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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khike View Post
    I'm thinking either the Patagonia, 22 oz total or the Montbell, 21 oz total.
    Is the Patagonia truly 22 oz? Website says it's 12 oz. I thru-ed the AT with one and loved it. And Patagonia is great about repairs, and even has the buy back program if you're concerned about value/durability. I recently ordered a OR Helium II and am annoyed at the lack of pockets and pit zips...something I obviously knew was coming but thought I'd get over for the weight. I've since looked at the lightheart gear jacket and that looks very appealing. Not sure on durability.

  2. #22
    Khike
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    Yes, Nathan, I'm talking jacket and pants, together, when I mention wgt. You say your's held up well. I hear that a lot and I hear stories of different brands failing, rather quickly. But, I am taking what you said, under advisement. Thanks, kevin

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khike View Post
    Hey, Dogwood, What rain gear do you use, for the AT? Kevin
    I tend towards being a .5 oz weenie. Previously, I mostly went with a 6.2 oz Marmot Mica, not the Super Mica or older Marmot Essence. I was having repeated membrane issues in about every other new set so eventually moved away to something more durable and reliable. The wt and feature set hooked me. Marmot Customer Service was great to work with replacing three of the Micas. I currently like a 6.4 oz 2017 version XL Montbell Versalite for the venting features, pit zips, velcro adjustable wrist cuffs, two way chest zip,(wish it had mesh through hand pockets though, 3x) or discontinued Zpacks Challenger version w/ pit zips for warmer periods when I'm going fast and light generating heat but still don't want to backpack completely soaked. For myself, backpacking consistently soaked for long durations is problematic. It's not just myself either. It's not always consistently 75* w/ no wind or exposure when it's raining! In winter or when consistently under 50* or so I go with a OR Helium II(a $60 beater, third one) or if going off trail on largely AT based hikes a 11 0z Arcteryx. I have three Arcteryx jackets. Disclosure: I get Arcteryx products and sometimes Montbell at a discount but still pay for them.

    I tend to put in many varied miles annually although the last two yrs that has fallen off precipitously. As such I renew DWR's about every 12-18 months. I perceive maintaining gear as simply a part of my responsibility as a purchaser who hasn't yet hit on a Mega Millions ticket. I like spreading my use around to always have rain gear in very good functional condition. It's apiece I heavily rely since I'm often going so Ul occasionally SUL and kit integrated. It's not a piece that consistently stays unused in my pack most hrs of each day as can often be the situation for many others.
    When carrying rain pants I have an older but still in great condition 4.5 oz GoLite Tumalo(these are not the full leg zips heavier version), new 3.8 oz in XL Raidlight Ultra MP(good results so far), and some asst heavier winter wet abrasive enduring pants. I wish I had bought some MB Versalite pants at sub 4 oz before they closed out. Montane Minimus rain pants is a somewhat fair comparison with the Shield DS as were the GL Tumalo that were originally the same material before going to GL's proprietary Trinity Deluge WP tech. Again, I like spreading the use around and will also pre hike test for WPness and MVTR. Again, rain pants are not worn just when it's raining. When dry I sleep in them and will use them as wind pants.

    IMO, a rain poncho for the AT can be a viable alternative. I don't typically go that way because my shells are incorporated while on the move and in a sleep system as part of warmth retention and sometimes as pseudo VBL suit. I tend towards higher elev hikes sometimes almost entirely above tree line so greater exposure to cold and wind. For largely forested maintained wider tread ST very wet hikes like AT NOBO's a rain poncho can be great. FWIW, adequate thermoregulation(personal temp management) is not a skill we're all on equal footing in executing. Despite MVTR and breathability claims what I see as vastly more significant to thermoregulation is in proactive use of venting features in rain wear and secondly, appropriate layering. Rain ponchos remove some of the requiring of these awarenesses hence why IMHO adds to their popularity.

    Don't get something too baggy or bulky but not too tight either. Consider your anticipated under layering bulk and ease of movement. When I go to the outfitter I jump around, turn my upper half, jog inside the store, touch my toes, raise my knees, angel wing, extend upwards fully, put on a weighted pack, do inclines, etc doing all that I might on trail. Since WB is a big Frogg Toggs crowd unless FT rain wear has changed I've always felt the arms to short and chest and waist hem entirely too baggy for myself. All "rain wear" isn't cut or designed equally. Plus FT pills in high wear areas especially shoulders and hip belt areas which to me sometimes look like someone wearing apparel they rolled around on the ground in at the landfill or new from the dryer with a bunch of lint in tow. But if saving $ are a priority FT's get you on the trail. Performance isn't all that bad either considering the purchase price.

    If deciding on rain jackets and rain pants is for you you might consider these pts. BUT, it's your hike so think about YOUR anticipated needs, not necessarily making decisions based on why I do what I do or what others opt. Know thyself. Be a "free" thinker. You own it.

  4. #24

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    Current price on the Packa is $92.50. I don't recall the weight but it is not much.
    "It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khike View Post
    The Packa is interesting. Feral Bill, how much that Packa cost you?
    The 30d Packas are $100 shipped to US. I'll have some 15d Packas available soon.
    Cedar Tree

  6. #26
    Khike
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    Don't worry Dog, total free thinker. I hike above the treeline, a bit. I would never bring a Togg on the Grand Loop, Colorado Trail or Elbert or Massive. Different deal. But for a few miles on the AT and in the interest of a lighter pack, I'm gonna give it a shot. If I was headed to the treeline, I'd have a whole different set of gear and priorities. And a 100 bucks for a Packa, is sweet, CT. Appreciate everybody's input, as always, insightful. kevin

  7. #27

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    Right or wrong,here's my rain kit-Light Heart Gear polyurethane jacket,Anti Gravity Gear rain kilt(on sale or I would have gone with LHG),knee high waterproof gaiters from Cabellas,Montbell wind shirt.ULA pack cover.Seal Skinz gloves.Seal skinz socks with a light wool liner(they work).I really hate wet feet.I went with the knee highs.

    This system keeps me dry enough while hiking in about 48F day long drizzle but understand what everyone says about getting soaked in your own sweat is Absolutely True.The LHG being well vented may help keep you from getting overheated but,trust me,you will be soaked to the skin when you arrive camp;particularly the torso in my case as the rain kilt allows proper ventilation and cooling while preserving body heat.

    So once camp is made I switch into dry clothes which would include a fleece top,long johns,wind pants,wind shirt.
    If I need the LHG jacket I put it on over the windshirt to keep the fleece from picking up moisture off the inside of the rain jacket.My goal is to always have the puffy jacket in the hammock with the quilts,high and dry until bed time.

    Recently I did purchase a Snug Pack Poncho with sleeves with the idea that I could hold the rain jacket in reserve until evening around camp and eliminate my pack cover.Although I have not used it yet,it's pretty obvious that the temps need to be under 50F or I believe it would be too hot to hike in.Additionally,the Snugpack Poncho is a bit on the short side so if you get one you will need either a rain kilt,rain pants,or knee high gaiters if you want to keep your lower legs dry.I have hiked with others who were wet from the knees down and could tell their misery index was considerably higher than mine in the same conditions.Note:my weather limits are night temps mid 20's and day highs forecast for at least 40 F.My system handles that for me.YMMV

  8. #28
    Khike
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    Hello Five Tango, How do those Seal Skins work out for you? I don't like wet feets, either. Kevin

  9. #29
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    Opting for a non breathable fabric rain jacket even if does have long pit zips and full chest zip IMO you better be mindful of proactively mechanically ventilating and have an even better awareness of thermoregulating. Even in colder weather heat inside can build up fast additionally so if you don't meter your pace and ignore output. Functioning breathability plays a role in thermoregulation too despite comments to the contrary. One can test this for themselves with a cheap yellow totally unbreathable PVC or polyester 2 piece yellow jacket and pants from HD or Lowes. Wear such a non breathable jacket and pants combo with a backpack on even at a moderately light pace on flat ground in 45-55* weather with no rain and note how fast heat and vapor builds up inside such non breathable pieces. Now, consider if it was raining with humidity as can be common for the AT. Then, switch to high MVTR WP breathable rain pants and jacket under the same scenario. That should demonstrate that breathability isn't all marketing BS as some make it out to be.

    Really, we shouldn't be so quick to blame the gear or tech. PERHAPS, at least in some cases, it's more accurate if we examine the extent of user's abilities/inabilities. Sometimes, and perhaps often, we are our own worse enemy.

  10. #30
    Registered User lonehiker's Avatar
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    Dog, I've grown to like you a bit over the last few years. I think you, at times, have a keen wit and good sense of humor. But, damn, you over-think things...
    Lonehiker

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khike View Post
    Hello Five Tango, How do those Seal Skins work out for you? I don't like wet feets, either. Kevin
    If I may, I like the SealSkinz Walking light mid and light ankle WP socks. I tried getting the DexShell bamboo WP socks but missed out at an REI closeout. I like going with lighter wts and modular foot system. As it gets colder I too like Five Tango will add different wt merino socks as a liner for greater wicking and warmth. Showers Pass WP socks sold in teh bike section are similar sold at REI. Another WP sock I've had long term dry satisfaction in cooler wet weather are Hanz Calf height. To me if I get a tight seal at the top and the WP socks don't slide down or bunch up from my perspective it's much like having WP footwear but the WP membrane is now in the sock and thus removable providing options. Now, I can go with non WP lighter wt trail runners. This can provide the gradient needed for appropriate wicking of a WP sock. Personally, when I do use a WP sock on extended backpacking trips of mixed weather I'll carry a second pr of shorter merino socks like DT's, SW's, IB's, or Bridgedales. I've use WP socks successfully too many times as a cold weather fisherman, winter sports activists, and hiker to not recognize they have value and a place in my sock arsenal.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonehiker View Post
    Dog, I've grown to like you a bit over the last few years. I think you, at times, have a keen wit and good sense of humor. But, damn, you over-think things...
    Hopefully, just a bit, to keep us honest and me on my toes. Yeah, I can be profound.

    Seriously, Lonehiker observe on trail how often you note how many have issues regulating their body temp.

    John Abela did a nice piece on thermoregulation. It applies to apparel layering stems which rainwear is a component. How often do you see a rainwear piece being used wearing no other apparel. https://hikelighter.com/2012/04/01/w...o-do-and-know/

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khike View Post
    Hello Five Tango, How do those Seal Skins work out for you? I don't like wet feets, either. Kevin
    I wear them almost exclusively now except for extremely hot weather.As long as the water does not get over the top of the sock your foot will stay dry.However,it is important that the shoe must vent water well and not be of the waterproof variety;the reason being that if and when water gets trapped in the shoe your foot is going to feel the cold clammy feeling of being immersed in water that is inside the shoe.Your shoes have to drain properly or it will be moderately miserable.In a well drained shoe the water pumps out quickly and your feet get happy in short order!

    My last outing we wound up having to wade a flooded area to bushwhack back to the truck.When I arrived at home my right foot was dry and the left had about two tablespoonfuls that had topped the sock.Yes.it was knee deep water I'm talking about.The liners I use are simple REI light wool liner socks.I wear them at home too.

    Another feature of the Seal Skinz knee high sock is that they keep my legs warm.With the liner,the SS sock,pants,and a knee high gaiter I wear no base layer below the waist other than regular Ex Officio boxers.
    For summer I keep a shorter pair of Seal Skinz to use around camp inside a wet shoe to help negate the need for camp/water shoes.I think that pair of socks weighs in around 3 oz. or so.I have hiked in them after the shoe got soaked and put the Darn Tuff socks in a pants pocket to dry out.

  14. #34
    Khike
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    Hey Dog, I love Ya'! Thermoregulation? When you gonna break out the pie charts?

  15. #35
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    You got me. Wait till I blow the dust off that packed away statistical mathematics BS and recite Thermo Dynamics I & II class material. BPL wonks wind me up and then I fuel the flames with caffeine.

  16. #36
    Registered User gbolt's Avatar
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    The Packa solves many rain wear issues and is worth the cost IMHO. Here is a video review: http://youtu.be/2xRx-og2MY8

    I also use Marmot Rain Pants but as much for wind and cold layering system; as well as ZPacks Rain Kilt.
    "gbolt" on the Trail

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    We are here to help one another along life's journey. Keep the Faith!

    YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCik...NPHW7vu3vhRBGA

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbolt View Post
    The Packa solves many rain wear issues and is worth the cost IMHO. Here is a video review: http://youtu.be/2xRx-og2MY8

    I also use Marmot Rain Pants but as much for wind and cold layering system; as well as ZPacks Rain Kilt.
    Great video! When my poncho gives out ó or before ó Iíll be ordering a Packa.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbolt View Post
    The Packa solves many rain wear issues and is worth the cost IMHO. Here is a video review: http://youtu.be/2xRx-og2MY8

    I also use Marmot Rain Pants but as much for wind and cold layering system; as well as ZPacks Rain Kilt.
    Thank you Gbolt for the review. I'd like to add your review to my website if Ok with you?
    CT

  19. #39
    Registered User gbolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cedar Tree View Post
    Thank you Gbolt for the review. I'd like to add your review to my website if Ok with you?
    CT
    That would be awesome! Anything to help those that make Hiking all the more enjoyable!
    "gbolt" on the Trail

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    We are here to help one another along life's journey. Keep the Faith!

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