shelter etiquette

[opfldc]

planning to hike the GSMNP in a few weeks... have been putting off that section since I really dont like staying in shelters due to the rodents...have had them crawling on me before in shelters and cant stand it..also i never get a good nights sleep in the shelters...my question is whether it is against shelter etiquette for me to sleep in a 1 person tent without putting it up....I just want to use it as a barrier with something to keep the netting off of my face..thanks

[soumodeler]

As long as it doesn't take up more space than your pad, I see no problem with it. I know some of the shelters have wooden boards dividing each space. Inside that board you can do whatever you want as far as I'm concerned

[Sarcasm the elf]

I would caution against the practice simply because setting a tent up in a heavily used shelter puts it at risk of the shelter mice chewing holes in it.

[Crossup]

Hmmm, sounds like some trail magic involving mousetraps might be in order(capture and release for those who feel the world needs more of the whiskered varmints). I don't believe that bears are a real threat but I'd rather take my chances in my tent than in a 3 sided shelter with no way out, so I don't stay in them. No doubt when the weather gets bad enough, I'll be grateful to have them even if I dont sleep as well.

[tflaris]

Last year when we passed through the GSMNP and slept in the shelters we didn’t experience any rodent issues.

I can see the appeal of just going Shelter to Shelter. Less setup/breakdown time. Some protection from wind and rain.

But....

YMMV


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[MuddyWaters]

...my question is whether it is against shelter etiquette for me to sleep in a 1 person tent without putting it up....I just want to use it as a barrier with something to keep the netting off of my face..thanks

Perfectly fine to use your net tent as bivy. Wear cap ,brim will keep net off face. Dont consume more than your share of space, or bother person 6" from you though....

[rocketsocks]

And only if the shelter is full. Not allowed if there are spots left.

spots is a relative word.

[HooKooDooKu]

spots is a relative word.

You can quit trying to split hairs, because this time of year, the shelters are very unlikely to be anywhere close to full (except for weekends). So even if you had a legitimate thru hiker permit, you would still not be allowed to set up a tent at the shelter.

[HooKooDooKu]

Now if you do want to split hairs, according to "the letter of the law" as specified in the GSMNP conpendium of rules and regulations,

The use of tents at shelters is prohibited...

. There ia an exemption that follows allowing thru hikers so set up a tent under certain condition in the immediate area around the shelter.

But a strict legal reading of the rules would prohibit a tent inside the shelter under all circumstances.

[HooKooDooKu]

planning to hike the GSMNP in a few weeks... have been putting off that section since I really dont like staying in shelters due to the rodents...have had them crawling on me before in shelters and cant stand it..

I must admit to at least once feeling a mouse running across my sleeping bag at a GSMNP shelter... but it has been the exception and not the norm.
I believe you will have less of a problem with mice bothering you if you sleep with your head towards the front of the shelter rather than towards the back. I've seldom ever seen a mouse in one of the shelters running across a platform. When I've seen them, they are usually along the walls, under the tables, or on the framing timber.

[MuddyWaters]

.

But a strict legal reading of the rules would prohibit a tent inside the shelter under all circumstances.

Even in a pack? Thats a circumstance.
What if you use it for your pillow in shelter?

Intent of any rule is only to prohibit erected tents. As thru hikers are specfically allowed to erect tents.

If you want to wrap up in your tent as part of sleep system, as the OP inquired, theres nothing intended to prevent that, as long as do it inside the shelter.



The intent of the no tenting rules, are meant to discourage impact from camping. However tents dont cause damage, people do. But cowboy camping on a groundsheet is not illegal.... You are required to have a permit, and a reservation at backountry site You are prohibited from tenting at shelter , you are not.....required to stay in shelter however. You are not prohibited from camping at the shelter. They meant this....they didnt write it. Assumed tenting and camping were same thing...not to hikers.

Technically, you could use bivy and sleep on ground . Technically....a bivy isnt a tent, etc. Verbage in the compendium and addendums, is all that matters legally, regardless of what is bantered about elsewhere .

[HooKooDooKu]

how bout a tarp?

The only place the compendium specifically mentions tarps is in the sections regarding front country campsites.

However, given that the compendium specifically states that hammocks are subject to the same rules and regulations as tents, I suspect that a park ranger would treat a tarp the same as a tent.

So at the end of the day, it's not so much what the rules "say" but the way the park rangers interpret the rules... if you disagree with their interpretation, it's likely going to cost you money to take the matter to court to over rule the ranger's interpretations.

And in any case, you can be sure that if people start trying to split hairs like this and use tarps to circumnavigate the rules... the rules will simply change. The current compendium was last updated in 2014. So it shouldn't be much longer before the next version of the compendium comes out.

[Slo-go'en]

On a practical note, it could be really hard to get into and out of your tent "bivy", especially if the shelter happens to be full. Those shelters are double bunkers and have very little head room to begin with. You have to be able to slide in feet first.
I believe the little "personal space" dividing bars have all been removed. At least there weren't any in the shelters I stayed at. Someone finally figure out that without those bars, at least 2 more people per shelf could squeeze in there.
In any event, sleep head out and not next to a wall. Mice tend to work the perimeter. Your all bundled up in a sleeping bag anyway. Use a head net if your that paranoid of a little mouse. Since your now required to hang food outside the shelter in a bear proof manor and your encouraged to do cooking and eating outside the shelter, the mouse problem inside the shelter is much reduced from years gone by.

[JC13]

We went through in July, only saw one mouse in a shelter. He shredded a bunch of paper for nesting I assume on the top shelf of the shelter. No packs or persons were harmed or alarmed. Granted we were moving pretty fast and only stayed in the park 4 nights, we got slowed down by some overuse injuries or we would have been out in 3. I think Double Spring Spring Gap was the one with the mouse.

[Seatbelt]

planning to hike the GSMNP in a few weeks... have been putting off that section since I really dont like staying in shelters due to the rodents...have had them crawling on me before in shelters and cant stand it..also i never get a good nights sleep in the shelters...my question is whether it is against shelter etiquette for me to sleep in a 1 person tent without putting it up....I just want to use it as a barrier with something to keep the netting off of my face..thanks

Since you are not going yet for a few weeks, I would say the chances are good that the mice will not be active then. I never saw any mice in the Smokies in the winter, I sure did in the Spring/Summer tho.

[tdoczi]

As long as it doesn't take up more space than your pad, I see no problem with it. I know some of the shelters have wooden boards dividing each space. Inside that board you can do whatever you want as far as I'm concerned

which shelter would that be?

[MuddyWaters]

which shelter would that be?

I think all the new ones have a small strip 1/4" high delineating spots

[Alligator]

Just a reminder this is in SF and that question pertains to the etiquette of using a tent as a cover/bivy inside the shelter. Posts slipping into discussions about the outside rules will be deleted.

And to head off some grumbling, if you don't like your posts being strictly edited, don't post into the SF forum. Thank you.

[Ethesis]

Since you are not going yet for a few weeks, I would say the chances are good that the mice will not be active then. I never saw any mice in the Smokies in the winter, I sure did in the Spring/Summer tho.

Section hikes this time of year I haven’t had mice or much other company in shelters.

When in a bubble with 40+ people at a shelter is a lot different than after season when it is just my wife and I.

It is like an entirely different world.

[tdoczi]

I think all the new ones have a small strip 1/4" high delineating spots

that makes sense, i was more picturing like private walled off areas

didnt see any such strips at any of the smokies shelters i stayed at that, i dont beleive