Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 41
  1. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    12-28-2015
    Location
    Bad Ischl, Austria
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleRock View Post
    I completely disagree with this statement. The bladder I carry weighs 2 oz, it holds 3L of water. It allows me to drink water regularly without stopping. It changes shape so it always fits in well with the other contents of my pack. And I've found that with practice I can mentally keep track of how much I've consumed to within a few oz.

    With water bottles, I didn't have anywhere to put them on the outside of my pack where I could reach them, so I'd have to stop and take off my pack every time I wanted a drink. And I'd try not to do that often, so I'd be very thirsty and gulp down 1/2 L of water every time I stopped. That's not a good strategy for avoiding dehydration.

    Nowadays, I only carry ONE 1L bottle, which I mostly use for scooping from water sources.
    I have a small drinking bottle (0.4lt) attatched to the shoulder strap, and all the other bottles rest inside the pack, maybe if I had to carry 6 or more bottles (1.5lt each) I would strap two of them by the side straps to the outside of the pack.
    That makes for a heavy pack and I have to take a short rest every hour or so anyway, where I take off the pack and can refill the small drinking bottle, if needed.
    But usually I let myself drop into (slight) dehydration during hiking, I'm not a fan of sipping every few minutes.
    Usually I measure my hydration state by the number of bathroom breaks, and the amount and color of pee. There is not much sense in drinking more than absolutely essential, just to drain it out an hour later.
    I would camel up at the next supply point.

  2. #22
    Registered User HeartFire's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-06-2005
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Age
    62
    Posts
    925
    Images
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AllDownhillFromHere View Post
    Everyone hikes dehydrated. .
    The problem with this statement is the definition of 'dehydrated' - or lets start with the definition of fully hydrated. (How do you define it). With human physiology, every breath you let out, you exhale fluid in the form of vapor, so unless you are on an IV drip replacing the fluid at the same rate you are expelling it, your fluid balance will shift. People are way overly concerned with the bullsh-t of having to drink 8 cups of water a day. I am not dismissing the issue of being dehydrated while hiking in the desert. That is a potentially serious, life threatening situation. I just take issue with the 'everyone is dehydrated' statement. Fluid intake is very individual, if the spit in your mouth is watery - you're fine, if it's sticky/tacky/thick, you need more water.

  3. #23

    Join Date
    05-05-2011
    Location
    state of confusion
    Posts
    9,869
    Journal Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartFire View Post
    The problem with this statement is the definition of 'dehydrated' - or lets start with the definition of fully hydrated. (How do you define it). With human physiology, every breath you let out, you exhale fluid in the form of vapor, so unless you are on an IV drip replacing the fluid at the same rate you are expelling it, your fluid balance will shift. People are way overly concerned with the bullsh-t of having to drink 8 cups of water a day. I am not dismissing the issue of being dehydrated while hiking in the desert. That is a potentially serious, life threatening situation. I just take issue with the 'everyone is dehydrated' statement. Fluid intake is very individual, if the spit in your mouth is watery - you're fine, if it's sticky/tacky/thick, you need more water.
    My own definition is when i drink 2 L with dinner, and only pee out 1/2 of a quart ziplock overnight. No doubt my body was down almost 2L fluid.

    But i agree, everyone is dehydrated, to some extent, some of time. A few times Ive become ......befuddled. when I started questioning the map.....i know im too dehydrated. I learnt to recognize this.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 12-22-2018 at 10:53.

  4. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    12-28-2015
    Location
    Bad Ischl, Austria
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,127

    Default

    Long before the common sense shifted to "drink 8 cups a day " (or, "drink two bottles a day", as it's advertised here) the word dehydrated was unknown, and few people died by thirst.
    It was this area whe I first hit the Middle East desert in the middle of summer. We've travelled through Israel and Egyp by motorbike.
    Travelling through the Negev, Dead Sea basin and Sinai in end of July I was almost dying of thirst. I gulped down water in huge amounts.
    A month later beginning of August, I was travelling the same route back. I took some tiny sips here and there and cameled up in the evening, that was all I needed.

    What I want to say: Its all very relative. And the biggest part is in the brain.
    Companies take huge advantage by telling you, you need to stay hydrated all the time. People belive it, and in the touristic place where I'm living I see people walking by daily on the famous local hike of 1.5hr, every single one carrying a bottle of water, hiking along a creek full of crystal clear drinking water, past several springs, start and end of the hike within town full of Cafes and Restaurants.

    So yes, you can die of thirst in the desert.
    But I'm with HeartFire here, that people are way overly concerned with this bullsh.t advertisments to stay hydrated.
    Just use some common sense.
    If I'd pee half a liter over night, I'd state myself over-hydrated.

  5. #25

    Join Date
    05-05-2011
    Location
    state of confusion
    Posts
    9,869
    Journal Entries
    1

    Default

    Most dont have problem with moderate to severe dehydration. At least not acutely.

    But some do. Recommendations are based on these people, weakest links. Ive seen older people pass out and be hospitalized in conditions that dont faze most.

    My daughter, however, had kidney stone issues in college while playing softball, for two seasons, from not drinking enough . Cost me a few thousand $.

    The hydration police have gotten so out of hand, they tell you now to start hydrating days before a hot event. Seriously. To start drinking on wednesday for a saturday event or kids 1 hr ball game. Its laughable.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 12-22-2018 at 12:36.

  6. #26
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-28-2007
    Location
    Georgia and Hawaii
    Posts
    17,769

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartFire View Post
    ...Fluid intake is very individual, if the spit in your mouth is watery - you're fine, if it's sticky/tacky/thick, you need more water.

    Sensing the amount or condition of one's saliva can be problematic in determining hydration should it be used as the sole determiner if one needs to drink or if one is sufficiently hydrated. One of the reasons why Seniors are more at risk for dehydration is as we age we produce less saliva, dehydrated or not. One rather common side effect of some prescription drugs is dry mouth, whether dehydrated or not. Many, if not most U.S. Seniors are on at least one prescription drug. Combined with other factors is why Seniors are very often dehydrated. It has become a concern for assisted living facilities and those in the medical community. Very often when Seniors go to the hospital they are put on intravenous solutions, at least in part, because this group in the U.S. very often is dehydrated. There are some RN's and others in the healthcare industry that post on WB. Maybe they can confirm or add to this?

    Dry mouth side effects caused by healthcare decisions, like routinely taking prescription drugs, are often addressed by cascading another 'drug' like artificial saliva solutions or immediate healthcare approaches like isotonic IV solutions. Saliva is important. It affects digestion and dental and whole mouth health. You don't want to wait until dry mouth occurs to hydrate if you're concerned with proactively preventing it.

    There are many interconnected and cause and effect situations that occur that don't always get addressed or acknowledged in hydration/dehydration. It leads to more folks more often being dehydrated, hence one of, if not the main reason why were advised to stay hydrated. It's not just those saying so seeking to sell more water.


    One reason why so many have so many issues regulating their temp and with joints and with cognitive processes is dehydration. It's fairly important to everyone but perhaps additionally so for an athlete or those taking on endurance activities like backpackers on longer duration or strenuous hikes.

  7. #27
    Registered User Hikes in Rain's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-14-2005
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Age
    65
    Posts
    2,156
    Images
    23

    Default

    My contacts are a barometer for dehydration for me. If I forget I'm wearing them (easy to do since I wear them all the time), I'm good on fluids. If my eyes feel dry and scratchy, I need water. Works for me, but for others, YMMV.

  8. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-28-2007
    Location
    Georgia and Hawaii
    Posts
    17,769

    Default

    And, the cascade continues.

    Gear apparel companies are misleading everyone about their products. I wasn't comfortable in those layers. I overheated. I had a hard time thermoregulating. It's the gear's fault. It's always the gear's fault.

    I routinely require pain relievers for muscle and joint pain. Gimme more Vitamin I. It must be my genetic predispositions. Damn family tree. Misplaced unscientific genetic pre determinism at work?

    The pain and deterioration must be all due to my work environment and playing a sport in HS or the climate where I reside. I need knee braces as a result.

    Trekking poles are required? Not going there.

    Doctors appt visits and surgery ensue.

    MORE drugs. MORE prescriptions. MORE paid for healthcare goods and services. MORE sit down motorized shopping carts. MORE chair and stair lifts. MORE pain. MORE mental fog.

    How about MORE clean fresh water?

  9. #29
    Registered User
    Join Date
    12-28-2015
    Location
    Bad Ischl, Austria
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,127

    Default

    Appreciate you attitude, DW.

  10. #30

    Default

    The secret to desert hiking, do it when it isn't so hot. Be conservative and carry more water than you think you need as the next water source may not be available unless you have recent reliable reports that says otherwise. But injuries do happen which can slow you down, so it's always best to have a little margin. As a SoCal native, in the hotter months, such as part of the PCT thru-hiker season (as this is the PCT section of the forum), if it's really hot, I find shade and wait out the heat of the day, napping to catch up on some of the sleep I lost getting up so early. You do need less water doing that. Get on trail in the morning as soon as it's light enough to see and do your fastest miles of the day while it's cool and your body isn't fighting to cool itself off. I sometimes do hike into the night 2 or 3 hours or do so in the morning hours if I have a goal to reach before the heat of the day hits; say a water source or a good shady place. With a little moonlight and a decently defined trail (which the PCT normally is), you often don't need to hike with a light in the dark as the trail can really stand out helped by the light color ground reflecting the available light pretty good. The lack of forest to block out the moonlight makes a difference. When you hit the Sierra Nevada and get above treeline, nighthiking without a light can also be interesting as all the light colored granite really reflects the star/moonlight and gives the mountain views a different feel.

    I just got back from a 38 mile 2 day hike this past weekend in Joshua Tree NP where despite carrying 4 quarts each day, I drank 3 of it and was peeing clear regularly. The advantages of desert hiking in the cooler months where temperature only gets up to about 70F. The near full moon was so bright, I could have done all my hiking at night without needing a light though only did so for 2 hours the first night because it was dark at 5pm and I had nothing else to do once in camp.

    As for dehydration, I remember reading an article where if you are even a little dehyrdated you lose 20% of your body's preformance. Probably paid for by a bottle water company, but I do think trying to avoid it is wise. For me, if I can't remember the last time I pee'd or it's coming out a dark color, then that is a very good indication that I'm dehydrated and need to drink more.

  11. #31
    Registered User
    Join Date
    11-15-2016
    Location
    Sierra Madre, California
    Posts
    274

    Default

    One other point, you are never far from a water faucet anywhere on the PCT. When you are in the "desert" at night you'll see dusk to dawn lights literally all over.

  12. #32

    Default

    Not true. That only applies to some parts of SoCal desert. Other parts you are a long way away from anything; especially the part between Tehachapi/Mojave and Kennedy Meadows. Even if you see a light in the far off distance, there may not be easy access to it from where you are and at night, those lights can be much farther off than you imagine; often the next water source is closer.

  13. #33

    Join Date
    05-05-2011
    Location
    state of confusion
    Posts
    9,869
    Journal Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miner View Post
    Not true. That only applies to some parts of SoCal desert. Other parts you are a long way away from anything; especially the part between Tehachapi/Mojave and Kennedy Meadows. Even if you see a light in the far off distance, there may not be easy access to it from where you are and at night, those lights can be much farther off than you imagine; often the next water source is closer.
    You can see lights of a city at night......50 miles away.
    On a straight road i recall seeing a red stoplight ahead once, it was 4+ miles

    I wouldnt trust distance judgement at night

  14. #34

    Default

    I think it was in the boy scouts a looonnnnng time ago where I learned a valuable lesson about hydration (might have been from my first thru-hike back in '77, I don't remember exactly )
    "Pee clear twice a day"
    I've always remembered it.
    Don't let your fears stand in the way of your dreams

  15. #35
    Registered User
    Join Date
    11-15-2016
    Location
    Sierra Madre, California
    Posts
    274

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    You can see lights of a city at night......50 miles away.
    On a straight road i recall seeing a red stoplight ahead once, it was 4+ miles

    I wouldnt trust distance judgement at night
    My point is that the PCT ain't Lawrence of Arabia. Those houses down in Kelso Valley are not so far away that you are in any real danger.

    edit: Nevertheless, I started out each day with a 5 liter carry through Section F.
    Last edited by gwschenk; 01-02-2019 at 12:43.

  16. #36
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-28-2007
    Location
    Georgia and Hawaii
    Posts
    17,769

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gwschenk View Post
    My point is that the PCT ain't Lawrence of Arabia. Those houses down in Kelso Valley are not so far away that you are in any real danger.

    edit: Nevertheless, I started out each day with a 5 liter carry through Section F.

    You're proving my pt. There are many interconnected and cause and effect situations that occur that don't always get addressed or acknowledged in hydration/dehydration. Distance to water is but one aspect of dehydration risk/danger. On the PCT in SCal at water locations whether caches or naturally occurring many times there is at least one hiker suffering from acute dehydration.

  17. #37
    Registered User
    Join Date
    11-15-2016
    Location
    Sierra Madre, California
    Posts
    274

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    You're proving my pt. There are many interconnected and cause and effect situations that occur that don't always get addressed or acknowledged in hydration/dehydration. Distance to water is but one aspect of dehydration risk/danger. On the PCT in SCal at water locations whether caches or naturally occurring many times there is at least one hiker suffering from acute dehydration.
    What you say is true, but it's not because of lack of water, but lack of knowledge on the part of the hiker. So it goes. We've all been stupid at some point.

    The Third Gate and Scissors caches, for instance, are a convenience, not a necessity.

  18. #38

    Default

    You are barely ever actually in the actual desert in So Cal. You are barely ever in 100+ degree weather. That would be highly unusual if you hike in the normal NOBO or SOBO times of the year (spring/fall). It's usually quite cold in So Cal in the spring. And this particular year has been very cold and rainy. Very strange. The sun is hot, the shade is cool and most of the time it's actually cold enough in the shade to put on a puffy, even in mid-day when it's otherwise hot out in the sun. Don't assume everybody is staggering around dehydrated in the desert going "water, water" and surrounded by nothing but sand and cactus. That's not how it is at all. You go up and down into high mountain "sky islands" where there are pines and cedars after you move through various layers of biological zones. The water is far apart on the trail, but I can do it without water caches in a normal or below normal rain year carrying no more than 4 liters at any time, usually only needing to carry 2 or 3 liters. If I can do that, and I'm a middle-aged lady, then you can do it. And you'll never have to drink your pee or do anything nuts.

    This year I did a section hike and there is so much water it was almost annoying because I would rely on certain reliable water, load up my pack and then find there were 9 other water sources that aren't listed on any reports. It's almost better to have a normal dry year than all this water everywhere.

    Also, understand that because So Cal is so variable, it's actually one of the best sections of the PCT. You get so much of everything, from the big trees and high mountains to the cactus gardens of the desert, to the oak woodlands near Warner Springs, and so many wildflowers in the spring. So Cal is a great section for section hiking, too, because you can do it in spring or fall. Other places you have to wait for summer. And there are very few bugs to bother you.
    Some knew me as Piper, others as just Diane.
    I hiked the PCT: Mexico to Mt. Shasta, 2008. Santa Barbara to Canada, 2009.

  19. #39
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-28-2007
    Location
    Georgia and Hawaii
    Posts
    17,769

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gwschenk View Post
    What you say is true, but it's not because of lack of water, but lack of knowledge on the part of the hiker. So it goes. We've all been stupid at some point.

    The Third Gate and Scissors caches, for instance, are a convenience, not a necessity.

    Well said. It's knowledge and wisdom we lack that causes problems not necessarily lack of water.

  20. #40
    Registered User
    Join Date
    11-15-2016
    Location
    Sierra Madre, California
    Posts
    274

    Default

    BTW, Hi, Piper. Your contributions to the PCT-List are missed.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •