Campsites during "the season"

[Dogwood]

My PCT hike is now nearly 15 years ago and things have changed. But I suspect that after the first couple of days, hikers will start to figure out the dry camping routine and can walk a few steps off into the desert and lie down to sleep nearly anywhere. Water sources will be crowded, for sure. Learn to manage your water and lots of opportunities open up. It's a similar situation on the AT--there are plenty of pristine, quiet dispersed sites between the overcrowded shelters.

Coddled hikers including highly regarded thru-hikers are a dime a dozen. Most have limited cookie cutter approaches and skill sets. Most bottle up around water sources and rarely to never venture out of sight of the Pacific Crest Interstate off and on ramps.

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[Zed]

Campsites are everywhere. Even on the crowded AT, I camped alone almost every night. Learn to read contour lines on a map and don't be afraid to get off the trail a bit.

[jefals]

Campsites are everywhere. Even on the crowded AT, I camped alone almost every night. Learn to read contour lines on a map and don't be afraid to get off the trail a bit.

Can you describe what to look for on a contour line that tells me there's a campsite? The only thing I can think you might mean is that wider spaces mean more gradual slopes...
Guthook's easier. It has a little picture of a tent and if you touch it, it says "3 tenths of a mile"?

[jefals]

I have developed and formulated a few things over my hiking all "Three" of the trails. One is that I do not plan nor do I seek official camping spots unless I am required by regulation. I consider my sleeping location to be Just a longer break. I sleep away from things such as water, roads, food sources and animal trails. What I map out and plan for are drinkable water sources, re-supply gaps and crazy elevation changes. I often hike well after dark and find it fun to see where i "sleep-over" A "desert rat" long ago taught me to not Hike "To" a water source, but instead walk "Thru" a water source. If it works out I make my dinner at a water source some time between 4:00PM to 7:00PM. I then only carry enough water to safely get me to a dry camp and then to the next water source the next day. Works for me!!!

Not sure I get that about walking thru water sources when you're in the desert, when the next one might be 30 miles away. If you stop at a source, then you can leave camp the next morning with full containers. If you dont, you cant....

[Coffee]

Not sure I get that about walking thru water sources when you're in the desert, when the next one might be 30 miles away. If you stop at a source, then you can leave camp the next morning with full containers. If you dont, you cant....

There aren't very many 20-30 mile carries. The camp away from water source strategy did work for me a few times on longer dry stretches. Keep in mind that if you cook dinner at a water source and load up with water for a long carry, you'll be walking into the night time hours (cooler). Setting up a dry camp takes little time (very little if cowboy camping). You can get some sleep and continue before sunrise and arrive at the next source before it gets too hot. That's a common strategy in Southern California. Since it wasn't terribly hot during my hike I didn't often need to night hike but I chose to a few times anyway.

[Zed]

Can you describe what to look for on a contour line that tells me there's a campsite? The only thing I can think you might mean is that wider spaces mean more gradual slopes...
Guthook's easier. It has a little picture of a tent and if you touch it, it says "3 tenths of a mile"?

That's correct. Wider contours are good places to check out.

I've used Guthook on 3 different thru hikes. You can download USGS maps to it. It's definitely easy but the thing is, everyone else using it knows about that little picture of a tent too. You mentioned a concern about crowded campsites. Thinking outside the box and camping off trail, following LNT practices, pretty much guarantees you can have a spot all to yourself every night, on even a very popular trail, if that is your desire.

[jefals]

Not sure I get that about walking thru water sources when you're in the desert, when the next one might be 30 miles away. If you stop at a source, then you can leave camp the next morning with full containers. If you dont, you cant....

There aren't very many 20-30 mile carries. The camp away from water source strategy did work for me a few times on longer dry stretches. Keep in mind that if you cook dinner at a water source and load up with water for a long carry, you'll be walking into the night time hours (cooler). Setting up a dry camp takes little time (very little if cowboy camping). You can get some sleep and continue before sunrise and arrive at the next source before it gets too hot. That's a common strategy in Southern California. Since it wasn't terribly hot during my hike I didn't often need to night hike but I chose to a few times anyway.

Yeah, you guys are makin me look bad! ?
There aren't many 20 - 30 mile carries? Right out of the gate you got a 20 mile carry from Campo! Then there's a 30 mile one also in that section -- unless you want to bet your life on the cache being there...But you're right, there aren't many.
Hey, when I cook dinner, I will have been hiking with a heavy load for about 8 hours. I'll be ready to call it a day.
I'm not gonna be night-hikin. Gonna be lookin for a site before it gets dark and stay till I can feel some sun on my shoulders. So, I 'll want enough real estate for a tent.

[lonehiker]

There is no particular reason to night-hike unless you just have a compelling urge to do so. There an old saying, "if you can't handle the heat, get out of the desert." Back to finding good campsites though, looking at contours on a map is a way to find likely candidates but with so many no longer carrying maps and simply using apps that method is probably dying. I simply "practice" looking for prospective sites throughout the day. Do that for an extended period of time and you will be surprised how you will learn to recognize certain features that are conducive to likely camp spots. A key is to look further off the trail than the typical spots i.e. further than 10 feet away. Look uphill for little saddles and downhill for the slope decreasing. Basically just keep your eyes open and scan the terrain. I usually have a "target" distance I am shooting for on any given day and once I reach that point I start looking for prospective sites. Be careful though that you don't skip a good site simply because you think there may be a better one just a bit further. Some of my biggest mileage days are because I skipped the last site hoping for a better one and have gotten into some rotten terrain and simply had to hike out of it. Don't be afraid to dry camp. Some of the best spots are just a bit past a good water source.

[Coffee]

jefals, I made a detailed spreadsheet of the water carries prior to my pct and the typically carry is most certainly not 20-30 miles, but if you want to be sarcastic, go right ahead. HYOH.

[AllDownhillFromHere]

...Back to finding good campsites though, looking at contours on a map is a way to find likely candidates but with so many no longer carrying maps and simply using apps that method is probably dying...

Indeed - the paradox that the top of a mountain is always flat*.

*flat being the point at which the gradient drops to zero

[AllDownhillFromHere]

.... HYOH.

Don't you mean "bless your heart" or "good for you" ?

[jefals]

jefals, I made a detailed spreadsheet of the water carries prior to my pct and the typically carry is most certainly not 20-30 miles, but if you want to be sarcastic, go right ahead. HYOH.

Sorry, I was trying to add a little humor - didn't mean to be sarcastic.

[jefals]

jefals, I made a detailed spreadsheet of the water carries prior to my pct and the typically carry is most certainly not 20-30 miles, but if you want to be sarcastic, go right ahead. HYOH.

Coffee, you would know better than me. I've only done the first section, so that's my only experience.
Planning for water in that 1st section, going by the pct water report, and looking at the double asterisk (most reliable sources), we have...
1) Campo to Lake Morena - 20 miles
2) Laguna CG to Rodriguez Spur Truck Tank - 20.9 miles
3) Rodriguez to Warner Springs - 40.6 miles
While you are right to say there aren't many carries more than 15 or 20 miles - there's only 3 - those 3 account for 82 out of the 109 miles in the section. And that 3rd one is serious.
~~~~~
Let's assume there's going to be water at the 3rd gate cache - mile 91.2.
So then it looks like this:
We still have...
1) Campo to Morena - 20 miles
2) Laguna to Rodriguez - 20.9 miles
3) Rodriguez to 3rd gate 22.8 miles
4) 3rd gate to Warner Springs - 17.8
Still about 80 miles out of that 109 with 20 mile carries (okay, the last one was 2.2 miles shy -- close enough for me).
~~~
Yes, you may find more water, but this is based on reliable sources for planning purposes.
And, again I don't know about the others desert sections. I'm just thinking that they're still desert, so they probably aren't a lot better...

[AllDownhillFromHere]

Having done that section last year, I can add:
Oak Springs Campground (or whatever its called) at mile 26
The horse trough at mile 59 - solar powered well pump
Scissors crossing at mile 77 - worst case you hitch to Julian, or to the campground a few miles the other direction
The spring at mile 101, or near a road where you hitch

Also, I started late last year, and while it was a pretty wet year, it was still mid May, and we had lots of water between Campo and Morena on the first day alone at ephemeral springs in the washes. I think all of these long stretches COULD be dry, but doesn't mean that they WILL be.
Besides, you're always carrying your emergency liter, right?

[jefals]

adh, when I'm planning, I only count on the reliable sources with the double asterisks on the water report. yes, I take my emergency liter. and then some!

[AllDownhillFromHere]

adh, when I'm planning, I only count on the reliable sources with the double asterisks on the water report. yes, I take my emergency liter. and then some!

Smart, but what I'm saying is that a) you ought to have 5L or so of capacity, and b) it's 3 months out, so I guess c) don't overthink it. it'll work out.

[gwschenk]

1) Campo to Lake Morena - 20 miles
2) Laguna CG to Rodriguez Spur Truck Tank - 20.9 miles
3) Rodriguez to Warner Springs - 40.6 miles
While you are right to say there aren't many carries more than 15 or 20 miles - there's only 3 - those 3 account for 82 out of the 109 miles in the section. And that 3rd one is serious.

There's more water sources than that. You guys keep restricting yourselves to the water report and apps that miss a few sources. They are off trail a bit, you might go a mile (or more) out of your way, but they are there. Expand your horizons. Look at topos, read the Wilderness Press guidebooks. Apps and water report are brainless and easy, but sometimes you have to engage that brain and do a bit of work.

[jefals]

hey, I've been on my training trail for several months with 6.5. I'll be taking that to start. more on that 40 mile stretch, tho I suspect there will be folks in the area to update me on the 3rd gate cache.
with the weather as good as it looks down there, I decided not to wait 3 months. Leaving in a couple weeks , assuming the permit comes and the spirit moves me!

[Coffee]

Here are the sources I used in April 2015 up to Idyllwild. I made note of my water sources all the way up to Kennedy Meadows but it sounds like you're mainly concerned with the very southern end.

Mile 0: Campo: Either bring 4-5L of water with you or get water in town.
Mile 20: Spigots at the Lake Morena campground (I did not rely on caches and the seasonal creek along the way was dry).
Mile 26: Boulder Oaks Campground
Mile 37.7: Long Canyon Creek
Mile ~41: Mt. Laguna store (the campground was closed and I did not check spigots but assume they were off)
Mile 52.6: Pioneer Mail Picnic area (recollection is that it was from the trough not the faucet)
Mile 59.5: Sunrise trailhead (note that the PCT water report says it is now dry)
Mile 77.3: Stagecoach Trails RV Park (near Scissors Crossing, I hitched there but walked back early the next morning)
Mile 91.2: Third Gate cache - yes, you should not rely on caches but I have never seen so much water cached anywhere else. Check PCT water close to your date and decide accordingly.
Mile 101.1: Barrel Springs
Mile 109.5: Warner Springs
Mile 112.6: Agua Caliente Creek - Top off here
Mile 127.3: Chinuahaua Valley Road - water tank provided by private resident
Mile 137: Tule Spring
Mile 151: Paradise Valley Cafe (route to Idyllwild - road walk)

Hope this helps. Definitely double check the PCT water report before your hike.

[lonehiker]

You will run into hikers going sobo. Ask them about areas you are concerned about.

I started my first section at Mexican border to Agua Dulce in 14 and second section from AD to Echo lake in 15, both of which were major drought years, and had no significant issues. I took capacity to carry 6.5 quarts and add to that my stomach (about another quart) and you will be surprised how far you can go on that amount of water. Although you won't have to carry that much very often.