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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    You can still return for a full year if not 100% satisfied for any reason. That is extremely generous.
    It would be if it were wholly true. It's not entirely true; there are exceptions. From the page I linked in a the first post, LLB says (emphasis mine):

    To protect all our customers and make sure that we handle every return or exchange with reasonable fairness, we cannot accept a return or exchange (even within one year of purchase) in certain situations, including:


    • Products damaged by misuse, abuse, improper care or negligence, or accidents (including pet damage)
    • Products showing excessive wear and tear
    • Products lost or damaged due to fire, flood, or natural disaster
    • Products with a missing label or label that has been defaced
    • Products returned for personal reasons unrelated to product performance or satisfaction
    • Products that have been soiled or contaminated, until they have been properly cleaned
    • Returns on ammunition either in our stores or through the mail
    • On rare occasions, past habitual abuse of our Return Policy

  2. #22

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    Pure speculation but I wouldn't be surprised if llbean's mail-order segments have been decreasing with time due to increasing competition from other internet Sellers and Amazon. Back in the 1980s they were one of the only games in town. My parents ordered a lot of things from L.L.Bean. that generation is dying off.

    Today I don't even consider them they're not even a blip on the radar unless I wanted that unconditional guarantee. The reason is their prices are normally higher than prices that can be obtained elsewhere. The good thing is it now and then they do have a 20% off or something like that that gives a decent price.

    My experience with llbean's own products, are that they are usually very well-made but often seriously lacking in design. They usually aren't my first consideration. I'm still using an LL Bean gym bag that's about 20 years old though and is good shape.

    .
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 02-10-2018 at 05:57.

  3. #23
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    It's a good change. Excessively liberal return policies that facilitate fraud are not free but paid for by honest customers.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Time Zone View Post
    I suspect they feel they may be better off in the long run losing a certain segment of the business.
    The old business adage "there is no such thing as a bad customer" is no longer true in today's environment. I once had a customer who accounted for less than 1% of my annual sales but over 20% of my total returns. Not only was I losing money but he was tying up too much of the company's resources. One of the best decisions I ever made was getting rid of that account.
    The changes in their return policy will not affect the average customer.

  5. #25

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    The issue they should have addressed a long time ago was fraud; people with no connection to an item with an LL Bean tag, returning to game the system. We have a lot of these fraudsters from the top of the system to the bottom; they take advantage of the good nature of businesses that want to be reasonable and helpful. No business should subsidize irresponsible people who go to Goodwill, etc. getting LL Bean items seeking whopping gift cards after they sent the items in. Liars should never prosper, but with the LL Bean "guarantee" they were.

    I had seen them for a long time look for a sales record on the few returns I did in the last few years. And the last time I returned their defective Merino socks, they gave me $10 as a store credit for $17 socks that were much inferior to the prior set. Someone was praising the Cresta Hiker boots, I tried a pair, their soles failed in less than 100 miles on the AT. They make a lot of money with their expensive stuff, maybe they need to cut back their lavish accommodations at their mall stores? Too many employees too. The brick and mortar business model for high retail is high risk.


  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    Glad I got what I need before the change. They held out awhile before following REI.
    Wayne
    Their revised policy makes no mention of grandfathering prior purchases. You may have a civil case for a retroactive change in return policy, but the costs of pursuing it are probably not worth it.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore View Post
    Their revised policy makes no mention of grandfathering prior purchases. You may have a civil case for a retroactive change in return policy, but the costs of pursuing it are probably not worth it.
    True, but I strongly doubt it would be necessary - I think they'll honor stuff bought under the old system - they may require a receipt (IMO they always should have!), an explanation, and have the customer pay to ship back, but that won't affect the honest customer. If they didn't, it's not the civil court case they need worry about, but the court of public opinion.

  8. #28
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    Seeing or hearing of all the abuse of the super liberal return policies (even the 1 year policies) of the various outfitters, I am not surprised LL Bean cut theirs back to something more reasonable. Lifetime warranty on things that are supposed to wear over time... I don't understand.
    ...auto parts? Okay, they gamble you'll lose your receipt or sell your car before the part wears out - but clothing or gear?

    As a self employed / small business owner, I feel guilty taking advantage of these policies. Twenty dollars for a pair of socks that has lasted me four years and counting??? I think I'll just buy another pair when they actually wear out.

  9. #29
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    I always think of posts that appear from time to time of someone recommending Darn Tough socks because you can return them after a five month thru hike (!!!) for a replacement, and keep doing that forever over multiple thru hikes. It's a ludicrous way to behave. The small minority ruins policies that can be helpful sometimes to the rest of us, but that's just the way it is.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    I always think of posts that appear from time to time of someone recommending Darn Tough socks because you can return them after a five month thru hike (!!!) for a replacement, and keep doing that forever over multiple thru hikes. It's a ludicrous way to behave. The small minority ruins policies that can be helpful sometimes to the rest of us, but that's just the way it is.
    Darn Tough has a ludicrous policy. They depend on the vast majority of their buyers not using it. So, for that matter, did LL Bean and REI.

    DT makes some nice socks, though.
    "It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss

  11. #31
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    Darn tough socks are not all that tough. just about every day during thru-hiker season a hiker comes into our stores with holy socks wantin' replacements. they have to send them by mail to the company. i personally think the socks suck

  12. #32
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    I wasn't impressed with the one pair of darn tough socks I purchased a few years ago. I got a blister and I never get blisters with smart wool. But I didn't return it, maybe I should have.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheyou View Post
    The change will have no effect on me . I bet I can decide in a year if it is ok or not !

    Thom
    Yeah, kinda my thought too. Doesn't affect me.....I would never fathom a thought of returning something heavily used especially that wasn't defective in some way....or as folks mentioned here something that I didn't even buy. IN fact I would never have even had an idea of the possibility till i read it here!

    I just look at stores that advertise such policies as being customer service oriented....& I appreciate that.

    I recently returned a sleeping pad to REI that I didn't like, almost a year out. It wasn't until reading about their return policy here in other threads that I would have even thought of it. I still almost didn't, and feel a bit weird about it being almost a year. I justified by the fact that I only slept on the pad once, with clothes so it was still clean...and inflated a few other times at home to try it out, using an inflator bag. Otherwise stored it loosely and properly. I just couldn't like the thing, figured it's still in perfectly good garage sale condition, and that's why they offer the policy. Traded in for a different type of pad.

  14. #34
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    I was just checking out some new to me youtube channels. A guy currently hiking the AT showing his gear.
    https://youtu.be/4MSlXmQW5bw
    I just had to come back to this thread and post.... He Had a whole pile of packs, some still with the tags hanging on them, couple brand new Ospreys. A couple Zpacks models, and others.... I could be misinterpreting what he said, but lead me to believe that he planned to use the largest pack starting out Jan 1 as his winter pack....and then as he progresses loosing gear as the weather warms up, he's switch to progressively smaller and smaller packs...returning them to REI as he goes for refund. Unnecessary I think, but still and interesting concept, right up to the point of returning a used pack

    Man o man, I just don't think that's the intention of that policy...... that just doesn't seem right to me.

  15. #35

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    You guys wouldn't even believe how many people trade in heavily worn slippers every year or two. Too cheap to pay for new slippers. I will have some more L.L. Bean info to post on here in a month or two.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by blw2 View Post
    He Had a whole pile of packs, some still with the tags hanging on them, couple brand new Ospreys. A couple Zpacks models, and others.... I could be misinterpreting what he said, but lead me to believe that he planned to use the largest pack starting out Jan 1 as his winter pack....and then as he progresses loosing gear as the weather warms up, he's switch to progressively smaller and smaller packs...returning them to REI as he goes for refund. Unnecessary I think, but still and interesting concept, right up to the point of returning a used pack
    Man o man, I just don't think that's the intention of that policy...... that just doesn't seem right to me.
    Doesn't surprise me. It's just messed up. Especially to do this to small manufacturers like zPacks which has a good return policy (which I've used) for merchandise that hasn't been used on trail.

  17. #37

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    People used to buy Craftsman tools used at garage sales and return them for new tools. They could be 50 years old and Sears would give you a brand new version. could be broken and Sears will give you a brand new version.

    That created outstanding brand loyalty from many many years to Sears and Craftsman. It's why Craftsman is actually one of the most valuable parts of Sears assets today.

    The number of people that abused these kind of policies is low. It's factors into pricing . Companies don't start deleting these kind of programs that generate loyalty until.... They have to.... For financial reasons.

  18. #38

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    Surely you saw the news story: Woman returns 'dead' Christmas tree to Costco in January.

    This kind of behavior saddens me.

    https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timei...christmas-tree


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  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    People used to buy Craftsman tools used at garage sales and return them for new tools. They could be 50 years old and Sears would give you a brand new version. could be broken and Sears will give you a brand new version.

    That created outstanding brand loyalty from many many years to Sears and Craftsman. It's why Craftsman is actually one of the most valuable parts of Sears assets today.

    The number of people that abused these kind of policies is low. It's factors into pricing . Companies don't start deleting these kind of programs that generate loyalty until.... They have to.... For financial reasons.
    Sears sold the Craftsman line a few years ago.

  20. #40
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    They could change the policy to their brand only and require warranty registration.

    But instead they go all out and ruin what set them apart frommajority of the brands. They are overconfident about their brand. Why would any straight thinking outdoor shopper buy their chinese crap? You can buy patagonia (especially when on sale) and get better quality and a better warranty


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