Hiking in Colder Temps

[Tipi Walter]

For winter camping, a 4 seasons tent is mandatory (as others pointed out).
The difference is dramatic.

The coldest I ever had in a tent was on the slopes of Mont Blanc (the highest in Europe). The little thermometer indicated something lower than -20°C - inside the tent.
This was in my old Salewa Sierra Nevada, double wall, not exactly the best 4-seasons, but OK.
I had "the best" Salewa expedition down bag, a double-thick CCF mat and was in full clothes, including a down jacket.
Slept fine, trouble was the nose freezing.

A year later we were tenting on another high mountain, similar height, similar cold (maybe a tad less), same bag&mattress, but the tent was a Sumitomo Nanga Parbat which at this time was "the best" expedition tent designed for Himalaya and such.
I was really warm in the bag, had to open it and was short of using it as a quilt.

A really good 4-seasons tent makes all the difference.

I really like the way your mind thinks, probably because we are in total agreement. I call it this: "when push comes to shove" phenomenon. Severe cold coupled with high winds and the truth emerges; what works and what does not. We get pushed and shoved by Miss Nature until we figure out the solution.

Here in the Southeast mountains we too get subzero temps with high winds, especially on mountaintops above 5,000 feet. Study Mt LeConte winter temps---they commonly get to -20F. And the winds can get hellish.

One reason I see very few backpackers in the winter is because of their lack of good gear and their unwillingness to both purchase or carry such gear: a stout 4 season tent and a high quality subzero down bag.

[Leo L.]

Thanks for the kind words, Walter. I always tell my wife some anectodes you give here.

The last few outings I did I was suffering quite a bit, in the night. Instead of my Prolite Plus (which had developed a blowout) I was using my wife's Prolite (without plus). Noticeabely lighter and thinner. And much less warm, so I was on the brink of shivering through the night. The temps were around freezing.

I know my sore points when getting cold: The head (easy to solve, by putting on a woolen hat and closing up the mummy bag), and the mattress (can be improved a bit by putting as much other stuff under the mattress as possible).

Again, as many had pointed out here before, the hiking itself is no problem, in the cold. Just hike as fast as you need to stay warm, but well away from sweating.
Some problems might arise as soon as you stop, for a break or for the night. The cold creeps into the body sooner or later.

One thing I had to learn the hard way:
Whatever you do, always keep a bit of personal energy as a safety margin, never walk/hike/climb to the edge of exhaustment.

[saltysack]

Once again, the problem is the air mat. In those temps, a Neoair xlite MUST be supplemented with a (minimum) 3/8" closed cell foam pad ON TOP, or, as has been suggested, use an Xtherm. If still cold, wear all (DRY) clothing as well... everything ya brung, coats, longjohns, buffs hats gloves, yada yada. Still cold? Use a hot water bottle to augment, and budget extra stove fuel for this purpose.

And yes, a Duplex is not a winter tent. I have a Duplex but for winter conditions I use a MLD Duomid. Pitched tight to the deck it blocks wind well and that is the key.

Two things I have to ask: What do you mean by "tents put up in the shelter" and "Duplex couldn't be pitched properly"???

Finally got permission from the sheriff(wife)...I’m starting this Friday afternoon at iron mtn gap sobo doing the 88 miles to Hot Springs by Tuesday evening. Weather looks good but will probably be lil chilly in the 20* Enigma under the duomid. I’m definitely bringing the xtherm and the bivy to add lil warmth. Planned on going stove less but think I’ll bring the achy stove. Here’s forecast for Erwin down at 1,700’.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tipi Walter]

One thing I had to learn the hard way:
Whatever you do, always keep a bit of personal energy as a safety margin, never walk/hike/climb to the edge of exhaustment.

Leo L.: That's funny . . . the prolite . . . without plus . . .

And you bring up the fact of how exhaustion coupled with cold can significantly accent possible hypothermia; going beyond that safety margin. I see it in myself all the time---getting to camp exhausted and cold. Exposure really happens faster when exhausted.

Oh and btw---it REALLY helps to get a Ridgerest Solar pad (silver thing) along with an inflatable and get a two-pad system going for winter camping. See pic. Advantages---
** In case the inflatable dies you can double up the Solar ccf pad and get 7R for hips and chest and arms and torso.
** When placed on top of inflatable the solar really augments warmth on butt cold nights at 0F on rock hard frozen ground. (Thru experimentation I've found the ccf on top works better than underneath).
TRIP 170 221-XL.jpg

Finally got permission from the sheriff(wife)...I’m starting this Friday afternoon at iron mtn gap sobo doing the 88 miles to Hot Springs by Tuesday evening. Weather looks good but will probably be lil chilly in the 20* Enigma under the duomid. I’m definitely bringing the xtherm and the bivy to add lil warmth. Planned on going stove less but think I’ll bring the achy stove. Here’s forecast for Erwin down at 1,700’.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good plan and good idea to bring the stove---as a mental buffer against the cold---a true comfort item.

[Leo L.]

A <like> at Walter.

A stove and a good amount of fuel is essential, in the real cold.
During the aforementioned trip to Mount Blanc, we were 4 guys, occupying two tents.
My mate brought a sturdy, heavy steel-and-brass gas stove (automotive gas) and the other party had a canister stove for very normal camping use (the Blue one, using Butane).
The gas stove worked perfectly fine, we had our morning tea and started off from the tent at 4:00am for the summit.
The other partys canister stove failed miserabely and they took off so late that they finally missed the summit.

Nothing better than a cup of hot tea when its really cold...
(but keep an empty bottle at hand for the night when drinking it in the evening <G>)

[Tipi Walter]

A stove and a good amount of fuel is essential, in the real cold.
During the aforementioned trip to Mount Blanc, we were 4 guys, occupying two tents.
My mate brought a sturdy, heavy steel-and-brass gas stove (automotive gas) and the other party had a canister stove for very normal camping use (the Blue one, using Butane).
The gas stove worked perfectly fine, we had our morning tea and started off from the tent at 4:00am for the summit.
The other partys canister stove failed miserabely and they took off so late that they finally missed the summit.

Nothing better than a cup of hot tea when its really cold...
(but keep an empty bottle at hand for the night when drinking it in the evening <G>)

I like the morning and evening ritual of using my stove on a backpacking trip. It's a comfort item but also allows me to carry less food weight due to the tricky but understandable math---Dehydrated foods-ready-to-cook are lighter than a no-cook diet with snack foods. Why? Because water exists in more amounts in snack foods vs dehydrated foods---and this water doesn't have to be carried and can instead be retrieved on a daily basis around camp/along the trail---so it's not carried in your pack as an ingredient in snack foods.

In other words, a bag full of 21 home-dehydrated dinner meals is very small---just add water. And oatmeal for breakfast---just add water.

And a stove is vital on a trip with 0F or -10F temps---just to melt snow or to thaw stored pot water (keep your water in the cook pot overnight in the tent vestibule and it will turn to a solid block of ice---but it's in the pot and not in your water bottle(s) so you can quickly crank the stove for liquid water.

[Venchka]

Leo L.: That's funny . . . the prolite . . . without plus . . .

And you bring up the fact of how exhaustion coupled with cold can significantly accent possible hypothermia; going beyond that safety margin. I see it in myself all the time---getting to camp exhausted and cold. Exposure really happens faster when exhausted.

Oh and btw---it REALLY helps to get a Ridgerest Solar pad (silver thing) along with an inflatable and get a two-pad system going for winter camping. See pic. Advantages---
** In case the inflatable dies you can double up the Solar ccf pad and get 7R for hips and chest and arms and torso.
** When placed on top of inflatable the solar really augments warmth on butt cold nights at 0F on rock hard frozen ground. (Thru experimentation I've found the ccf on top works better than underneath).
TRIP 170 221-XL.jpg



Good plan and good idea to bring the stove---as a mental buffer against the cold---a true comfort item.

I’m headed for Boone, NC (north and higher elevation than Irwin) this weekend. I started packing and figured I should check the forecast. I immediately packed my woolies and down jacket.

Be warm!
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tipi Walter]

I’m headed for Boone, NC (north and higher elevation than Irwin) this weekend. I started packing and figured I should check the forecast. I immediately packed my woolies and down jacket.

Be warm!
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You know why I'm so fixated on cold weather backpacking and camping and overkill gear? Because I spent 30 years living and backpacking in Boone and around Watauga County. The old Boone winters will make a believer out of you.
tipi walter in a deep snow on the tipi ridge-L.jpg
Standing outside my Tipi in 1990---Watauga County.

[egilbe]

I’m headed for Boone, NC (north and higher elevation than Irwin) this weekend. I started packing and figured I should check the forecast. I immediately packed my woolies and down jacket.

Be warm!
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That looks downright balmy!

[Venchka]

Balmy is relative.
To folks from Florida the forecast for Boone might as well be the Yukon.
Something about cold weather not yet mentioned: Your internal thermostat needs a few days to adjust to being outdoors in the cold around the clock. It takes a few days for your body to adjust to the new temperature. If you only go on weekends then you will think that your gear is adequate and that you are going to freeze. After a week things get better.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Venchka]

“Gear is INADEQUATE “
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tipi Walter]

Balmy is relative.
To folks from Florida the forecast for Boone might as well be the Yukon.
Something about cold weather not yet mentioned: Your internal thermostat needs a few days to adjust to being outdoors in the cold around the clock. It takes a few days for your body to adjust to the new temperature. If you only go on weekends then you will think that your gear is adequate and that you are going to freeze. After a week things get better.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cold adjustment is true. I just finished a hot summer season of backpacking in the humid furnace of Georgia and Tennessee---so when I pulled my recent November trip I was shaking like a monkey in a vaseline factory being chased by a silverback gorilla. After 15 days of the cold I got used to it and so it goes.

And here's a winter tip---You stay warmer outdoors if you do not bathe. Your body oils keep you warmer. I wrote this on December 28, 2013 as a short blurb in my trip report during a winter backpacking trip---

ATTENTION WINTER BACKPACKERS
We've been told for decades to not bathe on winter trips and you'll stay warmer. Well, here's a post about winter survival on Bushcraft USA titled Swedish Tips and Tricks for Winter(9/3/13)started by a guy from Sweden named Thump and a guy named Fnixen says---


"I'm from Sweden as well and I have also been told not to wash my face with soap because the dirt and fat will protect the skin in cold weather."

[LIhikers]

.......Check the "R-value" insulation rating of your sleeping pad, if you have a particularly low R-value then consider getting an extra foam pad to put underneath it and keep you warm from the cold ground........
.

This is sage advice.
A sleeping bag won't keep you insulated from the cold ground so you need a good pad, or two.

[Dogwood]

Drink copious amounts of water. This is often forgotten during colder hikes. Protect H2O from freezing overnight.

It's not just about bringing warm gear but gear that breathes and is capable of being ventilated should you start exerting yourself. Perhaps, a 4 layer system with each layer slightly less weightier is more versatile than a 3 layer system with 1 heavier insulation layer? Clothing accessories should be carefully considered that compliment your hiking style during this time of the yr, your specific layering scenarios, and that are easily altered(removed or added) aka hat, balaclava, socks, gloves/mittens, Buff, etc. It's also a time of yr when some forget sunglasses which could prove useful on very sunny days with the leaves off the trees. Thermoregulation is as important than ever. Don't overheat on the move or allow to get too cold when at rest. This requires attention and diligence.

Shells should breathe, be able of being ventilated, be WP, and have some good level of being wind proof. On the move wearing a loaded backpack sometimes a mid layer underneath such a shell with these qualities while addressing extremities with these accessories could be all you need.

Consider higher fat % food of total daily calories, a warmed b-fast and dinner possibly with something hot like a hearty soup or drink.

Consider warm sleeping socks. I love the Goose Feet down booties/socks for foot specific warmth when sleeping.

Consider chemical heat packs like Toasty Toes, hand warmers(drop one inside each hand pocket or glove/mitten), Footbed insert warmers or battery operated warming socks, etc.

[Dogwood]

Start the process of extending your comfortable temp range by sleeping outside a few nights in the same set up as you'll be employing on the hike before the hike. Take brisk walks pre NJ AT section wearing your hiking clothes set for the hike wearing your backpack. Feel the cold on your face. Go ice skating. Outside in the cold and preferably in the wind and/or rain set up your shelter, cook your food, change layers/accessories, etc before the hike. It's called training.

[Dogwood]

Pay attention to altering pace during the pre hike training to assist in thermoregulating. We don't have to all hike like run away freight trains maintaining the same pace under all trail conditions. This assists in also achieving the best energy bang/getting down the trail with less input which could reduce food needs/wt of food, muscle fatigue, etc.

[Odd Man Out]

As mentioned, head covering is a key hiking, camping, and sleeping. A buff is a wonderful piece of equipment to hike and sleep in, especially if using a quilt vs a mummy hooded sleeping bag. I find hiking and sleeping is easier to regulate body temp. I tend to suffer the most in camp. But that is probably the area that gets the least practice during long winter evenings. I make sure I have books on kindle to read when sheltered.

+1 on the Buff. On my last fall hike, it was not winter conditions, but still pretty chilly, especially in camp at dawn. One morning I was feeling a bit chilled during morning camp chores. I put on my Buff and almost immediately I felt warm. It was amazing what a difference it made.

[clusterone]

You know why I'm so fixated on cold weather backpacking and camping and overkill gear? Because I spent 30 years living and backpacking in Boone and around Watauga County. The old Boone winters will make a believer out of you.
tipi walter in a deep snow on the tipi ridge-L.jpg
Standing outside my Tipi in 1990---Watauga County.

Now that is a winter hat!

[nsherry61]

Drink copious amounts of water. . .

And, practice peeing into a bottle while you're in bed until you manage to train yourself to do so without issue. For many of us it is really, really hard to get our bodies to let pee flow while in bed. Not to mention, it can take some practice to figure out how to do it without risking a spill. It is harder than one would think and being able to do so is a big plus when it is the middle of a dark and stormy night and you don't want to get out of your warm sleeping bag to relieve yourself, and holding it is uncomfortable enough it will keep you awake.

[saltysack]

And, practice peeing into a bottle while you're in bed until you manage to train yourself to do so without issue. For many of us it is really, really hard to get our bodies to let pee flow while in bed. Not to mention, it can take some practice to figure out how to do it without risking a spill. It is harder than one would think and being able to do so is a big plus when it is the middle of a dark and stormy night and you don't want to get out of your warm sleeping bag to relieve yourself, and holding it is uncomfortable enough it will keep you awake.

I’d love to see my wife’s reaction to me practicing this skill at home!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk