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  1. #1

    Default Specific Advice Needed on Alcohol Stoves vs Canister Stoves and Fuel Weight

    Hello all,

    I am in the 2018 thru hike class and have decided to use an alcohol stove, I also have a titanium pot (my stove and pot weight totally around 6.5 ounces). I am having second thoughts however. I want to be able to bring two cups of water to a boil three times a day for 5 days. Weight wise, am I better off using a 100g fuel container instead and a lightweight burner? I looked at many forums and saw that it seems I would need about three ounces of alcohol a day (maybe even more if it is really cold) which would put me at 15 oz of alcohol. I am just trying to find the lightest stove and fuel option for the lowest combined weight for what I want to do. I cant imagine a 100g fuel container would be lighter than 15 oz of alcohol. Please help, I'm pretty confused here.

    Eric

  2. #2
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    From my inventory:
    Pocket Rocket 2 stove + 110 gram MSR canister = 10.04 ounces / 285 grams.
    Will that combination boil 30 cups of water? Only you can answer that with strict testing.
    My JetBoil SOL probably could do it and save you about a day per week of sitting around waiting on alcohol.
    Good luck! Go testing!
    Wayne
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  3. #3
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Go to this page. Scroll down and read the examples on fuel use and light gas canister stoves.
    https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com
    Begin your testing.
    Wayne
    Eddie Valiant: "That lame-brain freeway idea could only be cooked up by a toon."
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  4. #4
    Garlic
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    Someone told me if you cook more than one meal a day, you're probably better of with gas.

    Don't fret the decision too much. It's easy enough to change along the way if your cooking habits change. And if you decide to go alky, you can make a stove with roadside trash and a pocketknife.

  5. #5
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Cool

    Bingo!
    Even if you use a JetBoil stove, your boiling routine is very unorthodox based on what others say here at WhiteBlaze. Too many cups per day that is.
    The Stove Guy's spreadsheet says 250 grams of canister gas is needed in your scenario.

    On average, I boil 15 cups of water per day.
    Note: One cup is about 250 ml.
    My stove burns about 3.0 grams of fuel per cup boiled.
    About 4 g for conventional stoves; 3 g for high efficency stoves like a Jetboil; or enter your own number based on your experience.
    My next trip will be 5.0 days long.
    If you know know you'll be boiling less on a given day, count that day as, 0.25, 0.5 or 0.75 depending on how much less; count all other days as 1.
    I will need about 225 grams of fuel as a baseline estimate.
    I want a 10 percent margin for error.
    Wind, delays, etc. may cause you to need more.
    I will need about 248 total grams of fuel (baseline + margin).
    Therefore I need a 450 gram sized canister.
    Note: Formula includes 100, 110, 220, 230, and 450 as possible canister sizes.
    I will have about 202 "excess" grams fuel.
    Giving me about 67 additional cups boiled total.
    Or about 13 additional cups boiled per day.

    Don't you just love spreadsheets!
    Wayne
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  6. #6
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garlic08 View Post
    Someone told me if you cook more than one meal a day, you're probably better of with gas.

    Don't fret the decision too much. It's easy enough to change along the way if your cooking habits change. And if you decide to go alky, you can make a stove with roadside trash and a pocketknife.
    Or you could muddy the waters with the voice of reason from garlic.
    Wayne
    Eddie Valiant: "That lame-brain freeway idea could only be cooked up by a toon."
    https://wayne-ayearwithbigfootandbubba.blogspot.com
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  7. #7
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    I seriously doubt you will boil water three times per day....if so a canister would be way more efficient as others said. The more I’m out the less I feel like cooking or fooling with a stove...


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    Quote Originally Posted by saltysack View Post
    I seriously doubt you will boil water three times per day....if so a canister would be way more efficient as others said. The more I’m out the less I feel like cooking or fooling with a stove...


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    Agreed.

    My canister stove plus the empty canister is roughly 5.5 oz. versus maybe 1 oz alchy stove plus fuel container. The weight savings is negligible when you factor in the greater fuel efficiency of the canister. The convenience of the canister outweighs any real or imagined weight savings for me.


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  9. #9
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    I'm in that same "three boils a day" category, despite others saying they doubt folks do that. I have coffee in the morning (3 cups water = 2 12 oz cups of coffee), dinner (1.5 cups) and usually hot tea in the evening (2 cups), some days as many as 7 cups of hot water. For my hot water needs, I believe that a canister is more efficient weight wise than alcohol because of the fuel weight, and a 110 gram canister lasts me 6-7 days using a jetboil Sol Ti stove, alas, not made anymore, their most efficient stove weight wise. If you're using a less efficient lightweight burner and pot, you should still get 5 days.

    Because I'm a heavy hot water user, I also appreciate the speed of a canister setup vs. alcohol. If I only heated water once a day for dinner, or maybe twice a day, I'd probably go with alcohol.

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    You’re probably not going to cook that much, man.

    3 times a Day is a lot of fuel, but also time. I’d bet money you abandon cooking lunches at least.

    That said either way I’d recommend a canister stove.
    Alcohol stoves are lighter but once you start carrying fuel for 4 or 5+ days it starts to weigh more than a canister set up.

    And it just takes so damn long.
    Be prepared to be envious of your buddies who are already chowing down on hot macncheese while you’re barely just coming to a boil.




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  11. #11

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    Great answers and advice from everyone! Thanks so much for the information. I was looking at my setup at the moment: MSR Titan Titanium Kettle; Vargo Decagon and Vargo aluminum windscreen. Those three pieces weigh a total of 6.7 oz, a Jetboil SOL Titanium is under 9 oz from what I have seen. Anyone know where I can find a used SOL Titanium?

  12. #12
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    Get yourself a 4oz Firebox Nano twig stove. Packs flat. No bulk and negligible weight. All the fuel you ever need to boil up dinner is within 10 sq feet around your tent 99% of the time. If you truly believe you can't make a twig fire in the wet (which you easily can), then carry a < 1oz fancee feast stove to use in the nano (as a wind shield) and a couple oz of alcohol for emergencies.

    http://www.fireboxstove.com/3-inch-t...g-firebox-nano

    nano.jpg

  13. #13

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    You can get 1oz canister stoves, so that's a wash with an alky stove, and just putting aside all the efficiency gadgets like pot heat exchangers, neoprene cozies, and caldera cones (available to either) - it seems to boil down to fuel & container weight, and from what I've seen, it's about breakeven at the 4-5 day mark. Alky lighter for shorter periods, canister lighter for longer periods.

    - 7 grams/pint boil or 100gm/7.5qt or 5 days is tight but doable from a 100gm small Jetboil canister. 7oz at start and 3.5oz at end averages @ 5.25oz.
    - In my experience 20ml per pint boil is equally tight for alcohol, so that's 11 fl. oz. or 9oz by fuel by weight. Incl 1oz fuel bladder, that's 10oz at start and 1oz at end averages 5.5oz.

    So IMHO, it really boils down to preferences - the advantages of canisters has been mentioned, but how about alcohol?
    - 'Rechargeable': I personally tend toward shorter trips so always had partially used canisters. Like primary batteries there's no point in throwing them away, so that usually means carrying an extra canister. Alcohol is more like rechargeable batteries - I fill up just what I need, with a little reserve. However, this is probably a wash on continuous thruhike.
    - Availability: I also bicycle/ADVmoto tour, and alcohol seems more widely available.
    - Multi-tasking: alcohol makes a good fire starter, and very efficient survival heat source (i.e., Palmer Furnace candle) which I personally like using as a luxury in cold weather, e.g. a deep heat soak before going to bed. Actually, I use Everclear when I can which additionally multi-tasks as dehydrated vodka, hand sanitizer/wet wipes, water conserving kitchen solvent/cleaner/sterilizer, mouthwash/deodorant, etc.

    Just another perspective.

  14. #14

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    I'm a fan of liquid stoves simply because I can carry the fuel I use, and there's less waste. No half-filled steel cans everywhere. Just buy a gallon of Coleman fuel (or in your case alcohol or use HEET bottles), and use only what you need.

  15. #15

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    I also like the fact that alcohol stoves are totally recycled pieces and you don't have to dispose of the steel canisters. If you're going on a trip longer than 10 days I'd take a BRS canister stove (or more likely for me my alcohol stove since I have it dialed in) ...but I usually hit town in less than 7...which means I only need to carry exactly the fuel I need and no more.

    My cook kit weighs less than 5 oz with everything...4 oz of fuel and I'm at less than 9 oz for everything including my spoon. 4 oz of fuel will last my girlfriend and me 4 days. If I go solo I can use less than .75 oz a day. Again, my alcohol stove system is super dialed in and i have put a lot of effort into cutting grams from my system

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by wbaeric View Post
    Anyone know where I can find a used SOL Titanium?
    I suggest Ebay or craigslist, if you haven't already. I found one on Amazon a couple years ago, snagged it instantly (for a gift, I already have one), just checked, none there now... Assuming you don't find one, grab the lightest, smallest (0.8 liters vs 0.9 for Sol Ti) new Jetboil, not sure what it's called these days, maybe the "zip"? Only 2-3 ounces heavier than the Ti, I believe, great little stove, someone mentioned below 7 grams for a 2-cup boil, more like 5 grams (4.5 under perfect conditions) with a modern jetboil. You should get 7 days easily with a 110 gram canister with a new jetboil.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by wbaeric View Post
    Hello all,

    I am in the 2018 thru hike class and have decided to use an alcohol stove, I also have a titanium pot (my stove and pot weight totally around 6.5 ounces). I am having second thoughts however. I want to be able to bring two cups of water to a boil three times a day for 5 days. Weight wise, am I better off using a 100g fuel container instead and a lightweight burner? I looked at many forums and saw that it seems I would need about three ounces of alcohol a day (maybe even more if it is really cold) which would put me at 15 oz of alcohol. I am just trying to find the lightest stove and fuel option for the lowest combined weight for what I want to do. I cant imagine a 100g fuel container would be lighter than 15 oz of alcohol. Please help, I'm pretty confused here.

    Eric
    I'm sure you will get a lot of opinions, so why not add mine. With a good windscreen, a non-tall (wider diameter than height) pot, and a decent burner at the right distance from your pot bottom, you should be able to boil 2 cups of water with 3/4 oz alcohol and possibly just 1/2 oz alcohol. So three boils could require as little as 2 oz per day or 10 oz for 5 days (plus the weight of the burner and pot support). That assumes careful alcohol measurement and pre-hike testing of your setup to figure out just what you need and to make sure that the 2 oz/day budget will work for you. A light canister setup could be pretty close competition. A wood burner with Esbit backup could save you a half pound, and help you get killer fire skills.
    Last edited by QiWiz; 12-29-2017 at 16:47.
    Find the LIGHT STUFF at QiWiz.net

    The lightest cathole trowels, wood burning stoves, windscreens, spatulas,
    cooking options, titanium and aluminum pots, and buck saws on the planet



  18. #18

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    Also I'll add that the BRS stove weight is impressive, but haven't tested it's efficiency. I'm doing the JMT next year and since there are open fire bands his is the stove i may take.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggreaves View Post
    Get yourself a 4oz Firebox Nano twig stove. Packs flat. No bulk and negligible weight. All the fuel you ever need to boil up dinner is within 10 sq feet around your tent 99% of the time. If you truly believe you can't make a twig fire in the wet (which you easily can), then carry a < 1oz fancee feast stove to use in the nano (as a wind shield) and a couple oz of alcohol for emergencies.

    http://www.fireboxstove.com/3-inch-t...g-firebox-nano

    nano.jpg
    Looks awesome!


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    Fancee Feest alcohol stove weighs very little, 1/2 ounce fuel will boil 2 cups with proper windscreen:


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