Alcohol Stove Discussion (technical info heavy post)

[hipbone]

I have been using alcohol stoves for 17 years and I have always found them light and efficient in practically any condition. There has been a lot of info scattered about in different threads and I thought I would start a thread instead of hijacking multiple ones.

My alcohol stove set up:

stove (jetted stove made of small sized soda cans) - 8 grams
pot stand (chicken wire pot stand with every extra gram trimmed off) - 7 grams
windscreen (beer can screens that look damn cool) - 8 grams
heat shield (small piece of folded aluminum foil to protect the ground and reflect back heat) .5 grams
23.5 grams total

my alcohol stove efficiency:

boil time for 2 cups of water - 6 minutes
volume of alcohol needed for 2 cups of water - .6 oz
flame out for .6 oz of alcohol - 9 minutes
weight of 1 oz of alcohol - .78 oz

Weight calculations for X number of days: (number of days * times cooked a day * alcohol needed to boil 2 cups of water * .78 oz) + stove weight + fuel bottle weight

I only cook 1 time per day so the following calculations reflect that. Also, anything less than a 5 day trip I could use a smaller vessel and cut weight, but I will ignore that weight savings for ease of calculations

2 dinner trip (weekend trip):

amount of alcohol needed - 1.2 oz
fuel weight - .936 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight - 1.936 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight+stove kit - 2.936 oz


5 dinner trip (about 75 miles on the AT):

amount of alcohol needed - 3 oz
fuel weight - 2.34 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight - 3.34 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight+stove kit - 4.34 oz (about the weight of an empty canister stove canister)


10 dinner trip (Probably the longest carry you'll ever have to do on the CDT; about 200 miles):

amount of alcohol needed - 6 oz
fuel weight - 4.68 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight - 5.68 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight+stove kit - 6.68 oz


13 dinner trip (the most days I can go without getting a bigger fuel bottle):

amount of alcohol needed - 8 oz
fuel weight - 10.3 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight - 11.3 oz
fuel weight+fuel vessel weight+stove kit - 12.3 oz (about the weight of a full 8 oz MSR fuel canister)


Of course always take a little more alcohol than you'll use in a day (I boil with .5 oz so I calculated with .6 oz). Also keep in mind that every day you cook you will lose a pretty significant amount of fuel weight. The last day of your trip you'll basically be carrying only the weight of the fuel vessel. Also, if your main goal is time savings while cooking, a canister stove will take 1/2 as long to boil water as an alcohol stove (saving you about 3 minutes a day).

I am really serious about cutting grams out of my pack. I find that a light pack helps me prolong my hiking career by saving my knees and my joints (I am at the age where I will start having problems with my body if I do not take care of it). We are relatively small people so what a normal weight person carries is multiplied greatly when we have to carry it. Also, my hiking partner has had 2 reconstructive knee surgeries and osteoarthritis so cutting weight is CRITICAL to us. We are long distance hikers....

If you can save us weight by suggesting a lighter cooking set up please share. If you can show me the point at which I will save weight by taking a canister stove I will certainly take advice. I am not dedicated to any cook set up, I only need the lightest. I have considered going stoveless also, but meal preparation before the hike is a real enjoyment to us. MtnGoat is a really good cook and we dehydrate all of our meals before we go out...not having a hot home cooked meal every day would take a lot out of our hike. I have also looked into wood stoves but I don't think I would enjoy collecting tinder and sooting up my pot.

thanks in advance for your suggestions!

[Time Zone]

As a nerd, I certainly appreciate the details here. My experience with alcohol stoves is such that what stood out to me most was that you could get 9 minutes burn out of 0.6g alcohol. That's pretty darn good IMO.

I'm curious about your beer can windscreen. I use some flashing leftover from a roof job on my house, trimmed to size and with the edges smoothed over with steel wool (as best I can - dullness is limited by thickness - though I'd think getting a beer can screen dull would be harder unless you relied upon folding over the edge). Do you have pix of your windscreen? Just curious what you did for ventilation. For mine, I have some tiny binder clips to raise it up ... and to keep it enclosed, though perhaps a small gap on the side with the pot handle wouldn't compromise efficiency too much ... IDK.

Kudos to you for wanting to save your knees; that's a concern of mine too. I'm starting to appreciate, however, that the low-hanging fruit (for me) is all in the Big 3. Sure, I could shave off grams from the many small things I bring too, but in nearly all those cases, it would involve trading grams for functionality. That is, there'd be some penalty or inconvenience for doing so. Right now I want to focus on the things that are almost (save for $ spent), a win-win. Lower weight, lower bulk, NO loss in utility or comfort.

Can't think of anything to shave grams from your stove, but you didn't mention what kind of pot you use, unless I missed it.

[Kaptainkriz]

Keep your pot support and windscreen and replace the Alc stove with a BGET (1 gram) and use the 4g esbit tabs. That's the lightest setup I know of. Carry exactly the fuel you need.

If you can save us weight by suggesting a lighter cooking set up please share.

[hipbone]

As a nerd, I certainly appreciate the details here. My experience with alcohol stoves is such that what stood out to me most was that you could get 9 minutes burn out of 0.6g alcohol. That's pretty darn good IMO.

I'm curious about your beer can windscreen. I use some flashing leftover from a roof job on my house, trimmed to size and with the edges smoothed over with steel wool (as best I can - dullness is limited by thickness - though I'd think getting a beer can screen dull would be harder unless you relied upon folding over the edge). Do you have pix of your windscreen? Just curious what you did for ventilation. For mine, I have some tiny binder clips to raise it up ... and to keep it enclosed, though perhaps a small gap on the side with the pot handle wouldn't compromise efficiency too much ... IDK.

Kudos to you for wanting to save your knees; that's a concern of mine too. I'm starting to appreciate, however, that the low-hanging fruit (for me) is all in the Big 3. Sure, I could shave off grams from the many small things I bring too, but in nearly all those cases, it would involve trading grams for functionality. That is, there'd be some penalty or inconvenience for doing so. Right now I want to focus on the things that are almost (save for $ spent), a win-win. Lower weight, lower bulk, NO loss in utility or comfort.

Can't think of anything to shave grams from your stove, but you didn't mention what kind of pot you use, unless I missed it.

My windscreen is made out of 2 beer cans (usually NC brewed). I join them with an origami fold (ie no jb weld or glue) to hold them together. Then I fold over each edge of the screen to keep it from having sharp edges. I do a soft roll instead of a hard crease to give it a good smooth edge. I round all of the exposed edges to get rid of sharp edges. I put a hole punch about 1/4 of an inch from the bottom every inch. I do not clip my wind screen together, I actually leave it open a little to increase air flow (I put the open edges opposite the breeze if I can). The windscreen is modest size, but used correctly it's about all you need. Picture is attached

My pot is the Toaks Light Titanium 550 ml pot with no handles (1.5 oz, 2.2 oz with the lid). Both MtnGoat and I carry one each. We put 1 oz of alcohol in the stove, light it, boil my meal, then i remove it and put her meal on immediately after mine boils. We can get both of our meals to boil with about an ounce of alcohol, the rest of the cooking is done in a pot cozy. The Toaks 550 is a really good size for a mug also...when we have extra fuel left over we have hot teas.

alcohol stove 1.jpg

[Rex Clifton]

Didn't talk about the pot, big omission. I use a caldera cone sidewinder paired with an evernew 900 and a zelph staylyte stove. I can get away with rationing .6 oz of fuel for two cups of water because the cone is so wind resistant and because of the wide base on the pot. I'm not sure any other wind screen/pot combination would do the trick, at least not any that I have tried.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

[hipbone]

Keep your pot support and windscreen and replace the Alc stove with a BGET (1 gram) and use the 4g esbit tabs. That's the lightest setup I know of. Carry exactly the fuel you need.

excellent suggestion and I am considering it. Do you have fuel specifics as far as grams per 2 cup boil and boil times? Since we both have to boil our dinners time would be a limiting factor with esbit. If I can boil 2 meals in under 10 minutes then esbit is definitely an option.

[hipbone]

Didn't talk about the pot, big omission. I use a caldera cone sidewinder paired with an evernew 900 and a zelph staylyte stove. I can get away with rationing .6 oz of fuel for two cups of water because the cone is so wind resistant and because of the wide base on the pot. I'm not sure any other wind screen/pot combination would do the trick, at least not any that I have tried.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

Sorry the pot is a toaks 550, but I have used 1.5 liter, 1.2 liter, and a 900 ml pot before the toaks 550 and they all boiled about the same, the water would still boil but boil times were slightly different from what I remember. I'd consider doing a few boil tests in different pots to see if I could increase efficiency, but I do enjoy having 2 small pots so that we can do hot drinks. We made a few hot teas on our Long Trail thru hike this year and it was really satisfying

I can probably get a more efficient wind screen but my wind screen only weighs 8 grams...and uh...they're made with local NC beer cans so...you know...

Zelph's stuff is super nice, I just enjoy tinkering and making stoves so I make my own. I probably have 50 stoves and 15 complete stove sets in my garage right now.

[Rex Clifton]

Keep your pot support and windscreen and replace the Alc stove with a BGET (1 gram) and use the 4g esbit tabs. That's the lightest setup I know of. Carry exactly the fuel you need.

I like where you're go'in! My caldera cone came with their gram cracker stove that I used a few times and really like. The problem I always had with esbit was that, in a more open environment, it's a wimpy fuel. In the cone, however, it burns like a house on fire. I'm planning to use solid fuel a lot more this season. The only downside is it leaves a sticky residue all over everything.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

[Rallywagon]

Try a fuel mixture of 1/3 isopropanol (90% from a pharmacy) with 2/3 methanol (Heet yellow). It burns slower with more heat value but does not soot the pot....at least in my Fancee Feast type stove.

[Rex Clifton]

Sorry the pot is a toaks 550, but I have used 1.5 liter, 1.2 liter, and a 900 ml pot before the toaks 550 and they all boiled about the same, the water would still boil but boil times were slightly different from what I remember. I'd consider doing a few boil tests in different pots to see if I could increase efficiency, but I do enjoy having 2 small pots so that we can do hot drinks. We made a few hot teas on our Long Trail thru hike this year and it was really satisfying

I can probably get a more efficient wind screen but my wind screen only weighs 8 grams...and uh...they're made with local NC beer cans so...you know...

Zelph's stuff is super nice, I just enjoy tinkering and making stoves so I make my own. I probably have 50 stoves and 15 complete stove sets in my garage right now.

Thanks for the info. The toaks 550 looks like a sweet little pot. Any magic about NC beer cans? I live in Wisconsin and we drink a lot of beer up here, have alot of cans. On the hoop stove, did you make? I tried making and after a few times gave up and bought a toaks titanium siphon stove. On my capillary stove builds, they would never come up to pressure.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

[hipbone]

Try a fuel mixture of 1/3 isopropanol (90% from a pharmacy) with 2/3 methanol (Heet yellow). It burns slower with more heat value but does not soot the pot....at least in my Fancee Feast type stove.

nice...it's on the list of things to try...

[Slo-go'en]

I bought a caldera cone and matching optimized alky stove and never looked back. Between the stability of the stand and the efficiency of the stove/cone, it can't be beat.

[hipbone]

I bought a caldera cone and matching optimized alky stove and never looked back. Between the stability of the stand and the efficiency of the stove/cone, it can't be beat.

do you have a weight on the caldera cone? What pot do you use with it? Do you have the weight of your pot? I wonder if a caldera with a toaks 550 works...I've looked into caldera cones but I haven't worked out the geometry to make my own. I also like making my stuff from recycled cans so I'd have to drink a few tall boys

thanks for the info

[hipbone]

Thanks for the info. The toaks 550 looks like a sweet little pot. Any magic about NC beer cans? I live in Wisconsin and we drink a lot of beer up here, have alot of cans. On the hoop stove, did you make? I tried making and after a few times gave up and bought a toaks titanium siphon stove. On my capillary stove builds, they would never come up to pressure.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

Have you ever seen a Lone Rider Sweet Josie can? Nice art. Also, Oskar Blues Dales Pale Ale cans have the phrase "infinitely recyclable" on each can...when I make my wind screens I make sure that phrase shows...that's a little magic right?

[Kaptainkriz]

I use the Zelph modified Toaks 550 with a cone. For fun I just made a big cup o tea with 3 tabs (~12g) outside on the deck - it's 19F outside and I started with water from the fridge (38F). Full rolling boil in 10:52.

excellent suggestion and I am considering it. Do you have fuel specifics as far as grams per 2 cup boil and boil times? Since we both have to boil our dinners time would be a limiting factor with esbit. If I can boil 2 meals in under 10 minutes then esbit is definitely an option.

[hipbone]

I use the Zelph modified Toaks 550 with a cone. For fun I just made a big cup o tea with 3 tabs (~12g) outside on the deck - it's 19F outside and I started with water from the fridge (38F). Full rolling boil in 10:52.

NICE. I'll look into esbit. I always avoided them because I heard they gum up your pot. Most of my boil times are at 40 degrees or warmer so not a lot of colder weather experience. I'm a 3 season hiker so haven't done lots of cold weather boils with my stoves.

[AllDownhillFromHere]

I bought an esbit and hated it - gummed up the pot, smelled of chemicals.

[Kaptainkriz]

For some reason, the 4g tabs don't seem gum up the pot much...at least far less than the cubes. Not sure if it is the shorter height (bigger pot distance) or formulation. My 550 cone weighs 18g in the Tyvec sleeve.

NICE. I'll look into esbit. I always avoided them because I heard they gum up your pot. Most of my boil times are at 40 degrees or warmer so not a lot of colder weather experience. I'm a 3 season hiker so haven't done lots of cold weather boils with my stoves.

[hipbone]

For some reason, the 4g tabs don't seem gum up the pot much...at least far less than the cubes. Not sure if it is the shorter height (bigger pot distance) or formulation. My 550 cone weighs 18g in the Tyvec sleeve.

Where did you get your cone? Did you have your pot rolled also? Any way to use the caldera cone without a roll in the pot?

[hipbone]

For some reason, the 4g tabs don't seem gum up the pot much...at least far less than the cubes. Not sure if it is the shorter height (bigger pot distance) or formulation. My 550 cone weighs 18g in the Tyvec sleeve.

also, can you fit your caldera cone inside of your toaks 550? I specifically make my wind screens short enough to fit inside my pot...no big deal if it doesn't fit in the pot, just wondering..