How to Section the Smokies?

[Bigg Jilm]

3 of us are planning a hike from Fontana to Rt 40 to knock out the Smokies this year (July or August). We usually tent on our section hikes. Reading up on the regulations, it appears there is no tenting at the Shelters... "7. Backcountry permit holders may not use tents at shelters." Don't mind shelters, but if there full, we're burned.

So, our debate begins.

1. Should we even bother bringing tents?
2. Should we just tent at shelters and not worry about it?
3. What's the stealth camping situation like for the Smokies?
4. Are hammock an option or are the trees too small (Seems like they were at the Dome)?

Basically, I guess I'm asking what would you do? Any help appreciated.

[soumodeler]

As a section hiker, by rule, you must make reservations at each shelter you want to stay at and sleep in the shelter. The only “legal” option for sleeping out of a shelter is if you are a thru hiker, which you do not meet the definition of. You up can make reservations roughly a month out, and you must secure spots for all 3 of your group at each shelter or campsite for each night. July and August should be pretty easy to get spots on the AT.

[Gambit McCrae]

As a section hiker, by rule, you must make reservations at each shelter you want to stay at and sleep in the shelter. The only “legal” option for sleeping out of a shelter is if you are a thru hiker, which you do not meet the definition of. You up can make reservations roughly a month out, and you must secure spots for all 3 of your group at each shelter or campsite for each night. July and August should be pretty easy to get spots on the AT.

To add, to be considered a "thru Hiker" to get a "thru hiker permit" you must be starting 50 miles and ending 50 miles outside the park boundary. This would allow you to use a tent, but only if the shelter is full. Even if you are a thru hiker, and the shelter still has space, you must use the shelter. Once the shelter is full, you would be allowed to set up your tent.

"Should I even bring a tent" - There are some that will say to always bring some sort of shelter. I personally would look at your own experience level. I guess an argument could be made that if you were to injure yourself it would be critical to have some sort of shelter to guard against the conditions until help arrives. I bring my cuben tarp on trips thru the Smokies. I would not personally lug a full blown tent thru the Smokies knowing I wasn't going to be able to use it.

Bring earplugs, you will need them in the shelter.

[LittleRock]

I've had posts deleted for speaking my true opinion before, so I'll say this: assuming you plan to follow the rules, the only place where you would possibly need a tent on the AT in the Smokies is if you are camping at the Birch Spring campsite near the south end of the park.

[tdoczi]

I've had posts deleted for speaking my true opinion before, so I'll say this: assuming you plan to follow the rules, the only place where you would possibly need a tent on the AT in the Smokies is if you are camping at the Birch Spring campsite near the south end of the park.

ive had plenty of opinions removed, but not for saying that.

i'll second that. i made proper reservations at all shelters i was staying at. that more or less made it illegal for me to use a tent. i was not going to carry an item the regulations stated i could not use.

that said, if you're going to take that position be ready to kick someone out of a shelter if you get there late and it is full because someone with a thru hiker permit took a spot. i never had to do it, but it was a close call a couple nights.

[Rain Man]

What's the stealth camping situation like for the Smokies?

"Stealth" camping in the Smokies is illegal. Here's what discussions of illegal activities are like on WB, per the User Agreement:

4. Discussions involving how to commit illegal acts, ... are forbidden.

I "thru-hiked" the Smokies in Spring of '05. No problems at all with shelters (except a big Boy Scout group who completely lied about having reservations).

[Dogwood]

I'm an UL minimalist hiker aiming to never carry that which I don't need. Ive asked the question to NP Rangers many times going solo if I should carry a shelter as a AT thru or AT GSMNP section hiker. AT through GSMNP is the busiest trail in the park. July and Aug are prime use months. Regardless of rules they arent always followed. Hiking agendas change. People get into problems. Slick scamming SOBs abound particularly at AT GSMNP shelters! Other times "emergency" conditions occurhere're are three in your party raising

[Dogwood]

Other times "emergency" conditions occur. There are three in your party raising the possibility someone in your group doesn't get the shelter space they are supposed. Some, I'd say many?, over estimate their own or someone in their parties ability...especially at NP's! I've personally also have experienced groups like the Boy Scouts, whose leaders have no absolute monopoly on always being truthful, or having issues within the group unexpectedly take up an entire AT GSMNP shelter...when they didn't have reservations to be there. This creates a sticky issue throwing people out of a lean to. What are you going to do...demand to see everyone's permit? Ive done that several times. Good luck! What are you going to do...put yourself and someone else or others on the spot making a non medical on the fly judgement call that they really aren't in a medical emergency? Good luck!

Be strong. Be wise. Don't be UL spoiled. Carry a shelter within your group. 3 P shelter wts have decreased to such a pt 1 lb per person isn't unheard of.


I always carry at least an UL tarp on the AT through GSMNP. I suggest you have at least a 2 p tarp in your 3 p party.


I tend towards making last minute permit reservations in all the NP's I hike including GSMNP. I always get a permit but that's as a solo hiker. When I make those reservations at NP's like GSMNP where required to stay at sites I always inquire about how full the shelter or site space is. If the shelter is very near or at capacity I definitely take my own shelter. Most often the AT GSMNP shelters are at least 1/2 full. I take at least a tarp most times. All this is written to help you grasp the back round details why I've been shut out of AT GSMNP shelters with my later arriving hiking tendencies 30% of the time AS A RESERVATION HOLDER. Im glad I always have a tarp. I'm glad I choose to no longer focus on the AT in GSMNP. I'm glad my AT hiking no longer prioritizes a need for shelters. I'm so so glad hiking no longer revolves around the AT as the the center of my hiking world. Blah blah blah...

[rocketsocks]

Other times "emergency" conditions occur. There are three in your party raising the possibility someone in your group doesn't get the shelter space they are supposed. Some, I'd say many?, over estimate their own or someone in their parties ability...especially at NP's! I've personally also have experienced groups like the Boy Scouts, whose leaders have no absolute monopoly on always being truthful, or having issues within the group unexpectedly take up an entire AT GSMNP shelter...when they didn't have reservations to be there. This creates a sticky issue throwing people out of a lean to. What are you going to do...demand to see everyone's permit? Ive done that several times. Good luck! What are you going to do...put yourself and someone else or others on the spot making a non medical on the fly judgement call that they really aren't in a medical emergency? Good luck!

Be strong. Be wise. Don't be UL spoiled. Carry a shelter within your group. 3 P shelter wts have decreased to such a pt 1 lb per person isn't unheard of.


I always carry at least an UL tarp on the AT through GSMNP. I suggest you have at least a 2 p tarp in your 3 p party.


I tend towards making last minute permit reservations in all the NP's I hike including GSMNP. I always get a permit but that's as a solo hiker. When I make those reservations at NP's like GSMNP where required to stay at sites I always inquire about how full the shelter or site space is. If the shelter is very near or at capacity I definitely take my own shelter. Most often the AT GSMNP shelters are at least 1/2 full. I take at least a tarp most times. All this is written to help you grasp the back round details why I've been shut out of AT GSMNP shelters with my later arriving hiking tendencies 30% of the time AS A RESERVATION HOLDER. Im glad I always have a tarp. I'm glad I choose to no longer focus on the AT in GSMNP. I'm glad my AT hiking no longer prioritizes a need for shelters. I'm so so glad hiking no longer revolves around the AT as the the center of my hiking world. Blah blah blah...

I can relate to your last “I’m glad”

[HooKooDooKu]

Because camping is only permitted in GSMNP at designated campsites, all forms of 'stealth camping' are illegal.

Ignoring Birch Spring Gap for the moment (as this is a 'camp site' without a shelter, and therefore tents and hammocks are permitted)... GSMNP rules require AT section hikers to stay in the shelters and follow their reserved itinerary. They are not permitted to use tents at shelter sites, and park rules treat a hammock like a tent.

Officially, there are no rules governing what to do should you reach a shelter and it is full... because in theory, if you have a shelter reservation, then you will have an available spot in the shelter (as AT thru hikers must relinquish their spot in a shelter to those with reservations). However, because things can happen (such as injury that might prevent you from reaching your next designated shelter, or people at the shelter who are not following the rules) it would be foolish to NOT bring a tent or other form a shelter should you find yourself in need of protection from the elements.

[HooKooDooKu]

Should we just tent at shelters and not worry about it?

Unfortunately, GSMNP is a large place, and there are NOT enough rangers to catch all the people I see on a regular basis breaking various park rules.

However, one of the things I am happy to report is that GSMNP has ridge runners to help keep an eye on things along the AT corridor. The effect is that I typically see better adherence to park rules along the AT corridor than what I see in other sections of the back country.

[LittleRock]

Officially, there are no rules governing what to do should you reach a shelter and it is full... because in theory, if you have a shelter reservation, then you will have an available spot in the shelter (as AT thru hikers must relinquish their spot in a shelter to those with reservations). However, because things can happen (such as injury that might prevent you from reaching your next designated shelter, or people at the shelter who are not following the rules) it would be foolish to NOT bring a tent or other form a shelter should you find yourself in need of protection from the elements.

This is pretty much exactly why I never plan on hiking the GSMNP section of the AT again. Anywhere else on the trail, if you come across a shelter and don't like the company you find there, you can just move on up the trail until you find another flat spot and set up your tent. From my recollection, GSMNP section of the AT was full of inexperienced hikers who made staying in the shelters less than pleasant, and following the rules basically means you're stuck with them.

[Bigg Jilm]

Because camping is only permitted in GSMNP at designated campsites, all forms of 'stealth camping' are illegal.

Ignoring Birch Spring Gap for the moment (as this is a 'camp site' without a shelter, and therefore tents and hammocks are permitted)... GSMNP rules require AT section hikers to stay in the shelters and follow their reserved itinerary. They are not permitted to use tents at shelter sites, and park rules treat a hammock like a tent.

Officially, there are no rules governing what to do should you reach a shelter and it is full... because in theory, if you have a shelter reservation, then you will have an available spot in the shelter (as AT thru hikers must relinquish their spot in a shelter to those with reservations). However, because things can happen (such as injury that might prevent you from reaching your next designated shelter, or people at the shelter who are not following the rules) it would be foolish to NOT bring a tent or other form a shelter should you find yourself in need of protection from the elements.

Thanks to all...sounds like we better play it safe and carry the tents.... I'm less enthused to do this Section than I probably should be. I don't really like staying in shelters in general. Rainy days fill them up quickly and I am a light sleeper to boot.

I have hiked parts of GSMNP before, but I still need most of it. I've never had to kick someone from a shelter before...i hope not to have to ever do it. At this point we will make 3 individual reservations and have a tent contingency...

[Christoph]

Basically, I guess I'm asking what would you do? Any help appreciated.

Well, I'm one of those guys that' going to tell you to bring some sort of shelter no matter where you go. It doesn't have to be a huge tent, but at least bring a tarp or something in case you have to ride out a storm, injury (although there'll be plenty of people around which brings me to my next point, etc...). As stated before, know the rules about shelters. You'll be going in July/August so you won't have as many people crammed into the shelters at once (hopefully). Stealth camping... well, no comment. I saw hammock hangs all around the shelters both trips through there. Rangers were very nice and as long as we were within the shelter area, most of them let us tent around the shelter even though it wasn't "technically" full.

[HooKooDooKu]

I saw hammock hangs all around the shelters both trips through there. Rangers were very nice and as long as we were within the shelter area, most of them let us tent around the shelter even though it wasn't "technically" full.

Hammock hangs near shelters (but not attached TO the shelter) are allowed by those would otherwise be allowed to setup a tent near a shelter (i.e. those with thru-hiker permits WHEN the shelter is full). During thru-hiker season, the shelters usually fill up, so I could see the possibility of rangers "looking the other way" that you've setup a tent before the shelter was full if they anticipated the shelter was going to be full anyway. Just don't bank on that attitude by every ranger and ridge runner you might encounter.

[Burrhead]

Just got home from a four night trip in GSMNP that involved Tri-Corner knob shelter last night. We had reserved spots and no one complained and made us feel as welcome as the thru hikers. We got 19 people into a 12 person shelter( I think it's listed as a capacity of 12). 10 tents anywhere it was possible to put up a tent and 4 more tents on up the trail at the horse tie up. No rangers or ridge runners came by but in previous experience, if the shelter is full, food is on cables and everyone is happy they leave everyone alone. Take a shelter of some kind and have fun!

[Bigg Jilm]

We got 19 people into a 12 person shelter( I think it's listed as a capacity of 12).

Ugh....that sounds like a fun night, but poor for sleeping. Thanks for the input, though.

[JPritch]

Just got home from a four night trip in GSMNP that involved Tri-Corner knob shelter last night. We had reserved spots and no one complained and made us feel as welcome as the thru hikers. We got 19 people into a 12 person shelter( I think it's listed as a capacity of 12). 10 tents anywhere it was possible to put up a tent and 4 more tents on up the trail at the horse tie up. No rangers or ridge runners came by but in previous experience, if the shelter is full, food is on cables and everyone is happy they leave everyone alone. Take a shelter of some kind and have fun!

We might have crossed paths at some point then.

I noticed the thru's preferred the shelters and many sectioners wanted to tent or hang (and most did), opting not to throw out a thru. Seems like the regs have it a$$-backwards.

To OP, don't let the thought of crowds etc affect your planning. The people I met were cool as $hit and accommodating, and everyone respected others' personal space and kept noise down. I got to experience all the Smokies had to offer, including some really bad weather, and got to do it with great people, and it's an experience I won't soon forget. Once I got off the trail and to the gaps/roads/town, the crowds were nauseating.

Question - why so few privy's in the Smokies? Seems a privy would be much better than a damn mine field of tp and crap covering an entire hillside. Also, noticed the boil water advisories at several shelters....best we could figure it was due to the crap mine field leaching into the springs? Can anybody confirm?

[HooKooDooKu]

I noticed the thru's preferred the shelters and many sectioners wanted to tent or hang (and most did), opting not to throw out a thru. Seems like the regs have it a$$-backwards.

It's not that the regs have it backwards... it's that the regs are actually VERY accommodating to the needs of the Thru Hikers.
Everywhere in GSMNP, you're only allowed to camp at designated sites, and for each site for a given night you want to camp there, you must have one of the limited reservation for the campsite. Further more, if the camp site is a shelter, then you must camp in the shelter. This helps to lessen the impact on the ground around the shelter.

But GSMNP understands that it's difficult for thru hikers to stick to a regimented itinerary when you've started your hike 200+ miles away, as well as the fact that during the bubble, there will be many more hikers than the shelter capacity can hold. So in reality, GSMNP is "bending the rules" to accommodate the AT Thru hikers needs (because even thru hikers are supposed to camp in the shelter and NOT setup a tent unless the shelter is full).

And if rules continue to be broken or the impact gets too sever, you can expect something like a daily quota to eventually get set on AT Thru hikers. Section hikers are limited to the existing reservation capacities. But currently, there is no limit on the number of thru hiker permits that can be issued. Contrast that with other places, such a hiking the JMT starting from within Yosemite. Only 45 JMT permits are issued per day. By contrast, during the bubble, you can easily have 45 hikers at each GSMNP AT shelter.

Question - why so few privy's in the Smokies? Seems a privy would be much better than a damn mine field of tp and crap covering an entire hillside. Also, noticed the boil water advisories at several shelters....best we could figure it was due to the crap mine field leaching into the springs? Can anybody confirm?

Obviously a privy requires maintenance... more privies translates to more maintenance translates to more cost.
Otherwise, the "boil water" is the only officially recommended method of water treatment by the park service for the entire back country, not JUST near campsites and shelters (it's a CYA thing).

[TNhiker]

And if rules continue to be broken or the impact gets too sever, you can expect something like a daily quota to eventually get set on AT Thru hikers.

its gonna happen....

sadly, it cannot denied...

my guess is in 3-5 years, there will be a quota...