Alas Poor Thermarest

[Tipi Walter]

Okay boys, another one bites the dust. This is about my 10th or 12th delamination in the last 40 years sleeping on Thermarest pads.


Zoe dog investigates the sad Fact---welcome to Cascade Designs.


After a couple hours in the sun the pad DOES NOT self heal and instead expands.

I spent last night in the backyard "camping" and preparing for another trip and working out the kinks in my gear. Lucky me this happened before the trip.

[tflaris]

: (


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[Starchild]

Never was happy with self inflators, too much weight for not enough loft. Manual inflating neoair + a inflator (battery or other) is overall lighter and 3x as thick.

[Tipi Walter]

Never was happy with self inflators, too much weight for not enough loft. Manual inflating neoair + a inflator (battery or other) is overall lighter and 3x as thick.

NeoAirs also, like any inflatable, has its own problems---Seam weld leaks, thinner denier fabrics on some models, poor functionality when sitting up (I can feel my butt hitting the ground when sitting upright on fully inflated NeoAir) etc. Pet pad peeve: NEVER want to feel the ground underneath.

But I do take the smallest lightest NeoAir they make and keep it in my pack just in case I'm on a trip and my Thermy inflatable does the above.

[Starchild]

...But I do take the smallest lightest NeoAir they make and keep it in my pack just in case I'm on a trip and my Thermy inflatable does the above.

How did I know you would do this

[blw2]

Never was happy with self inflators, too much weight for not enough loft. Manual inflating neoair + a inflator (battery or other) is overall lighter and 3x as thick.

I recently bought an air pad and don't care for it so far. Noisy and just don't care for the bouncy air mattress feel. Need to try it more to give it a fair shake, but I'm thinking of getting another self inflator. I find them more comfortable and less noisy. I gave my oldest thermrest bought in the mid 1990's to my son to use in scouts....It's a 1 inch thick rectangular but I don't know the model....one patch made along the way for a pinhole leak, just a dab of repair cement, and my next one that I bought some time later, a Trail Pro, is a bit heavy, being bigger and thicker...but very comfy. Thinking of trying a "torso" small or maybe Xsmall as a compromise to save weight while maintaining comfort.

Regarding failures, I figure any elastomeric material will oxidize over time, get more brittle.... adhesives too...... functions of heat, time, contaminates such as sweat, oils, dirt, oxygen, number of stress cycles, .....

[nsherry61]

. . . Noisy and just don't care for the bouncy air mattress feel. . .

In recent years there are getting to be some good alternatives that address those two very issues without adding weight and volume.

I seem to keep coming back to the Sea-to-Summit pads because they are surprisingly comfortable and not bouncy and not noisy compared to most alternatives. Their whole structure and fabric is unique in the industry.

Also, the less expensive quilted style inflatable pads like the new 2017 REI Flash aren't very bouncy and are made with relatively quieter shell fabric. I think the technology is similar in the Klymit V pads and the Outdoorsman Lab pads?

The Nemo Tensor is back in the $150 range, like the S2S pads, but is thicker than the S2S and quieter than a Termarest NeoXlite and not as bouncy as many of the thicker and/or longitudinally baffled pads like many Big Agnes pads.


Of the pads I've used, I like the NeoAir X-Lite except for the noise which really isn't all that bad for me especially on the newer models. I like the S2S except it is a couple oz heavier and not quite as warm. I like the REI Flash et al., but find them not as warm or as robust as the NeoAir X-lite or S2S. I like the BA pads except for their bounciness and the fact that I've had higher valve failure rate on the BA than either the NeoAir or the S2S. Also, the NeoAir X-therm is a fair bit quieter than the X-Lite, quite a bit warmer, and only a couple oz heavier. Finally, although the Nemo Tensor is comfortable like the X-lite and much quieter. But, Nemo's claim of warmth to 20*F in the Tensor insulated model is bull. It's weight is similar to my X-lite but it is not nearly as warm as either my NeoAir X-lite or my S2S, so I don't really have a use for it.

[blw2]

In recent years there are getting to be some good alternatives that address those two very issues without adding weight and volume.

I seem to keep coming back to the Sea-to-Summit pads because they are surprisingly comfortable and not bouncy and not noisy compared to most alternatives. Their whole structure and fabric is unique in the industry.

Also, the less expensive quilted style inflatable pads like the new 2017 REI Flash aren't very bouncy and are made with relatively quieter shell fabric. I think the technology is similar in the Klymit V pads and the Outdoorsman Lab pads?

The Nemo Tensor is back in the $150 range, like the S2S pads, but is thicker than the S2S and quieter than a Termarest NeoXlite and not as bouncy as many of the thicker and/or longitudinally baffled pads like many Big Agnes pads.


Of the pads I've used, I like the NeoAir X-Lite except for the noise which really isn't all that bad for me especially on the newer models. I like the S2S except it is a couple oz heavier and not quite as warm. I like the REI Flash et al., but find them not as warm or as robust as the NeoAir X-lite or S2S. I like the BA pads except for their bounciness and the fact that I've had higher valve failure rate on the BA than either the NeoAir or the S2S. Also, the NeoAir X-therm is a fair bit quieter than the X-Lite, quite a bit warmer, and only a couple oz heavier. Finally, although the Nemo Tensor is comfortable like the X-lite and much quieter. But, Nemo's claim of warmth to 20*F in the Tensor insulated model is bull. It's weight is similar to my X-lite but it is not nearly as warm as either my NeoAir X-lite or my S2S, so I don't really have a use for it.

The Nemo Tensor is the one I went with for that very reason.....but still it's an air mattress

[Leo L.]

It seems Thermarest has some troubles recently...
But why do yours break at the head, mine (three total who failed) in the shoulder area?

[Tipi Walter]

It seems Thermarest has some troubles recently...
But why do yours break at the head, mine (three total who failed) in the shoulder area?

There's only a couple inches difference in location between your bulge and my bulge. Maybe it's National Hernia Month???

[rafe]

I've had two Thermarest pads, both still quite OK. The older one is from 1990. Not as many "bag nights" as Tipi's, but both well-used.

[SwathHiker]

they had some Klymits on massdrop


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[saltysack]

Looks like a built in pillow.....you paid extra for that!


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[Tipi Walter]

IMPORTANT UPDATE
I came up with a plan to rebuild my dead Thermarest.

P1000056.JPG
First I studied WHY the fabric pulled away from the foam.

P1000060.JPG
Then I pulled it apart to repair each section in order from top to bottom.

P1000058.JPG
Then I laid it out properly for a hot steam glue repair. Results forthcoming.

[Greenlight]

Did you come up with a diagnosis? Some have used the term hernia. Breaking the pad into quadrants, we could break it down into "hyper-inflation induced delamination hernia of the upper right quadrant."

Prognosis: DNR on file, call curbside pickup.

IMPORTANT UPDATE
I came up with a plan to rebuild my dead Thermarest.

P1000056.JPG
First I studied WHY the fabric pulled away from the foam.

P1000060.JPG
Then I pulled it apart to repair each section in order from top to bottom.

P1000058.JPG
Then I laid it out properly for a hot steam glue repair. Results forthcoming.

[Tipi Walter]

Did you come up with a diagnosis? Some have used the term hernia. Breaking the pad into quadrants, we could break it down into "hyper-inflation induced delamination hernia of the upper right quadrant."

Prognosis: DNR on file, call curbside pickup.

Diagnosis? Your assessment stands and has become the official nomenclature for all future medical field reports---although there is some disagreement regarding the "hyper-inflation" diagnosis. "Normal-inflation" may be the more correct term.

Prognosis: Dying and soon to be completely dead---cremate at next available opportunity.

[Franco]

"After a couple hours in the sun the pad DOES NOT self heal and instead expands."
I suspect that a lot of delamination problems are from the sun hitting the mats.

[Tipi Walter]

"After a couple hours in the sun the pad DOES NOT self heal and instead expands."
I suspect that a lot of delamination problems are from the sun hitting the mats.

My pads never get direct sunlight, ever. And if inside a warming tent during the day I always open the air valve. None of my previous Thermarest delaminations have been due to direct sunlight. I just don't leave them in the sun . . . or inside a car . . . THIS pad on the other hand has been sacrificed to the Gear Demon and no amount of direct sunlight will hurt it.

[Kaptainkriz]

Looks similar to old GM headliner delam....

[Tipi Walter]

Years ago I emailed Thermarest about the problem and they said it's due to "overuse" and "body oils". Uh, okay. I do live on these pads. But I emit no fluids