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  1. #1

    Default Flip Flop starting at SNP (Waynesboro)

    With respect to weather when is best (earliest) time to start this hike? I'm thinking mid April, timing arrival in Harper's Ferry for the Flip Flop festival April 28-29. Lastly, what kind of hike (difficulty) to expect between Waynesboro and Harper's Ferry?

    Thanks everyone.

  2. #2
    Registered User Turtle-2013's Avatar
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    Mid April is fine ... you may still get cold and snow (I have just south of Waynesboro in April), but no more likely than if you were in the Smokey's during the same time block.

    As you difficulties ... you need to check and see when the waysides open along the Skyline Drive ... they are the primary resupply along that section. I found the entire section fairly easy and straight forward....

  3. #3
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    I've found this section delightful in April, I've actually done it twice, and coincidentally we plan on doing it yet again this April for my wife's benefit. I think we'll be doing Daleville to Harpers, maybe PenMar if we are moving well.

    The terrain in this section (north of Waynesboro) of the AT is very easy-peasy, one can do big miles if so inclined, and as said, those waysides in SNP are mighty handy when it comes to carrying less food!

  4. #4

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    The SNP isn't too hard, but the south end is a little more bumpy then the north end. Looks like all the services except Loft Mountain will be open by April 1st.

    The only real consideration is Waynesboro isn't easy to get to by public transportation. Charlottesville is the closest you can get by train/bus and that's 20 miles away from Rock Fish Gap (where you pick up the trail). If you can get someone to drive you there (Ohio isn't that far away), then never mind. Getting the SNP out of the way in the spring is a good idea, but going directly to HF is easier logistically.
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  5. #5
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    I just completed this section (although in reverse) this past October. It was a great hike for me in almost every aspect. It was (surprisingly) uncrowded, and I was able to "stay solo" virtually the entire hike (then again, my pace wasn't much more than 1.5mph, so most people I met moved on past me with ease.) Only one shelter/tenting area was filled, but that was due to the heavy, post-hurricane rain that came through. I did very much enjoy the wide variety of people I met.

    Personally, I didn't find the entire section to be quite as easy as some have described it -- but I am 55, have arthritic knees, and am generally kind of a ninny. Since I started at HF, that meant I was on the "Rollercoaster" on day #2, and those 14 miles were a very rocky grind for me (especially given the unusual heat and humidity.) If I had done the hike NOBO, as you plan to, I expect that stretch would have been much easier than it was.

    I also recall some rocky, ankle-twisting stretches between Rod Hollow Shelter and HF that I wasn't prepared for.

    I found that the central section of SNP was indeed pretty easy, even for me. I had 14 and 15 AT mile days here, which was perfect for me (I say "AT miles" because I did a few short side trails as well.)

    The biggest challenge was water. It was very, very dry and even spigots at a couple of picnic grounds were turned off. Hopefully this will be better for you in April.

    Lewis Mountain campground is a good stop -- nice quiet campground, full store, and showers if you want. Loft Mountain Campground has the same, but is huge and noisy with RV's.

    As has been said, you might want to check the opening dates for the various facilities, waysides, etc. It is easy (but expensive) to use the waysides, camp stores, and lodges to resupply through the park proper, however north of the park (i.e., north of Elk Wallow Wayside) you'll have to figure your logistics for resupply, as it can be another 3-7 days to Harper's Ferry depending on your pace.

    If you find need for a shuttle, I know that you can depend on Sharon Johnson & Adam Stanley (Stanimal); I don't have their numbers handy, but they're not hard to find.

    This is a great section that I would do again & again. There is a lot of beauty and history in this section - enjoy and have a great hike!
    fortis fortuna adjuvat

  6. #6

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    Thank you all for the kind informative replies. I'm thinking of having family drive me down to Waynesboro from Central Ohio. I'm mostly concerned about the physical demands and resupply. I'm older and carrying extra pounds that I want to shed on the trail. I have no real time constraints so going at the speed my body allows works fine. I had read previously that SNP is a good choice to start a Flip Flop and your posts seem to conform that. I'm aware that I'll be rewarded with the roller coaster for finishing SNP. Thanks again everyone.

  7. #7
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    I've done SNP in mid April in full once and many times in sections. A beautiful time of year, leaves not yet on trees so you get the views, it isn't as frigid at night, and daytime highs are comfortable. The trail is pretty easy by AT standards and if you time it right, the waysides will be opening and you can travel light. As for the roller coaster north of Ashby Gap, it sounds worse than it is and you have Bears Den hostel toward the end of the roller coaster to look forward to.

  8. #8
    Registered User LittleRock's Avatar
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    I'll be out there hiking the SNP section right around that same time, hope our paths cross!
    It's all good in the woods.

  9. #9

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    Agree with others - I think it's a great time to hike SNP and beyond.

    Weather-wise, the biggest challenge is the possibility of cold rain. Make sure you have adequate waterproofing and a dry set of clothes. Fortunately, the shelters are frequent enough that you can avoid setup and takedown of a tent in the rain.

  10. #10
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    Weather should be nice in SNP at that time. While you are in Waynesboro make sure you eat at Mings.

  11. #11

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    Just received my NOBO AT Guide download and see Mings listed. Question: allow how many days between Rock Fish Gap and HF for a older novice hiker starting their hike? Would like to be in HF for FF festival 4/28-4/29.

  12. #12

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    Trying to put myself in your shoes from what I have learned from other flip-floppers: if you want to start mid-April you might even consider starting at Swift Run Gap, at 115.6 south of Harpers Ferry. It is one of the two locations in the 100-mile section where highways cross the 100-mile Shenandoah National Park/Skyline Drive section.

    Keep in mind many of the people in this forum are mostly very experienced hikers. If they are thru-hikers--or section-hikers who have done a lot of the A.T.--Shenandoah is easy *in comparison* to other parts of the Appalachian Trail. If their first experience with Shenandoah was as a thru-hikers, they were super athletes and extremely efficient in their backpacking/hiking skills by the time they reached Shenandoah.

    Shenandoah has a lot of up and down. Yes, the grade is gentler than most areas of the A.T., the treadway is smoother than most of the mid-Atlantic and New England, and the climbs are usually only 500' at a time, 1000' at most. But check out this compressed profile of the A.T.: http://appalachiantrail.org/home/exp...state/Virginia (scroll down the page a bit). Yes, the profile is really exaggerated, but put that a one end of the spectrum of how Shenandoah might be viewed, compared with the "walk in the park" descriptions at the other end.

    If you've got a 35 pound pack (and you should have cold-weather gear starting out in mid-April at those elevations), and if you are age 55 and not in the shape of your life, and haven't done any or much backpacking, well, it probably will be hard. Not easy.

    I'd suggest 8-10 miles a day, with a few zeros in between to let your body recover with the intense new regimin your putting yourself through. Maybe stay in a lodge or cabin on one of those cold, rainy days when it's 38 degrees and the wind is blowing (if you're lucky enough to find yourself in the right place at the right time), or even go into Luray from Thornton Gap to stay at a hostel or motel. Quite a few of the shelters (called huts in Shenandoah) are 13 miles apart. That's a stretch for a novice. Not to say you can't do it. But why over-extend at the beginning?

    If it puts things in perspectives, flip-floppers who start from Harpers Ferry can even consider the 40 miles of Maryland as quite challenging. I remember a group of mostly (but not all) older who hikers who said they felt "beat up" after taking 5 days to hike Maryland. That's 8 miles a day in what is considered the easiest part of the Trail. And they were so ready for a zero day in town. True, Maryland is rockier that Shenandoah, but it doesn't have the elevation change that Shenandoah does.

    Consider keeping your mileage very conservative in the beginning. How many hours of strenuous exercise are you doing at home? Does it make sense to go from 30 minutes or even 2 hours a day to 10 or 12 hours a day? If you're 20-something, your body may be able to adapt - if you're lucky. Fifty-something, it's a different story.

    The hard part is seeing more experienced hikers fly by. You just need a mental strategy to deal with that. Hike your own hike, to thine own self be true, whatever works for you.

    Instead of comparing yourself to those hikers (and if you do see nobos, they will likely be the young, tough, fast-moving, disciplined ones who are doing 25 + miles a day), think about those friends, relatives and acquaintances who told you who are crazy or would never make it. Or think of friends and relatives in nursing homes or battling health issues who would give their eye teeth to be doing what you are doing. Think of the average American who takes just 5,900 steps a day (on flat ground on asphalt without packs on their backs). Think of Grandma Gatewood. She was successful (3 times) by just keeping on, and she didn't burn up the trail. (She did fail the first time, but that just incentivized her to prepare better for her next attempt). Thru-hiking is tougher physically when you are in your 50s, but every year thousands of 20-something hikers drop out, and many for reasons unrelated to the physical aspect. So far, 179 people age 50 and over reported completing thru-hikes for last year (2017).

    What would happen if you planned low miles and ended up going farther than expected? You'd have to get transportation back to the Flip Flop Festival and then back to where you left the Trail. Transportation shouldn't be too hard to find--there are a lot of shuttle providers in the Harpers Ferry area.

    Here's a tip about resupply in Shenandoah: if you stay at the lodges (both in the middle of the central section of the park), you can send yourself a package there (at least you could the last time I checked, which I do periodically, but haven't for a few years).

    Whatever you decide, kudos to you for considering a flip flop thru-hike! First and foremost, I hope it works out well for you. And by starting your thru-hike mid-Trail you are helping conserve the Trail by dispersing use. This also helps hiker-friendly businesses be more viable and sustainable by extending their seasons. The more hiker-friendly businesses along the Trail, the more options hikers have, and the more support the A.T. has in local communities--which is very important for the long-term preservation of the Trail. So thank you for being bold and not afraid to do something different from the norm!

  13. #13
    Registered User GolfHiker's Avatar
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    Laurie: Outstanding response, as we've come to expect from you. I will concur on all you have said about the differences between novice & veteran, between young & old(er). I am part of the old crowd, and I was very impressed by how well we all hiked the AT, from Georgia to Maine. It's not a contest, and honestly, once you are out there almost no one cares about your age. Just do the miles.

    I did notice you referenced those over 50 to complete the Trail in '17. Any idea how many were over 60? 65?

    Thanks.
    "How can something this hard be so much fun".

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singto View Post
    Just received my NOBO AT Guide download and see Mings listed. Question: allow how many days between Rock Fish Gap and HF for a older novice hiker starting their hike? Would like to be in HF for FF festival 4/28-4/29.
    It took me 13 days to get from HF to Waynesboro last time I did that section, 3 years ago at age 62. But I'm an experienced hiker, with a modest weight pack (~25 pounds) and in pretty good shape. I had one 20+ mile day in there too. I left May 1st and the weather was good, in fact a little too warm.

    As an novice hiker and a little (or a lot?) overweight, your probably looking at up to 3 weeks. You should probably figure on just going shelter to shelter. That means you have to start in early April to get to HF by the 28th. The weather in early April can be pretty nasty or it could be really nice or a little of both (most likely). It's really a crap shoot. The way the weather patterns are in such flux these days, don't really know what to expect anymore.
    Although it would be nice to get the SNP out of the way, if the weather in early April looks to be not very good, you'd be better off waiting until the kick off to start and head out with everyone else.
    BTW, I wasn't all that impressed with Mings.
    Last edited by Slo-go'en; 01-21-2018 at 13:01.
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  15. #15

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    Some great new posts, thank you Lauriep and others. I'm really starting to think that Slo-go'en's suggestion of just starting out in Harper's Ferry at the kick-off is best. My reasoning: I've lived overseas for several years and haven't seen much of my family during that time. Starting a couple weeks later will allow me more time with my family, hike prep and defeating jet lag between arriving back in the US and leaving for the hike. It's also far more easier, logistically (as Slo-go'en mentioned earlier in the thread), to get to HF as compared to Waynesboro, especially from central Ohio. Just a short plane flight on Southwest ($59 and free luggage) to D.C. and a short train trip to HF. I was hoping to get started earlier than the end of April but I have no serious time constraints at the back end, so what the heck. A couple questions: Does anyone know what items I won't be allowed to have on the DC subway and the train between DC and HF, I'm thinking hiking poles, etc.? If leaving HF at the end of April can I pack a lighter sleeping bag (summer bag with liner) but keep clothes layers for warmth? Again, thank you everyone.

  16. #16
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    No ones going to search your pack either on the DC metro nor on the Amtrak or commuter rail to HF

  17. #17
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    Once you get to Harper's Ferry, by all means spend a day or so there before hitting the trail. Spending time walking and exploring the Park, or taking in the view from Maryland Heights is well worth it. And of course stop in at the ATC!

    I stayed at the Econolodge (about a mile walk - on the AT - from the train station). Reasonably priced, and they let me mail a supply box to myself so that I didn't have to worry about hauling it all on the train or worry about finding it in town.
    fortis fortuna adjuvat

  18. #18

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    Trains/subway is no problem. Airplane is. No stove fuel of any kind. But there is an outfitter in HF, so you can get some when you get there. Also, there are no grocery stores in HF, so you want to have 3-4 days of food with you when you arrive.
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  19. #19

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    Thank you again for the kind replies. I do want to explore HF a little before starting and I was planning to buy my fuel in HF. But didn't know about the grocery store issue...thanks Slo. Do you think a warm weather bag with clothes layers is adequate in Maryland beginning in May? Looks like historically the lows in HF are mid 40's around the end of April.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singto View Post
    Thank you again for the kind replies. I do want to explore HF a little before starting and I was planning to buy my fuel in HF. But didn't know about the grocery store issue...thanks Slo. Do you think a warm weather bag with clothes layers is adequate in Maryland beginning in May? Looks like historically the lows in HF are mid 40's around the end of April.
    I did HF to VT two years ago (2016) starting on the kickoff weekend, which I think was about a week earlier then this year. It was quite warm for the first 7 or 10 days but then we had a good 2 weeks of chilly temps and steady drizzle in central PA. I was using a down bag which was rated at 30 degrees when it was new, but after 10 years of heavy use, it's more like a 40 degree bag now and it was a bit marginal. That was with a top and bottom base layer and a liner. I was quite envious of others in the shelter who had bags with twice the loft I had. If I had a NEW 30 degree bag, I probably would have been less envious of other peoples sleeping bags.

    But once the rain stopped it warmed up again and I was fine for the rest of the hike. I wasn't real comfortable for much of those two rainy weeks, but I lived.

    The problem is, if you get into a rainy spell (which often happens in April/May and sometimes into June like last year) even if you can keep everything from getting dripping wet, everything will still get damp. Dampness in the air and in your clothes makes it seem a lot colder then the air temp might imply. Typically the rainy spells don't last for more then a few days at a time, but sometimes a low gets stuck along the coast and wraps bands of rain over the Appalachians for a week or more.

    So, it boils down to how close to the edge of comfort do you want to cut it. If in doubt, err on the side of warmth, even if it kicks your pack weight up a little. It's easier to take things out later then to wish you had something while out in the woods.
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