Hand held GPS vs Cell Phones

[TX Aggie]

Do your math before you commit to a plan. The monthly plans for inReach are anywhere from 25% to 40% higher on a monthly basis than the annual plans. The monthly plans also incur a $25 annual fee, so add $2/month when comparing on a monthly basis. Choose a plan, dial in on how many months per year you'll be using it, and figure the effective monthly cost. A very quick calculation shows the annual plan becomes a better deal (e.g., lower monthly cost) on the "Safety" plan at 9 months of use, about 8 months for the "Recreation" plan, 9 months on the "Expedition" plan, and about 9 months on the "Extreme" plan. The monthly plans sound great but really only represent a significant savings for someone who is only out sa few months in a year - which hardly seems to be the target demographic for devices like the inReach and SPOT.

I think the occasional hiker is the one who most likely needs a device like this.


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[Offshore]

I think the occasional hiker is the one who most likely needs a device like this.
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I highly doubt that they even know these devices exist.

[ldsailor]

Whoever said that the SPOT subscription is $169 is at least two years out of date.
As of 2018 it's $199.95.

That was me. I actually paid less than $169 in October 2017, which is just five months ago. Below is the line item charge from my credit card.

GUS*SPOT MESSENGER 866-651-7768 CA $164.98

And the below image is from the Spot billing history page on my profile.

Spot Billing.JPG

My service is basic so maybe you have an enhanced package, but they don't seem to have increased their prices to the level you suggest for the basic service.

[TX Aggie]

I highly doubt that they even know these devices exist.

I’m one of them. I make it out maybe 4 times a year.

[Venchka]

I’m one of them. I make it out maybe 4 times a year.

Same here. Maybe not that often.
I voted with my dollars in favor of an ACR PLB based on research going back to the EPIRB units.
Wayne

[TX Aggie]

Same here. Maybe not that often.
I voted with my dollars in favor of an ACR PLB based on research going back to the EPIRB units.
Wayne

I used to be one of the guys carrying a PLB antenna looking for downed pilots. Which is why I’m not a fan.

You’re dependent on the skill of the operator carrying the locating antenna. With a GPS plot, they have your location.

I do think they are a good device, just as with anything they have their limitations.


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[middle to middle]

correct me if i'm wrong, but a gps uses navigational satellite fixes to determine lat and lon whereas a cell phone uses cell tower fix information to determine that. If true, then a cell phone will not work as a navigational aide if no cell towers or too few are in range.

verry good !

[colorado_rob]

verry good !

Not sure what you mean by "very good", but hillwalkers statement is just plain not true, already discussed below. Cell phones, at least every one I've had in the last 8 years or so have their own built in GPS receiver, and they are very accurate. Someone suggested that cell towers might improve cell phone GPS accuracy, but I don't see how that is relevant, as cell phones even without service are damn accurate as GPS devices. Every bit as accurate for staying on a route or making a track of a route, as my stand-alone Garmin 20-something.

[Venchka]

I used to be one of the guys carrying a PLB antenna looking for downed pilots. Which is why I’m not a fan.

You’re dependent on the skill of the operator carrying the locating antenna. With a GPS plot, they have your location.

I do think they are a good device, just as with anything they have their limitations.


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You say that as if contemporary PLBs don’t have global GPS capability.
What am I missing?
Wayne

[TX Aggie]

You say that as if contemporary PLBs don’t have global GPS capability.
What am I missing?
Wayne

I’ve heard some of them do, I haven’t researched them in great detail to be perfectly honest, but what I have read leaves a lot to be desired, just for what I want.

If the unit is a couple of year old, you’re hoping the signal is strong enough to ping one of the satellites. If it doesn’t have the GPS in it, you’re stuck with the ELT band. Again, in capable hands and good terrain, a team will find you in short order. But in canyons and in certain rock formations, the signal can bounce and lead the search team miles in the wrong direction.

I admit, the technology may be better now, but considering two months ago a hard landing set off an ELP on a private aircraft 12 miles from me (across the Cheaapeak Bay, not exactly a lot of interference between us) and the signal brought even the state police helicopter right behind my house, I’m not entirely confident in the system. Again, this is from someone who was on and worked the locator antenna on multiple Aircraft SAR missions in West Texas.

I’m not trying to talk you out of it, just explaining why I personally prefer the SPOT or InReach.

[Venchka]

This is what I own.
https://www.acrartex.com/products/ca....cNXlQYKN.dpbs
Wayne

[TX Aggie]

This is what I own.
https://www.acrartex.com/products/ca....cNXlQYKN.dpbs
Wayne

Cool, you’re the second person I’ve heard using this model. My biggest issue is the battery exchange, but maybe I’ll keep this on my list as well and look into it a little more.

[Venchka]

Battery exchange: $150 currently.
Compared to 5 years of subscriptions?
At the rate technologies evolve, it may be advantageous to buy a new unit at the end of the 5 years.
Bottom line: If I never need to use it I’ll be happy.
Wayne

[Offshore]

I’m one of them. I make it out maybe 4 times a year.

If you go out that rarely, the neither the SPOT ($150 hardware [but have shown up as sometimes free after rebate], $199/yr service) nor the inReach ($399 or $459 hardware, "Safety" plan at $20 activation, $25 Freedom plan annual fee, $15/month service) make sense when you consider the up front hardware costs and ongoing subscriptions. Just use you cell phone. If you have no service in those areas, see if there is another carrier that may have better coverage. If that's not an option and you really are going to be on poorly-travelled trails, then consider either renting a unit for the trip or going with a PLB. PLBs run around $270 and have no monthly fee. Their batteries have expiration dates (~5 years, but double check and make sure you buy fresh stock) and they do need to be sent in to a service center for battery replacement (I've seen costs of $150 - $170)

[TX Aggie]

If you go out that rarely, the neither the SPOT ($150 hardware [but have shown up as sometimes free after rebate], $199/yr service) nor the inReach ($399 or $459 hardware, "Safety" plan at $20 activation, $25 Freedom plan annual fee, $15/month service) make sense when you consider the up front hardware costs and ongoing subscriptions. Just use you cell phone. If you have no service in those areas, see if there is another carrier that may have better coverage. If that's not an option and you really are going to be on poorly-travelled trails, then consider either renting a unit for the trip or going with a PLB. PLBs run around $270 and have no monthly fee. Their batteries have expiration dates (~5 years, but double check and make sure you buy fresh stock) and they do need to be sent in to a service center for battery replacement (I've seen costs of $150 - $170)

Because I want the ability to check in with family. None of the PLB’s do that.

And if I’m going to carry a brick anyhow, I’d like it to have more ability than just send out a distress signal. Both SPOT and InReach will provide tracks (yes, I know my cell will do that too and that’s what I’m currently using)

Plus, I’m trying to get out more often anyhow.


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[colorado_rob]

Because I want the ability to check in with family. None of the PLB’s do that.

And if I’m going to carry a brick anyhow, I’d like it to have more ability than just send out a distress signal. Both SPOT and InReach will provide tracks (yes, I know my cell will do that too and that’s what I’m currently using)...

I agree on the "more than just a distress signal" thing. Sending a spot/whatever track position to friends and family is a blast on these long hikes; we carry a spot (I think, it's my wife's toy) on our longer mountain expeditions and our friends and family really like us doing this. Definitely worth it as an excellent supplement to a GPS/phone device.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Your numbers are correct although you're wrong as far as "a couple of years". The rates changed because they changed the plans within the last 9 months or so. There used to be basic service, unlimited tracking, and extreme tracking. Now the basic service include unlimited tracking, so whether you needed it or not, you got tracking. Looking at the new plan structure, the old basic + unlimited tracking plan renews as the new basic plan for pretty much the same amount. I also added the GEOS SAR benefit and they hit you with a maintenance fee. Still a lot cheaper than inReach if all you want is an emergency device, and you add in the relatively high cost of the inReach hardware. Thanks for the tip on the price being negotiable. I renew in April so it will be a good warmup negotiation for the annual SiriusXM haggle in May.

This is my Plan cut and pasted from findmespot.com
Services:

SPOT Basic Service
Unlimited Tracking
GEOS Search and Rescue Benefit

They jacked me up to $189 last year. I have never agreed to any "Upgrade" of Services since I got the SPOT Gen 3 in 2014.
It was going to be $200 + the S&R insurance this year. Please note that your account is set for "Autorenew" with no other option.
Don't like that !
Pretty sure it started out at about $150 + some extra for the GEOS S & R benefit.
I really only got the SPOT to notify my Wife and Daughter that I was still safe and alive each evening that I was hiking with the
added benefit of the sending an SOS signal if I fell and broke a leg etc. Don't need the Tracking. With the "I'm OK"
message it also includes a link to a map page that shows where I sent it from. So she knows I'm not in some Hotel
in Vegas spending our retirement money. :>)

Larry

[Offshore]

Because I want the ability to check in with family. None of the PLB’s do that.

And if I’m going to carry a brick anyhow, I’d like it to have more ability than just send out a distress signal. Both SPOT and InReach will provide tracks (yes, I know my cell will do that too and that’s what I’m currently using)

Plus, I’m trying to get out more often anyhow.


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A SPOT or inReach are hardly bricks, but I understand what you're saying. Both do tracks, the difference is in the messaging. SPOT gives you a couple of messages (a check in and non-emergency assistance needed) as well as the SOS that goes to the GEOS SAR team. The non-SOS messages content and recipients need to be set up on the website ahead of time. You also get no confirmation of a message being received. InReach gives you a lot more flexibility in non-emergency messaging as well as a confirmation of message received.

If this isn't enough to move you one way or another, I'd suggest a total cost of ownership analysis. Figure 4 to 5 years useful life of the hardware and then add the annual plan costs (we'll have to assume no plan increases over the time period for the sake of the analysis.) For the SPOT, it's just the annual fee times the number of years. The InReach gets a bit more complicated in that they offer annual or monthly plans. If you activate it for 8-9 months/year the annual plans have the edge. Do the cost analysis for your anticipated use (don't forget the $25/year charge for the Freedom option) and choose the lower of the two options, and compare it to the SPOT to do your cost/benefit analysis.

I've been using the SPOT for three years now and it's worked well based on the track logs I see. I don't really care about text messaging, so didn't want to bother with the InReach. I'd still go with the SPOT today as the InReach is still more than I need. I view my SPOT like my first aid kit. It's there doing its thing if I need it, but I generally don't bother with it other than to turn it on and off.

[Offshore]

This is my Plan cut and pasted from findmespot.com
Services:

SPOT Basic Service
Unlimited Tracking
GEOS Search and Rescue Benefit

They jacked me up to $189 last year. I have never agreed to any "Upgrade" of Services since I got the SPOT Gen 3 in 2014.
It was going to be $200 + the S&R insurance this year. Please note that your account is set for "Autorenew" with no other option.
Don't like that !
Pretty sure it started out at about $150 + some extra for the GEOS S & R benefit.
I really only got the SPOT to notify my Wife and Daughter that I was still safe and alive each evening that I was hiking with the
added benefit of the sending an SOS signal if I fell and broke a leg etc. Don't need the Tracking. With the "I'm OK"
message it also includes a link to a map page that shows where I sent it from. So she knows I'm not in some Hotel
in Vegas spending our retirement money. :>)

Larry

They went from three plans (basic, unlimited tracking, extreme tracking) to two (the old unlimited tracking - now the base, and extreme tracking). The SARS benefit is $18 and they have a network maintenance fee. People that had just the old base plan saw an increase (but got unlimited tracking whether they wanted it or not). People that had unlimited tracking are paying about the same for what is now the base. I think the reason they did this was simply because they could. Their only competition (besides the barest of the bones PLB devices) are the Garmin InReach devices that are 2 - 3x the hardware costs and significantly higher monthly service costs.

[BowGal]

I want to buy the Spot Gen3, but when I read the reviews, I wonder how good they are. Biggest complaints I read is the billing and customer service. Next, is messages or tracks dropped. I love to do my homework on every item. I usually take reviews with a grain of salt...thinking a lot of them are fake. Anyhow, here’s what I read:
From Amazon:
51% rate it five star and 24% rate it one star
From Cabela’s:
18 people rated it 5 star and 3 rated one star
REI:
28 rated five star and 31 rated it one star
Finally, in Canada we have a REI like chain called Mountain Equipment Co. (MEC)
6 rated it 5 star and 22 rated it one star.

So, I don’t know what to think. Sure, a majority tend to rate the Spot highly, but way more 1 star. Coming from someone who spends a ton on hunting and backpacking gear, I want to be totally comfortable with my purchase and that I’ll get good customer service if the product fails.