Campsites during "the season"

[Dogwood]

That is a good article. But does this really apply to the PCT desert (up to KM)? Again, I only did the 1st section, but there, "camping by water" meant, mostly, camping at Lake Morena CG, "camping" in a motel room in Julian, or camping at 3rd gate. 3rd gate camping isn't "camping by water" like Drew is talking about. The water there is all bottled!
I guess there were some other, natural sources to camp by also, but this was the "camping by water" that I recall. Most other nights were dry...

I don't know what you mean. Regardless, I wouldn't lose sight of the main topic of the article as that certainly does apply to the PCT especially in the Mojave.


Whether one is hold up camping at a bottled water source or natural is a moot pt. It is STILL revolving your sleep nights around staying at a water source.



BTW, when are you starting? Maybe it was said but missed it.

[jefals]

well, partly, I guess it depends on what you like. For me, out on the trail, a CG or a town is a welcome site. But I understand some would like to always camp more remote.
As for the bottled water site vs. natural water, Drew talks a lot about the low area associated with a site like a lake, the bugs, the wetness. None of this applies if you're near a cache.

[jefals]

BTW, when are you starting? Maybe it was said but missed it.

I may call it off. Been training for it and supposed to start 2/16. But right now I'm not feeling strong enough. Or fit enough, I guess, is a better way to put it. I was up to hiking 3 hours a day, 6 miles, 700 feet of climbing. Then we had some weather and I got a cold. Took a couple weeks off, and now it's killing me to do 4 miles and 450 feet of climbing. Definitely not where I'd like to be before I start something like this.

[Wyoming]

If I offended anyone it was not intentional.

What I try and do all the time is to impart knowledge and 'best practices' and to stay away from comments which might lead someone new to hiking into trouble. The folks with lots of experience know how to take care of themselves pretty much, though anyone can make a mistake. But think of the things you feel comfortable doing which could get someone who has no experience in big trouble.

I have messed up comments and had someone point out a better answer too.

It used to be that brand new hikers pretty much were non-existent in areas where they could get into real trouble. Not anymore. One sees on the PCT now the same kind of total cluelessness that is a staple of the AT. It is a little disturbing and I am always worrying about them. As I noted I carry extra water in the desert at all times and have had to give water to hikers who were out several times. Many end up having to do this. Hikers have had to be rescued on the first day in between Campo and Lake Morena for that very reason. Last time I was at Scout and Frodo's there were 3 women with packs so heavy they could not lift them up high enough to hang them on the scale. It is easy to die in the desert (not every day by any means but those conditions happen frequently and can catch anyone by surprise) and I want people to know how to deal with the situation.

[Dogwood]

well, partly, I guess it depends on what you like. For me, out on the trail, a CG or a town is a welcome site. But I understand some would like to always camp more remote.
As for the bottled water site vs. natural water, Drew talks a lot about the low area associated with a site like a lake, the bugs, the wetness. None of this applies if you're near a cache.

That's what I assumed but wanted to know from you directly.

[Dogwood]

I may call it off. Been training for it and supposed to start 2/16. But right now I'm not feeling strong enough. Or fit enough, I guess, is a better way to put it. I was up to hiking 3 hours a day, 6 miles, 700 feet of climbing. Then we had some weather and I got a cold. Took a couple weeks off, and now it's killing me to do 4 miles and 450 feet of climbing. Definitely not where I'd like to be before I start something like this.

Although, we like to often assume we're in better hiking shape than we actually are it's not uncommon to have hikers work themselves into their hikes. I'd say it's more the norm than the exception.


R U/were U planning on starting at Campo? If so the terrain is amendable to working your way into the hike. With that start date it will not be as hot(actually very cold at night, not as many high day time highs either), not too many others, but you will experience more snow travel, and you're likely not to need as much water so U may not have to schedule your days around watering hole CS's or mega water hauls. Be mindful of getting up to date water cache info as possibly some caches might not yet be fully stocked.

[Dogwood]

You definitely could benefit by learning to dry camp. It plays well into shorter MPD avgs at the start. Dry camping doesn't have to mean you have no water just not night camping at water.

Also, with that start date you will have even fewer difficulties finding CS's even if they are more established ones.

[Wyoming]

I may call it off. Been training for it and supposed to start 2/16. But right now I'm not feeling strong enough. Or fit enough, I guess, is a better way to put it. I was up to hiking 3 hours a day, 6 miles, 700 feet of climbing. Then we had some weather and I got a cold. Took a couple weeks off, and now it's killing me to do 4 miles and 450 feet of climbing. Definitely not where I'd like to be before I start something like this.

I may call it off. Been training for it and supposed to start 2/16. But right now I'm not feeling strong enough. Or fit enough, I guess, is a better way to put it. I was up to hiking 3 hours a day, 6 miles, 700 feet of climbing. Then we had some weather and I got a cold. Took a couple weeks off, and now it's killing me to do 4 miles and 450 feet of climbing. Definitely not where I'd like to be before I start something like this.

I would not give up yet but you do need more endurance than that to get between Campo and Lake Morena as it is a single water carry.

As much as you can I would get out and walk even if it is just miles around town (carry your pack). After having a cold it takes a few days to come back but it should come quicker than it was getting into your earlier shape. Walk every day as many miles as you can (do several short hikes and rest in between). Switch to your high fat hiking diet as that will make your training easier. See where you are in 9 days and make a decision. Take into account what the weather forecast for that section is for the 16/17th - if it is going to be very hot be cautious as water consumption will go up significantly. If it is going to be cooler than normal that is a big help.

Make sure your pack is as light as possible as you are going to need to carry at least 5 liters of water if it will take you 2 full days to get to Lake Morena. You don't need to carry very much food as there is food at Lake Morena and Mt Laguna.

If you are not certain that you can make it from Campo to Morena in 2 days (1 1/2 is much better) you are not ready to start.

ANOTHER Option - If you start somewhere else than at Campo the reservations work differently.

Start your hike further north and you can get a different and later date. For Instance I just looked at starting at Warner Springs (mile 110) and there are open dates until almost the middle of March still. So you could change your app and get a later permit. Hike north from there and if you make it all the way to Canada you are returning to CA anyway and you could go SOBO from Warner to finish up the thru in Nov or something like that.

If you start as far north as Gabazon (I-10 at mile 210) you no longer even need to have a set start date I believe. You can start when you want to.

Or you could find a good location to hike south to the border from and then go north from your starting location later. Using a less than 500 mile permit to go south and then a plus 500 mile thru hiker permit to go north from where you started to the south. I think that is allowed. If I am wrong on that (I have never done this) someone chime in and correct me.

[jefals]

R U/were U planning on starting at Campo? If so the terrain is amendable to working your way into the hike. With that start date it will not be as hot(actually very cold at night, not as many high day time highs either), not too many others, but you will experience more snow travel, and you're likely not to need as much water so U may not have to schedule your days around watering hole CS's or mega water hauls. Be mindful of getting up to date water cache info as possibly some caches might not yet be fully stocked.

Yes, Dogwood, starting at Campo. Because of the logistics involved in getting there, I could wind up getting a late start out of there, and could wind up with just a 5 or 6 mile hike that first day. Would like to be able to make it to Morena the next day, but probably not. May still be 5 or 6 from Morena when I start out on morning 3.
I know the climbing isn't too bad, except challenging (for me) between approx. mile 15 and 18 or so. Not too steep, I don't think, but just consistent uphill.
Last time I did this, I started from Campo with 8 liters. I've been training with 6.5, and I'm pretty confident that will be enough to get me to Morena.
But - again - I'm gonna be confident in my fitness level or I ain't goin! ?

[jefals]

You definitely could benefit by learning to dry camp. It plays well into shorter MPD avgs at the start. Dry camping doesn't have to mean you have no water just not night camping at water.

Also, with that start date you will have even fewer difficulties finding CS's even if they are more established ones.

With my mpd average, and the distance I expect between sources, I'm sure I'll be doing my share of dry camping. I'm not likely to pair that with any night-hiking, unless I get to the point where I might think I could be in trouble if I don't. I'm the kinda guy that generally carries a lot of water out there, tho, unless it's short distance to the next source.

When I got the permit, there were surprisingly quite a number of folks planning to start on that date.

[jefals]

You definitely could benefit by learning to dry camp. It plays well into shorter MPD avgs at the start. Dry camping doesn't have to mean you have no water just not night camping at water.

Also, with that start date you will have even fewer difficulties finding CS's even if they are more established ones.

With my mpds being low, at least at the start, and the distances between water, I'm sure I'll do my share of dry camping. You said 'I could benefit by LEARNING to dry camp'. Did you really mean 'I could benefit from dry-camping', or, as you said, 'Learning to dry-camp'? Cause I'm not sure what there is to learn... I mean, other than common sense things like you might not want to cook, or use water for anything other than drinking.. Any other tips? ( No night-hiking, unless I get to a point where I figure I might be in trouble if I don't). But I generally plan more on carrying more water than I need. It may give me an aching back, but it also gives me a comfort level.

[jefals]

I would not give up yet but you do need more endurance than that to get between Campo and Lake Morena as it is a single water carry.

As much as you can I would get out and walk even if it is just miles around town (carry your pack). After having a cold it takes a few days to come back but it should come quicker than it was getting into your earlier shape. Walk every day as many miles as you can (do several short hikes and rest in between). Switch to your high fat hiking diet as that will make your training easier. See where you are in 9 days and make a decision. Take into account what the weather forecast for that section is for the 16/17th - if it is going to be very hot be cautious as water consumption will go up significantly. If it is going to be cooler than normal that is a big help.

Make sure your pack is as light as possible as you are going to need to carry at least 5 liters of water if it will take you 2 full days to get to Lake Morena. You don't need to carry very much food as there is food at Lake Morena and Mt Laguna.

If you are not certain that you can make it from Campo to Morena in 2 days (1 1/2 is much better) you are not ready to start.

ANOTHER Option - If you start somewhere else than at Campo the reservations work differently.

Start your hike further north and you can get a different and later date. For Instance I just looked at starting at Warner Springs (mile 110) and there are open dates until almost the middle of March still. So you could change your app and get a later permit. Hike north from there and if you make it all the way to Canada you are returning to CA anyway and you could go SOBO from Warner to finish up the thru in Nov or something like that.

If you start as far north as Gabazon (I-10 at mile 210) you no longer even need to have a set start date I believe. You can start when you want to.

Or you could find a good location to hike south to the border from and then go north from your starting location later. Using a less than 500 mile permit to go south and then a plus 500 mile thru hiker permit to go north from where you started to the south. I think that is allowed. If I am wrong on that (I have never done this) someone chime in and correct me.

Thanks, Wyoming. For me, starting anywhere other than Campo is a non-starter. I know how long it takes to get to Morena, and I know it's a 20 mile carry. I may not be able to start out from Campo till 2 or so in the afternoon, due to bus schedules. (I'm not a Scott and Frodo kind of guy. I'd feel like I was imposing on their hospitality, and they take care of so many folks, I'd personally, rather not impose).

I don't walk around the neighborhood. I walk on a hiking trail with a 50 pound pack, with 3 days of food (and it's probably more like 5) and 6.5 liters of water.
Until my cold, I was feeling pretty good about my fitness. I was hiking 5 miles a day, climbing 700 feet in under 3 hours. On the PCT, that would translate to 6 or 8 hours of hiking, 10 or 12 miles, at least 1400 feet. I'd be comfortable with that. Today I did 3.7 miles, 530 feet. Legs are really aching, tho. As I've mentioned, I have to see how I'm doing in a couple of weeks.

[Dogwood]

Yes, Dogwood, starting at Campo. Because of the logistics involved in getting there, I could wind up getting a late start out of there, and could wind up with just a 5 or 6 mile hike that first day. Would like to be able to make it to Morena the next day, but probably not. May still be 5 or 6 from Morena when I start out on morning 3.

I know the climbing isn't too bad, except challenging (for me) between approx. mile 15 and 18 or so. Not too steep, I don't think, but just consistent uphill.
Last time I did this, I started from Campo with 8 liters. I've been training with 6.5, and I'm pretty confident that will be enough to get me to Morena.
But - again - I'm gonna be confident in my fitness level or I ain't goin! ?

Don't attempt to start your hike on the same day you travel(from Sac?) to SoCal so you're not starting late in the day on Day 1. Consider spending the eve of your starting day at a PCT Trail Angel to which you arrive at the southern PCT terminus by 8 a.m. from via a shuttle. If you do that, can manage 10-14 MPD from the start, and considering your mid Feb start date(cooler weather, more water!), and lower your pack wt which includes consumables like food as Wyoming stated) once you get past that it will likely not be as difficult.

With my mpd average, and the distance I expect between sources, I'm sure I'll be doing my share of dry camping. I'm not likely to pair that with any night-hiking, unless I get to the point where I might think I could be in trouble if I don't. I'm the kinda guy that generally carries a lot of water out there, tho, unless it's short distance to the next source...

With your start date you'll have more naturally occurring water sources in general in SoCal.


The PCT NOBO is not like a PCT SOBO or AT in either direction. A PCT NOBO from the onset is the least strenuous terrain wise of the four options. PCT NOBO terrain is a good hike for wisely hiking yourself into LD hiking condition. Go too fast though with your start date you could very well experience strenuous hiking in snow and ice. Again, with your start date it plays decently into a more relaxed MPD agenda. Also, since you're from Cali heck you could head home for some R&R if encountering snow/ice and hitting a rough spell physically and mentally.

All in all you should be commended for getting out at 71 yrs. This brings up another consideration though - maybe a PCT section hike is a better fit than a NOBO thru, at least given your current state so close to your start date.

[Dogwood]

Thanks, Wyoming. For me, starting anywhere other than Campo is a non-starter. I know how long it takes to get to Morena, and I know it's a 20 mile carry. (I'm not a Scott and Frodo kind of guy. I'd feel like I was imposing on their hospitality, and they take care of so many folks, I'd personally, rather not impose)...

Again, you MAY get some slight water relief in the form of shallow rivulets in mid Feb.


Scott and Frodo as well as other SoCal TA's are no where as busy in mid Feb than mid March to mid April so don't assume you're imposing. Besides, they offer so darn well know what they got themselves into assisting PCT hikers.

[Dogwood]

Again, you MAY get some slight water relief in the form of shallow rivulets in mid Feb... over that Campo to Lake Morena segment. I've personally experienced this twice in a low snow yr with a mid April start on a NOBO and with a late April start on a LASH during a closer to avg snowfall and melt off yr.

[AllDownhillFromHere]

There's a (seasonal) creek at around 4 miles. Maybe on day 1 you could get there after arriving at the Terminus around 2pm? Then from there to Hauser, 11 miles, and probable water. From there it's a hop to Morena, and the Oak somethingsomething campground at Mile 26.

[Dogwood]

What you're getting into is the need for HYOH, which includes planning as well as you can, WITHOUT the need to plan for everything or having the need to have every possible scenario accounted for. There is no way anyone can answer for you what requires your ability to joyfully embark knowing a LD hike requires an adaptable and flexible - find a solution - mindset. On EVERYONE'S hike unexpected events occur.

[Dogwood]

There's a (seasonal) creek at around 4 miles. Maybe on day 1 you could get there after arriving at the Terminus around 2pm? Then from there to Hauser, 11 miles, and probable water. From there it's a hop to Morena, and the Oak somethingsomething campground at Mile 26.

Thank you. TU for providing those details. It's not always the water haul distance that some assume.

[jefals]

What you're getting into is the need for HYOH, which includes planning as well as you can, WITHOUT the need to plan for everything or having the need to have every possible scenario accounted for. There is no way anyone can answer for you what requires your ability to joyfully embark knowing a LD hike requires an adaptable and flexible - find a solution - mindset. On EVERYONE'S hike unexpected events occur.

Yes -- I'm with ya for sure on all this!

[jefals]

the thing about the seasonal creeks, tho, is that you just don't know till you get there. Gotta 'hope for the best and prepare for the worst'. Right?