Crampons or spikes, what should I get at REI?

[Besalu]

Hello:
I am trying to gear up for my PCT thru-hike but have never used any winter/snow gear. What should I get to cross the snowy Sierra (in case I need it), crampons or spikes.Please, excuse my ignorance, but can someone explain to me the difference and with which one I may be on the safer side. REI has a sale coming with spikes for $54 and I wondered whether I should get them or not. . .I don't know. Never hikes in snow. Thank you for your advice.
J.

[Besalu]

I mean, I would like to know which one I shall buy to be on the safer side. Thank you.

[Venchka]

There different types of crampons. Mountaineering and ice climbing crampons and trail crampons. You want the trail crampons if you decide to buy crampons.
Wayne

[egilbe]

If you are using crampons, you are going to want an ice axe. If you have an ice axe, you better know how to use it to keep yourself from sliding to your death. If all you need are spikes, you wont need an ice axe, but you better be prepared to take some detours and not cross any steep snowfields.

More than likely you will be fine with something like Hillsound trail crampons. I use them if I don't think I will fall to my death. Anything more dangerous and I use crampons and an ice axe.

Ymmv

[garlic08]

"Spikes," I believe is shortened from the Kahtoola company trademarked Microspikes brand. As already noted, climbing crampons are not suitable for the trail, and training is needed for safe use.

Don't try the lightweight Yaktrax type--they're fine on pavement but they'll break on the first sharp rock.

Microspikes have only been around fewer than twenty years and are a nice innovation for snow hikers. I'd never heard of them when I hiked the PCT. Now I have a pair and really like them for short trips, but I don't think I'd carry them on the PCT--too heavy for the benefit. I do a lot of high snowfield hiking in CO, and felt very comfortable on the PCT (with one memorable exception on Mt San Jacinto down in the desert, and a scrambling detour took care of that). Through the Sierra Nevada and Cascades, I don't remember a place where a slip would be fatal, just a "Damn it now I have to hike back up" scenario. (I felt comfortable self-arresting with pole tips there and never used the the ice axe--but it was the best latrine tool in the world.)

[colorado_rob]

I would wait to see how this snow year goes along the PCT before you make any gear decisions, plus when is your start date? This would factor in as well.

IF it indeed looks like last year (very heavy snow year), then sure, a pair of Microspikes might be really handy. I doubt if many PCT hikers ever carry full crampons, but if I had hiked it last year, I might have carried my aluminum ones, a pair of Grivel Airtech Lights, like these

https://www.amazon.com/GRIVEL-Light-...air+tech+light

These are slightly better than microspikes, and only a couple ounces heavier. But yeah, they are expensive.

I have a heirarchy of traction devices, as follows:

REALLY casual (easy) occasional snow fields to climb/cross, I use a pair of Yaktrak-pros, 7 ounces, if you religiously avoid walking on rocks, they will hold up for a reasonable time, and can be repaird in the field (using zip-ties, which I carry a few of)

For a bit tougher terrain, on slopes up to about 25-30 degrees (pretty steep) and fairly hard, old snow, I use microspikes, generally without an ice axe, as I feel my trekking pole would give me a reasonable chance of self arrest if I fall.

Tougher terrain, up to maybe 40 degrees (damn steep!) and hard snow mixed with some ice, I'd use my Grivel aluminum crampons with my camp UL ice axe (9 ounces)

Most anything harder, 40-60 degree slopes (pucker steep!), including mild ice climbing, my full stainless steel crampons with BD raven pro ice axe

Full on ice climbing, a pair of technical ice climbing crampons with ice tools

As others have said, if you do carry an Axe, it behooves you to learn how to use it, and even then, I'd consider taping the sharp edge of the Adze (the little shovel thing) for safety. We do this in our more beginner mountaineering courses in Colorado (I teach a lot of these courses) . Self arrest is done with the pick (the sharp point opposite the adze), with the adze tucked against your body (hence why I would tape it).

[AllDownhillFromHere]

i've only hiked in spikes, and they're awesome on slippery terrain, not so good on sheet ice crossing slabs. For that I think you'd want to either a) find another route or b) use crampons. The Katoola K10 is supposed to be a good entry level crampon that also adapts to regular boots (not the big beefy ice climbing boots). I was going to pick some up after reading Yogi's book where she swears by them.

This doesn't really answer your question. You should try some snow hiking this winter, just to get a feel for it.

[colorado_rob]

By the way, all of the crampons I listed in my earlier post, EXCEPT the technical ice climbing ones, fit on regular shoes, trail runners, light boots, whatever you have. I use my Grivel aluminum ones on my trail running shoes all the time, and of course Microspikes as well (depending on the slope and snow hardness).

[Another Kevin]

I have a heirarchy of traction devices, as follows:

Really good explanation!

A few quibbles.

Yaktrax break. That's all there is to it. I use Microspikes even around town.

Does the PCT in spring not get mixed-ice-and-rock conditions? We get that so much around here that I wouldn't use that CAMP USA axe or the aluminium crampons. The sandstone would eat them. So in tough terrain here, I'm already in BD Contact crampons with my Raven axe.

The Contact crampons are strap-on, "any boot" crampons, but the bindings do not feel secure in trail runners, so I wear stiffer boots. Most often, by the time I'm bringing them out, I'm wearing my Sorel pac boots anyway.

I need gaiters with crampons. I seem to be constitutionally unable to avoid snagging a front point in a trouser leg.
I stop short of technical ice climbing.

If you need more than spikes, then you need an ice axe. If you need an ice axe, you need training in how to use it. If you've had the training, your instructor will have told you what you need and you won't be asking here. If you haven't had the training, get it. Your instructor will tell you what you need in the way of equipment.

[gwschenk]

With good boots and an axe you don't really need crampons or "spikes" for hiking a trail. You can kick good steps with boots, or cut steps with the axe if the snow is a bit harder.

Of course, boots are out of style nowadays.

[peakbagger]

A few comments on microspikes

Both Kahtoolas and Hillsounds (the ones that seem to hold up the best) have to be sized correctly. Ideally the rubber needs to be up past the wide spot of the sole of the boot. If its sits too low the rubber and the links can get pinched between a rock and the sole and get damaged. Hillsound has velcro strap above the top of the foot that can snug up the fit. Ideally the chains should fit snug up against the sole of the boot rather than hanging down loose. Its best to bring the boot to the store and try out a few sizes to find the best fit. The Velcro strap also keep you from losing a spike. Its quite easy when heading downhill with kahtoolas for one to catch on something and by the time you notice it, you are far down the trail. There are many orphaned Kahtoolas that appear along the trails in the whites. This doesn't happen with Hillsounds.

IMHO The Hillsound trail crampon works better on ice than the the standard Kahtoola microspikes. The Hillsound's have short points that dig into ice that are tied to a plate. The Kahtoolas have small spikes but they tend to roll out of the way making for dicier ice traction. The trade off is that Hillsound's will tend to ball up with snow slightly earlier than Kahtoolas. It not a major difference but enough to notice. Balling is always worse with spikes that do not fit well and are hanging loose. Note the spikes at best are a 1/2 inch long great for morning boilerplate but if you have afternoon slush, the spikes arent long enough to hit anything solid.

Hillsound offers several variations and its easy to get the wrong one. The best variation is the Trail Crampon https://www.hillsound.com/products/trail-crampon. The Freestep is Kahtoola lookalike and the Trail Crampon Ultra has less traction than the standard Trail Crampon.

There are plenty of cheap knock offs of Kahtoolas, generally you get what you pay for and that applies. Usually the rubber doesnt hold up and the chains rip them out. Not worth the savings if they strand you.

[Zea]

A few comments on microspikes

Hillsound offers several variations and its easy to get the wrong one. The best variation is the Trail Crampon https://www.hillsound.com/products/trail-crampon. The Freestep is Kahtoola lookalike and the Trail Crampon Ultra has less traction than the standard Trail Crampon.

Any reason why you say the Ultra's have less traction than the regular? I bought a pair last year for my wife and got them specifically because they had an extra few spikes, and the same length spikes as the standards. The person I talked to at the store told me they'd have better traction.

[Malto]

One big reason that you are getting such varied answers is there is a huge variation in the snow year to year. In high snow years such as 2017, 2011 and even early 2010 I believe you would find most hikers had microspikes. In low snow years such as 2012-2016 you could get by without anything as long as you don't go into the Sierra early.

[nsherry61]

. . . What should I get to cross the snowy Sierra (in case I need it), crampons or spikes. . .

Microspikes or the Hillsound trail crampons (pretty much the same as Kahtoola microspikes) are, by a huge margin, the traction devices of choice most talked about and reveered by PCT thru-hikers on the internet. They also work great in a wide variety of conditions expected in the high Sierras. In combination with trekking poles or an ice axe they are probably ample traction, while being easier to walk in and lighter to carry than crampons.

. . . can someone explain to me the difference and with which one I may be on the safer side. . .

Microspikes and Hillsound trail crampons (not "real" crampons) are basically chains with plates of little spikes attached that are rubber banded to your shoes or boots with big thick stretchy silicone rubber band harnesses. They are relatively light, super flexible and fantastic for traction in most conditions in snow and granular ice. The spikes are short enough that in steep fresh snow they may grab deep enough for adequate traction as the snow layers slide on each other - not conditions you would expect to encounter on the PCT. The spikes also rotate a bit as you walk on them since they are not rigid which can be a problem on sheets of hard water ice where they provide some traction, but can be a bit sketchy if it gets very steep at all, again, not a likely issue on the PCT during the hiking season.

Crampons (traditionally) are basically plates of spikes that you strap onto the bottom of you boots. Because the plates are rigid the spikes can be a lot longer and not roll when you walk on them. So, they are much more stable and can bite much deeper. They also weigh significantly more than microspikes and the like. Crampons are more finicky to fit to your footwear and take longer to put on at take off (in most cases).

As for safety, just like driving a dump truck is probably safer than driving a Honda Civic, the crampons would be "safer" but also, probably significant overkill just like commuting in traffic with a dump truck would not really be better than a Honda Civic. And frankly, because the microspikes (and the like) are lighter and easier to put on and take off, you may wear them more often, and thus the lighter and "less safe" option might provide you more safety in the long run.

[Venchka]

REI may not sell what you need.
There are other vendors.
Wayne

[Geo.]

Took crampons and axe for my 'thru'. Could have got by without the added weight of crampons and got rid of them when I could. The axe saw me through ok. Would still take the axe if I made the hike again. Used it to cut steps on Forester. Used it for arrest once, and it was also a good 'prop' at times. Also came in very handy for digging latrine holes. I'd likely take microspikes rather than crampons if I thought I needed more than just the axe.