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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsherry61 View Post
    Wayne, 3/4 of the world clean their back side with nothing but a cup of water. It really does work and work well. It is, however against the aesthetic that a lot of us North American types grew up with, so it takes a little practice. .......
    I am sure your backside gets nice and clean but I wonder just how well you can wash your hands afterward without contaminating everything you touch in the process. That is the part of your routine that gives me pause.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  2. #22
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    Cleaning with water is not only a practice, but also a philosophy.

    Our civilized life long we get educated that all germs and stink and everything down there is bad.
    Thats not true.

    You easily could stand your own feces as long as you are reasonably healthy. Whats probably going to "kill" you is other peoples and animals feces.
    Another point being the number of germs. Having cleaned yourself with water doesn't leave a dangerous amount of germs.
    A third point being, when cleaning yourself with water its highly recommended to use one hand (usually the left one) for cleaning exclusively, and restrict eating (and handshaking) to your right hand.
    If you obeye all of the above (and several other minor points I might have forgotten to mention) its safe and best LNT practice to clean yourself with water.

    The bigger part of worlds population, doing this, are no stupid idiots.
    Me, practicing the very same since decades when outdoors, am neither.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo L. View Post
    ......................You easily could stand your own feces as long as you are reasonably healthy. Whats probably going to "kill" you is other peoples and animals feces.
    Another point being the number of germs. Having cleaned yourself with water doesn't leave a dangerous amount of germs.
    A third point being, when cleaning yourself with water its highly recommended to use one hand (usually the left one) for cleaning exclusively, and restrict eating (and handshaking) to your right hand..............
    If what you say is true, why does it matter which hand you eat with?
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  4. #24
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    To make double, if not triple sure no harmful germ can (re-)enter your diagestive system.
    The same you would carry your gun (if ever you did) un-loaded and safety pin flipped, maybe even the ammu separate from the gun.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
    . . . I wonder just how well you can wash your hands afterward without contaminating everything you touch in the process. . .
    As I have suggested in these forums in the past, my well washed hands, following cleansing my back side with water, are probably far safer for cooking your food with than the hands of someone else that wipes with TP and assumes they didn't get any contamination and didn't wash their hands as thoroughly with soap. Not to mention, my back side is way cleaner and thus chaffing and monkey-butt are essentially eliminated.

    Reasons for using water in preference to TP:
    1) Significantly more LNT unless your carry out your TP
    2) Way more comfortable
    3) Way cleaner back side, so . . .
    -- Less stink
    -- Less backside chaffing, diaper rash, or whatnot
    4) Less to carry
    5) Less resupply needs

    Reason for using TP instead of water:
    1) Squeamishness that doesn't allow one to touch themselves or clean themselves adequately
    2) Tradition where there is nobody else to know whether you followed tradition or not

    And, if you actually really believe that TP contributes to improved hygiene relative to washing with water, I challenge you to find responsible studies to support your theory. If real, it shouldn't be hard to find given how important improving hygiene is in a lot of impoverished parts of the world most of which are populations that don't have the tradition of using TP.

    Should I go into conversations I've had with people from 1st world countries that wash with water and can't understand how us Americans can be so crude and gross as to wipe our butts with dry paper? Have you ever tried to skip showering in exchange for wiping your body down with paper towels. I guess that way you wouldn't have to touch your stinky armpits. Really, water helps a lot in getting clean, especially when cleaning your butt.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  6. #26

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    Make sure you get your hand sanitizer out of your TP ziplock before you poop.

  7. #27
    Registered User tawa's Avatar
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    Don't disagree with your thinking. However, need to remind everyone that those cultures that wash their arse with hand and water instead of TP often times also eat with their hands instead of using utensils!!
    Huge reminder---you will need to use one hand for arse wiping and the other for eating!!
    Now go practice with your restroom visit and then immediately go and eat your lunch!! lol

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    Having been in one of them countries for the past 2 months, bathrooms are typically absolutely disgusting. The floors are soaking wet from their use of the Muslim shower. Foot track dirt mixed with water is mud. Mixed with God only knows what else.

    So yes just paper is a hell of a lot more hygienic. Maybe not for your arsehole but for everything else..

    And hey guess what it's not only you that eats with your hands, but if somebody likes you they get to feed you with their hands also. It's not that bad if they're like putting a piece of lamb in your mouth, but when it's rice with yogurt gravy on it..... Kind of messy. Also makes you hope their hands are clean and they don't have any communicable diseases.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 02-14-2018 at 14:27.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawa View Post
    Don't disagree with your thinking. However, need to remind everyone that those cultures that wash their arse with hand and water instead of TP often times also eat with their hands instead of using utensils!!. . .
    Let's not get too deep into cultural stereotypes here. Although, most countries that clean their butt with water do NOT eat with their hands, yes, some do. And, doing so is obviously not a problem in most cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Having been in one of them countries for the past 2 months, bathrooms are typically absolutely disgusting. . .
    So MuddyWaters, next are you going to generalize American hygiene to what you see while visiting the local bus station privy? That appears to be what you just did for whatever country you're in. Pull your racist head out of your back side!!

    For contrast, in Europe, the last country I was in that washes with water, I stayed in a nice and very clean hotel with a nice bidet that made cleaning up quite pleasant.

    For what it's worth, I challenge you to convince me or anyone else with a modicum of experience in Japan to suggest that we, in north American, are cleaner and/or more hygienic than the Japanese. Personally, I think the Japanese overdo it a bit. That being said, their toilet seats totally rock!!
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

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    Default packing out the tp

    Public bathrooms in developing countries is probably a whole different discussion.

    I am curious about the logistics of the back country bidet, as I've never done it. How do keep the dirty water from running down your legs into your socks and on your shorts while squatting?
    You can walk in another person's shoes, but only with your feet

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    Quote Originally Posted by devoidapop View Post
    Public bathrooms in developing countries is probably a whole different discussion.

    I am curious about the logistics of the back country bidet, as I've never done it. How do keep the dirty water from running down your legs into your socks and on your shorts while squatting?
    I would think that if your rear end is lower than your knees, that shouldn't happen.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsherry61 View Post
    Let's not get too deep into cultural stereotypes here. Although, most countries that clean their butt with water do NOT eat with their hands, yes, some do. And, doing so is obviously not a problem in most cases.


    So MuddyWaters, next are you going to generalize American hygiene to what you see while visiting the local bus station privy? That appears to be what you just did for whatever country you're in. Pull your racist head out of your back side!!

    For contrast, in Europe, the last country I was in that washes with water, I stayed in a nice and very clean hotel with a nice bidet that made cleaning up quite pleasant.

    !!
    When talking about rest of the world.....90% is dirt freaking poor.

    Your talking only about the top few percent.

    Im talking about the other 90% of ...the ...world.

    Nothing i said is racist. Google muslim shower you idiot, its a proper term.
    Clean? These people are very clean. They wash their feet , they wash their face. They live where water is precious, and they wash all the time. Hence...muslim shower its more than a bedet for your arsehole.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 02-14-2018 at 15:58.
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  14. #34
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    As usual at WhiteBlaze.
    Way too much thread wandering.
    Way Way too much information.
    Have fun Y’all!
    Wayne

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwschenk View Post
    That's why you hike with a friend.
    My sentiments exactly! Lmao!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by devoidapop View Post
    . . .How do keep the dirty water from running down your legs into your socks and on your shorts while squatting?
    1) Make sure you have a water bottle ready for your clean hand to use. Yes, it is best to designate a clean hand (usually your right hand) and a dirty hand (usually your left hand).

    2) Settle into the right squat. Spread your feet to slightly less than shoulder width. Lower your pants just to your knees, not lower. Then squat and you'll find that your but is lower than you knees and thus lower than anything except your shoes and ankles which are pretty easy to keep out of the way of things. This is the squat you want for deification or female urination anyway.

    3) After you're done doing your deed(s), you want to poor water down your crack(s) from either the front or the back. Some people poor water down the wrist and hand of their dirty hand, others poor it down their back crack from well above the anus or down the front. Whatever method works for you. If you tilt your butt backward, water tends to flow better down your back crack to your anus. If you tilt your butt forward, water tends to run down the front of your privates a little better. Getting this right isn't easy. It takes some practice. Practicing in your bathtub or shower is probably a good idea if you don't want to spend a bunch of time with your pants down around your knees, outside trying to figure out how to get comfortable with getting your water to flow to where you want it when you want it to. Some people find little 250 ml or 500 ml squirt bottles helpful as they can direct the flow a little more directly.

    A tip I got years ago suggested to make sure you are not wiping with your fingers and then trying to wash them off. Think of it like washing dishes in running water. You fingers scrub, but the water is doing the cleaning.

    As you gain practice and skill, you will probably find that anywhere from 100 ml to 750 ml will be required to do a good job depending on the "personality" of your "movement". If water is in short supply, you can probably get by in most cases with about 250 ml (1 cup).

    4) Once your butt is washed, some people dry off with a bandanna or TP, others just pull up their pants, letting their underwear wick away the moisture.

    5) Finally, wash your hands thoroughly with soap and water. Some people are hand sanitizer fans, but, if water is available, I think soap and water has been proven to be significantly more effective at cleaning and sanitizing than sanitizer.

    And, so long as you keep your water bottle above and away from your privates and you keep your clean hand as the only one touching your water bottle, you shouldn't need a special water bottle for cleaning unless you just like having a special squirt bottle. I actually find my Smart Water or cycling water bottles works very well for this.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  17. #37
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    This water washing stuff is just flat sub-optimal. The description in the post above is perfect proof. What a bunch of nonsense and over complication. What a mess!

    Not only is it just far too complicated it is unnecessary altogether.

    Once again. USE WET WIPES. It only takes 1 or 2 of them and they are easy to pack out.

    They will get you just as clean as water without the mess and need for all that procedure above.

    Save your water for drinking.

    Leave the soap out of the wilderness also.

    Jeeze!

  18. #38
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    Just to add some tiny details:

    3a) After having done the business, do a coarse wipe with whatever material is available, be it a roundish stone, a pinecone, a wad of moss or grass.

    5) Most often I'm finishing up the cleaning with a tiny drop of liquid soap, which automatically will leave the hand having done the cleaning job clean and non-smelly too
    Apply some cream afterwards and it will clean next time much easier.

    Plus, as usually the bathroom business happens close in time after breakfast and just once a day, at the very same occassion I'll clean my private parts with another drop of soap in the same run.
    Really enjoyable to be all clean and good smelling down there!

    When I'm low on water and still have to do the business, I'd skip the soap part.
    This might leave you a bit smelly.
    As being short on water usually happens in the desert, there are lots of strong smelling herbs around (Oregany being my favorit), and I occassionally grab a few leaves of one and rub it wetween the fingers.
    I also routinely pick a few leaves every now and then and stick it into the chest pocket of my shirt, giving me the smell of a wandering herbs witch rather than a stinky hiker.

    A few years back I equipped the bathroom in my house with a "Muslim shower", which the whole family really enjoys.
    None of the negative effects MW mentions above appear.
    Its a sad fact that very many people in the Muslim world (the Middle East that I know of) have zero sensibility for keeping (public) things clean.
    But that doesn't render the whole water-cleaning thing bad.

  19. #39
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    Dude---this is way too much information!! ha
    Why take something as simple as shetting in the woods and complicate it with third world country methods?
    So just Hike Your Own Hike---and shet your own shet!
    In the mean time I will keep walking and keep using toilet paper!



    Quote Originally Posted by nsherry61 View Post
    1) Make sure you have a water bottle ready for your clean hand to use. Yes, it is best to designate a clean hand (usually your right hand) and a dirty hand (usually your left hand).

    2) Settle into the right squat. Spread your feet to slightly less than shoulder width. Lower your pants just to your knees, not lower. Then squat and you'll find that your but is lower than you knees and thus lower than anything except your shoes and ankles which are pretty easy to keep out of the way of things. This is the squat you want for deification or female urination anyway.

    3) After you're done doing your deed(s), you want to poor water down your crack(s) from either the front or the back. Some people poor water down the wrist and hand of their dirty hand, others poor it down their back crack from well above the anus or down the front. Whatever method works for you. If you tilt your butt backward, water tends to flow better down your back crack to your anus. If you tilt your butt forward, water tends to run down the front of your privates a little better. Getting this right isn't easy. It takes some practice. Practicing in your bathtub or shower is probably a good idea if you don't want to spend a bunch of time with your pants down around your knees, outside trying to figure out how to get comfortable with getting your water to flow to where you want it when you want it to. Some people find little 250 ml or 500 ml squirt bottles helpful as they can direct the flow a little more directly.

    A tip I got years ago suggested to make sure you are not wiping with your fingers and then trying to wash them off. Think of it like washing dishes in running water. You fingers scrub, but the water is doing the cleaning.

    As you gain practice and skill, you will probably find that anywhere from 100 ml to 750 ml will be required to do a good job depending on the "personality" of your "movement". If water is in short supply, you can probably get by in most cases with about 250 ml (1 cup).

    4) Once your butt is washed, some people dry off with a bandanna or TP, others just pull up their pants, letting their underwear wick away the moisture.

    5) Finally, wash your hands thoroughly with soap and water. Some people are hand sanitizer fans, but, if water is available, I think soap and water has been proven to be significantly more effective at cleaning and sanitizing than sanitizer.

    And, so long as you keep your water bottle above and away from your privates and you keep your clean hand as the only one touching your water bottle, you shouldn't need a special water bottle for cleaning unless you just like having a special squirt bottle. I actually find my Smart Water or cycling water bottles works very well for this.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawa View Post
    . . . So just Hike Your Own Hike---and shet your own shet! . . .
    Now that is a great quote!

    AND, we're NOT talking about 3rd world methods. I am baffled at the naivety in these forums when it comes to this topic. We're talking about alternative methods commonly used in 1st world countries outside of north America because they work very well and are very simple (in spite of my overly complicated description).
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

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