clearance sale.

    http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...o-puff-hoody/2

    Enjoyed your thoughts. Thank you for the analysis.

    i know the link isn’t yourvreview, but the analysis of where it fits was too long to clip.

    Looks like it makes an excellent camp puffy. And some other uses.
    Last edited by Ethesis; 02-28-2018 at 22:48.

  8. #8
    Hiker bigcranky's Avatar
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    Interesting. I've been carrying the same ~12 oz down hoody for years. Love it, and it's never gotten wet or even so damp as to noticeably affect the warmth, but....

    I note that with the Micro Puff, the hooded version is only an ounce heavier. Considering that the hood would replace my warm camp/sleeping hat, that's not bad.
    Ken B
    'Big Cranky'
    Our Long Trail journal

  9. #9

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    I have to take extra ginko biloba, NAC, and acetyl L carnitine and start O2 to grasp all that. The quality of content in your posts are deemed worth it though. I knew I could get you to relieve some pushback I receive for the length of my posts.

  10. #10

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    Most interesting thread of the day good gawd

  11. #11

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    The so called silly nilly reviews were inspired by what are silly nilly pics of the micro puff being used off trail in abrasive/harsh environments and abrasive activities such as climbing/mountaineering as the outermost piece. I believe the reviews you relate also noticed the marketed pics of the micro puff in use. You even just said a shell over the top would be beneficial in some (many?) apps. The pics don't agree with the marketed description unless there's SUL climbing were not aware of.

  12. #12

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    Be sides, it has a full zipper...insulation pieces don't have those.

    Not by my definition. Insulation pieces surely can have full zippers!

  13. #13

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    I get you comparing losing very dry fluffy high FP down -puking out - compared to MAYBE some synthetic insulation but the micro puff compartments contain so little Plumafil, obvious when backlighted, not good to lose any of it. It can easily result in cold spots and as said it is an insulation piece.

    Also, somewhat like the TNF Thermoball insulation Plumafill are somewhat like fluffy balls closely resembing med high end FP down clusters ie; it's got a greater proclivity to puke out than say Climashield APEX.

  14. #14

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    Those are my current contentions. If I look more...Understand the bigger picture though. I like 90 % of your conclusions.

    Your input, however long winded (imagine me saying that), is always appreciated.

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  17. #17
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    I get you comparing losing very dry fluffy high FP down -puking out - compared to MAYBE some synthetic insulation but the micro puff compartments contain so little Plumafil, obvious when backlighted, not good to lose any of it. It can easily result in cold spots and as said it is an insulation piece.

    Also, somewhat like the TNF Thermoball insulation Plumafill are somewhat like fluffy balls closely resembing med high end FP down clusters ie; it's got a greater proclivity to puke out than say Climashield APEX.
    Refer back to the two posts above... had to post pics from my phone. I know you know... but fer the kiddos following along.
    I work in construction, specifically light ga. structural metal buildings such as hotels, mid-rise residential, and similar stuff like schools, hospitals, etc. I prefabricate those buildings for site installation. So my day to day is mainly at my desk with frequent trip to the yard (outside) or the shop (unheated building) and I work around fairly sharp pieces of metal, grinders, and screws. So it's not that unlikely that I tear my clothing from time to time as a result.

    I've had the nano-puff (orange) for a good 4-5 years. The tear pictured was at least 4 years ago. A clean slice from carrying metal studs at a jobsite during a field visit. I don't patch them on purpose, as it's a good opportunity to see how things hold up. It's been washed a good dozen times. The hole hasn't grown, and though you can't see it, there was a clean, but partial slice through the PLG that is actually still doing fine without fraying out. The Nano Puff is what I grab for shoulder seasons as my primary jacket, I also wear it for side jobs or on the occasional trip to the woods on poorly maintained trails or when I may be just poking around. I've never torn it in the woods, just at work.

    I've had the Nano-Air since late last season (after season sale) so really only have one good full winter on it. That's the grey jacket... a rare decent color find for my discount shopping. That tear happened when I caught an exposed screw head slipping through a stud wall on a jobsite visit. Again, been washed at least once since then and worn nearly daily since. That jacket is what I've been wearing for daily wear as it's a very comfy and friendly jacket. A bit puffier than the nano-puff, and a bit warmer. It's what I start to grab when temps are dipping to below freezing and the nano-puff isn't quite up to it. I wear it in cold weather when walking, then slip my WPB shell over it to get me between zero and 20* temps with a base layer or two. With a Cap 1, Cap 4, Nano-Air, and Shell I'm pretty solid at a group hang (standing around mainly and drinking) near zero.

    I also scored a Nano-Air vest which I wear ALOT. I can toss that into the mix above and call it zero without much debate. Though I do have a Patagonia down vest that better works as it can then be slipped into the footbox of my quilt at night to help reduce the cold feet problem when in a gathered end hammock.

    So... back to the Micro Puff and Plumafill specifically.
    As you may recall I once demonstrated my 'homemade' thermoball insulation by taking some PLG tufts to roll them up.
    Thermoball just registers on the fill power scale around 550-600 depending on who you ask, but it's still loose fill.
    Thermoball is not a good comparison in my opinion to Plumafill... though it is probably the closest in physical appearance to synthetic down.

    Really what we are talking is the ability to trap tiny air pockets when discussing recreating down, but one of the issues with down is that it is loose fill.

    Plumafill is a string. One reviewer mentioned 'feather boa', another suggested Xmas tree tinsel (more accurate). Patagonia describes a 'carrier filament' with individual strands anchored to it.
    End result is more like a cluster of down, if said cluster could be linked up into a chain much like a chemical formula diagram showing atoms linked endlessly.

    Synthetics are like Ramen noodles. You mix up a bunch of stuff in a vat, then you press it through a needle or sieve.
    Apex is like a block of uncooked ramen. Stiff, not very flexible, and made of one long noodle curled back on itself to form a sheet of 'noodle'.
    Much like ramen in your pack... over time small bits break off with compression and abuse... and at some point your block of noodles has too many holes.

    Primaloft products are more like cooked ramen. Shorter fibers that are dumped into a pile. Like you cooked the ramen- tossed it at a cookie sheet and let it dry again just enough to carry it around.
    If you don't properly quilt (reinforce) this sheet of noodles... it can eventually migrate apart. But it remains fairly soft and flexible so retains much of it's initial performance over time.

    PURE SPECULATION WARNING-
    There is no technical data on Plumafill I know of, nor will I be receiving any of it to make quilts out of anytime soon. It was only last year I was allowed to by Eco. I can buy Thermoball in the form of what they call Primaloft Down Blend... which is a 750 fill blend of thermoball and down.

    But basically... this very likely a Climbashield weight "Noodle" running continuously (the carrier filament) with a bunch of super silky thin angle hair pasta (thinner than human hair) Primaloft Gold filaments shot at the continous filament while hot off the stove. As it cools... you basically get a string of tinsel.

    The technical term is continuous filament vs Short staple fills. This product appears to be a unique hybrid of the two in a new form. Traditional synthetic insulation is sold in batts, or sheets. Thermoball was simply the raw product shot with no form... loose fill like down.

    Because it has a form, it can be controlled much better. Sure it can shift a little, and just like tinsel... an individual piece can tear off.
    But functionally it will act more like a bunch of down clusters on a string... like making popcorn tinsel.

    So... unlike your SUL 900 fill down puffy... when you pat your chest you won't make a 'hole', As you walk you won't find all the down migrates away from the portion of the jacket between your armpit and pocket. It's down, but it can't shift.

    Yes you might lose a strand, or find that a puff or two escapes, but that is likely manufacturing 'dust' so to speak. When I build a Primaloft Gold quilt my cutting table gets fuzz on it from spreading the batts, my clothes get a strip of 'thermoball' forming along my side as I feed it into the sewing machine, and a bit of fluff accumulates at the sewing needle. So it's likely that simply handling and installing the Plumafill into the garment loosens enough fibers that you'll find a stray. Much like you do with down when it's new.

    SHADY MATH TO FOLLOW:
    They list this as 65gsm fill. But it's not sheet goods, and it's not loose fill... so that's messy. In watching the videos and applying an educated eye for measurement- let's call that stuff 1" thick uncompressed. Not unreasonable but could be off by a bit.

    65GSM- converted to SQyd- is 65x.83 or 54g per SY.
    A square yard is 1296 sq in, and an inch thick means 1296CUIN.
    54G/28.5- 1.89 ounces.
    1296CU in of fill /1.89 ounces = 686 CUIN/ounce

    Which means 686 Fill power down.

    Now if I guess 3/4" thick then that is 972CUIN/1.89 ounces= 515 or so fill power.

    So there is a high and a low rough calc... though I'd lean more towards the high estimate based upon thermoball numbers.

    So... if you're looking for a reason why this synthetic might be doing as well or better than down... 650+ Fill power is a pretty sweet number. Especially if you don't have shifting or cold spots.

    It would also explain why the review I linked above concluded that the 65g filled Micro Puff was warmer than The Nano Puff (60g PLG) which is sub 500FP.

    As you know from Down.... not all ounces of stuff (or grams per sq meter) is created equal.

    Plumafill is a new way to use stuff (synthetic) AND a new way to install stuff.
    Down requires certain construction because it is a loose fill. Including baffle spacing as little as 1".
    Plumafill, being a very fluffy string appears to be able to be mapped out just like a child's maze.. just enough stitching to keep the line continuous.

    This would reduce the average depth of the piece and increase the average loft of the fill.

    So... it's quite possible that the 'effective fill' of the jacket or average depth could equal down or exceed it in real life.

    An inch thick down puffy, sewn 1" on Center... is effectively 1/2" of loft on average.
    If the Plumafill can do something similar, with less stitching... it's effective loft would be higher on average.
    This appears similar to a Karo Step baffle in function, and I'm eyeballing roughly 2" on center with further reductions for the maze pattern.

    Not that it's a number anyone but a super nerd would consider... but if there was a Stitches per Sq yard number for down clothing... I believe you'd see one of the lowest counts for a light or medium wt piece. Potentially as much as half.

    So if you had even a 2" on center down baffle distance in that inch thick down layer you'd be closer to 3/4" of loft on average. A 50% increase in loft simply from the stitching pattern.

    Combined with less dead zones or cold spots due to shifting, dampness, or losses from shedding and it could potentially beat down of a much higher fillpower in real life use.

    There are many pieces to the insulation puzzle... construction of the piece is just as, if not more important than the fill used in it. There are few companies at the level of design function Patagonia is at.

    Do more with less.... looks like they found a way to take an inferior fill (by fill power metrics) and make it superior. Or at least equal.

    Providing of course all my rampant rambling and speculation is mildly on track.

  18. #18
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    The so called silly nilly reviews were inspired by what are silly nilly pics of the micro puff being used off trail in abrasive/harsh environments and abrasive activities such as climbing/mountaineering as the outermost piece. I believe the reviews you relate also noticed the marketed pics of the micro puff in use. You even just said a shell over the top would be beneficial in some (many?) apps. The pics don't agree with the marketed description unless there's SUL climbing were not aware of.
    SUL... or fast and light as they call it... Alpinism is very much a thing.
    No... makes little to no sense to chimney up a sandstone sport climbing route in this jacket.
    But makes perfect sense to carry a piece like this on a fast and light alpine ascent.

    MOST of the technical clothing and gear that has washed down to us lowly woods walkers has been driven by innovations and pushes in mountaineering and alpine sports.

    I wouldn't have patagucci to gush over or the north face to have worked for if Yvon and Doug were not pushing hard in the mountains.

    We wouldn't have a Nano Air to talk about if Tommy Caldwell wasn't ripping off routes in Patagonia.

    Uli Stek is a recently lost pioneer in that pursuit.

    The recently passed Jim Bridwell went fast and light to pioneer the 'nose in a day' back in 1975.

    Hell probably wouldn't have any trail FKT's if it wasn't for speed climbing.

    The debate between siege style tactics and faster, lighter ascents is an old one indeed and if anything 'fast and light' is a much more commonly accepted practice in those sports than it is in ours.

    While you and I might not want to trash a $300 jacket... if it holds up long enough to pioneer a route or do something never been done... then yes I'd wear a micro puff as a shell and call it the greatest in the world if it survived to accomplish my mission. Not saying it's disposable gear... but 'literally just enough to sustain life' is the end definition of SUL.'

    Joey Camps is a big 'skimo' guy... really this hiking thing is what he does to stay in shape for the winters. So fast and light applies to many outdoor pursuits.

    Realistically... camping at ground level, in fair weather and generally woodland terrain probably poses more danger to a SUL shell fabric than trudging up a snow covered slope or bombing powder.
    Simply walking a few steps off a moderately maintained trail to take a dump probably exposes your shell to more thorns, branches, brambles or dangers than a week on a snow covered mountains.
    So really... what I should say...
    Is the marketing is geared for it's intended audience. But we are not it.

    in our very limited and mildly specific application... this a SUL or even XUL insulation layer. Requiring the requisite care and diligence of any similar piece of gear.
    Want more durable... then take the few ounce penalty and do it.

    Again... if looked at as insulation (not a jacket.) then one might assume you'd wear it under a shell frequently.

    What is silly nilly is folks pretending they are really going to take this jacket out and thrash in the mountains like Killian Jornet.
    Especially when somebody like Killian probably understands exactly what he's bringing, how to protect it, and why he chose it.

    A weekend skier probably has a better chance of tearing this with a snag on the chair lift or catching a splinter on the rustic ski lodge timber framing at the bar than they would blasting powder.
    A snowboarder could easily shred a jacket like this on a bad fall.
    A local crag climber could easily step back into a bit of brush while belaying his partner and tear this thing too.

    It's being billed as the lightest insulation piece in the world... is it likely delicate... DUH! Do you even have to ask?
    Most folks won't ever use it as intended.

    If that's the concern- then go buy the nanopuff. Or wear a fleece. Or whatever.

    But it's silly nilly to compare apples to oranges.
    If you want fast and light then buy it, and review the pieces in that context.
    If you want bomber gear then buy it, and review the piece in that context.

    But if you want to make a pretty educated choice, review the piece in the context of what it can and cannot do fairly. Provide the information so your reader can do their own risk reward evaluation of the product.
    Not exactly the first 10d shell or .67 ounce fabric based thing to hit the market... if anything using that shell with synthetic seems to be a MUCH better choice than with down.

    In reality nobodies life is on the line... If I buy that thing (at half off) and it only lasts a season then the worst possible thing that will happen is I'll figure I pushed it a bit too far. I got $150 to risk on it and I make gear so I've got a personal interest for that reason. If it rips...boo hoo. Life will go on. If I die because my 8 ounce jacket 'failed' then leave me on the ground to rot.

    Most folks are like Big Cranky... if ain't broke, don't fix it. Somehow he's managed to live a fairly continuous life and take a few hikes at the same time with the gear he's got.
    When the time comes... he might consider one of these new fangled high falootin jackets them two yahoos Bill and Dogwood was debatin.
    Or maybe he swaps in a new piece every year and this will be the one he picks to improve his kit.

    But it's a few ounces of better and the world is a big place with better things to worry about generally speaking.

    It's just walking. If you bought a piece of SUL extremo gear and it didn't work... meh. Odds are pretty high you will live to hike another day.

  19. #19

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    Several jacket/vest manufacturers are experimenting with unusual compartment shapes that hold insulation. For example, this occurs on the MB Plasma, which we've talked about in PMs, and the Pat Micro Puff. Its my assumption they are desiging the seams that way to reduce cold spots and stitching which adds to reducing wt. When ive seen both back lit in stores they both show signs of some settling insulation. My guess is the Micro Puff might benefit from some gentle refluffing similar to down.

    I see the Nano Puff as you do a tougher more durable more featured layer still a light or possibly UL piece though.

    The Micro Puff is a solid UL really SUL minimalist layer.

    After PatagonIA and REI pinged me with the wt difference between the Nano Puff and Micro Puff I was surprised how much less wt in XL the micro puff is. It comes at some cost though as it's really a SUL layer. I want to note what happens over the longer term using the micro puff for backpacking.

  20. #20
    Journeyman Journeyer
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    Has anyone looked at this jacket from EMS? https://www.ems.com/ems-men%E2%80%99...4.html#start=1
    Sort of a clone of the nano puff but has 80g of PrimaLoft Gold. I just got one at half price yesterday but have not had a chance to try it out. Looks like decent quality.

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