Have we all been brainwashed into using tents?

[nsherry61]

we are brainwashed into living in houses instead of tents

No. Done that. Houses are drier and warmer/cooler and have lots of very pleasant creature comforts. Sure, a tent is okay and fun for a short time and great when moving and carrying everything on your back, but long term . . . no thanks.

That being said, I suggest we are brainwashed into the types of houses we choose, or at least heavily influenced by history and culture instead of just practicality or comfort or aesthetics.

[Alligator]

What I didn't read here until now is, that a tent, if all doors closed, will add several degrees of warmth for sleeping.
Not sure if a tarp would add the same?
So, even if the tarp itself might be slightly lighter than a tent, you might be forced to add some additional insulation to the sleep system.
Which would render any weight advantage of a tarp over a tent irrelevant.

Regarding animals:
I'm doing a lot of cowboy camping, but the only animal I ever noticed to approach me was a mouse that hid in a tiny gap right under my pad in a frosty night.
But then, we don't have any dangerouse animals here, and in the desert I'm hiking in winter when ist too cold for snakes.

That's an interesting point about tents. So in ordinary winter conditions I don't mind using my Mega Light pyramid tent and I also have a full winter tent. Both are warmer closed up, I'd go as far as saying ten degrees vs say inside an AT shelter. If the tent has a mesh roof and sides, which I have and have had, not nearly as much. Depends on how high the sidewalls go and how tight and low the fly pitches and how much mesh the tent has. All the mesh on three season tents I don't really think you have much of a temperature advantage. In the worst of conditions, I pitch my tarp in pyramid configuration and the opening isn't large and the edges are staked on the ground.

To compare in detail you'd have to go into a comparison of people's sleep systems. To capitalize on the few degrees of warmth, you'd have to be able to reconstitute your pack list and say I made this change and I am accounting for 3 degrees of warmth from my tent by bringing a lighter long john top and saving one ounce. I do understand what you are saying and I can dial it in like that. I don't think everyone necessarily has the gear to do that or even the inclination to. They might just have a 20 degree bag. You have to factor it all in then and you run into different questions like what do you do in the evening? Do you jump in your bag or hang out in camp? Or, a tent may be slightly warmer for sleeping, but a slightly warmer clothes system is warmer to hike in, should that be necessary.

It also should be considered that a tent can be downright hot in the summer, with little air coming in at all, but under a tarp, air could be coming in from all four directions.

I personally do think you get a little more closer to nature. I spend a lot of time just chilling under my tarp. Cooking dinner, reading books. I'm in my T-rest chair relaxing and there's nothing blocking my vision. If I hear a bird, I can find it. A chipmunk or rabbit scrabbling around I can see it. A deer, bear, or stalker dude, I got four ways to run you beauty queens and kings will still be fumbling with your tent door. I'll be gone, 'Squatch can keep my quilt for a scarf and chow down on my tofu jerky. You hanging folks are 'Squatch pinatas, how do I get out of this thing again...Bam Bam Bam you been hit with a tree trunk 'cause that's what 'Squatch uses to hit his pinatas with. Privacy works both ways, 'Squatch can't see in and you can't see out! But 'Squatch can smell your beef jerky.

[clusterone]

Were you car camping on Citico Creek or were you backpacking in the Citico wilderness?

I had a snake come into my tent vestibule last summer and one time had a copperhead coiled up at the tent door around midnight after leaving the campfire.

No, but did have the family out for the weekend! Camped at the double campsite before North Fork Bridge. My girls love that spot, mostly for the water access. We hiked almost all the way to the other end of NF, then ended up having to bail as my oldest and wife got hit by a many yellow jackets. Wife had to use epi pen. Good 10 miles that day with kids and no lunch break. They are 9 and 8 years old...what can I say, hard core little girls! I had three packs on the way out, small kids pack, my zpack, and wife's osprey hanging on my neck. Nothing compared to what you carry, but the 60lbs was an extra bonus experience; as if the use of the epi pen was not enough.

[Leo L.]

That's an interesting point about tents. So in ordinary winter conditions I don't mind using my Mega Light pyramid tent and I also have a full winter tent. Both are warmer closed up, I'd go as far as saying ten degrees vs say inside an AT shelter. If the tent has a mesh roof and sides, which I have and have had, not nearly as much. Depends on how high the sidewalls go and how tight and low the fly pitches and how much mesh the tent has. All the mesh on three season tents I don't really think you have much of a temperature advantage.
...

True!
This came to my mind during my last weekend overnight trip. Nasty rainy weather, fresh snow near the mountaintops which I planned to cross.
Setup tent halfway up the mountain, rain had subsided so I left the doors of the tent open. During the night the sky cleared and some wind picked up, I woke up being a bit cold. All I did was closing the doors and it was warm and cosy again.
This is a MSR Hubba Hubba NX, so thats a 3-season tent with lots of mesh, and still, the difference between cowboy style and closed tent doors might be something like 5 degrees. If it was a real winter tent, the difference might be bigger, maybe closer to 10 degrees.
If I had planned for cowboy camping this weekend, I would have brought my big down bag - which is 0.5kg heavier than my 3-seasons bag, and a bivvy bag and use my poncho tarp-style. Not sure I I had any weight advantage then, but sure less comfort.

So for me ist not about private love or personal preference, but weight efficiency, to prefer a tent above a tarp.
This only for my local hikes here in the mountains, where nights are chilly, even in summer.
I've never been on the AT, so I can't speak for that.

[cmoulder]

Simply knocking the wind down totally changes things.

When it's windy a pyramid pitched tight to the deck beats a 3-season, 2-wall with mesh inner every time if the fly doesn't reach the ground.

With a mid, just need enough hi-low venting (very little) for a bit of fresh air circulation. Very scary waking up gasping for air when snow has blocked the lower vent.

Duomid with snow around perimeter.jpg

[foodbag]

I used a tarp for 600 miles on the AT in 1999. The experience was not for me and I have not used a tarp since then. I like a floor and bug netting.

I'm OK with tent manufacturers making a good profit. If there was no money to be made, no tents would be made....

[SwathHiker]

snakes


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[MuddyWaters]

I used a tarp for 600 miles on the AT in 1999. The experience was not for me and I have not used a tarp since then. I like a floor and bug netting.

....

You can get floor and Bug netting for many tarps...

A tents rainfly is just a shaped tarp

Wher most us mfgs go wrong, is cant pitch fly first and inner last for setup in rain European mfgs often allow for this

[Leo L.]

...
Wher most us mfgs go wrong, is cant pitch fly first and inner last for setup in rain European mfgs often allow for this

Freestanding tents can be used in this way, you just need a groundcloth with straps+holes to place the end of the poles in them.
Did this with my Salewa Sierra Leone and my MSR Hubba Hubba NX, and while it needs a bit of a thinking and is some fumbling, it really works.
Such a groundcloth can also used to pitch a freestanding tent that its more a tarp than a tent (but true, it will never become a tarp this way).

P1100333.JPGP1100336.JPG

[Tipi Walter]

No, but did have the family out for the weekend! Camped at the double campsite before North Fork Bridge. My girls love that spot, mostly for the water access. We hiked almost all the way to the other end of NF, then ended up having to bail as my oldest and wife got hit by a many yellow jackets. Wife had to use epi pen. Good 10 miles that day with kids and no lunch break. They are 9 and 8 years old...what can I say, hard core little girls! I had three packs on the way out, small kids pack, my zpack, and wife's osprey hanging on my neck. Nothing compared to what you carry, but the 60lbs was an extra bonus experience; as if the use of the epi pen was not enough.

Yes, going up and down the North Fork makes for some tough trekking---but it's beautiful. And I know the spot you guys camped below the NF bridge---I call it the Donner Camps.

Simply knocking the wind down totally changes things.

When it's windy a pyramid pitched tight to the deck beats a 3-season, 2-wall with mesh inner every time if the fly doesn't reach the ground.

With a mid, just need enough hi-low venting (very little) for a bit of fresh air circulation. Very scary waking up gasping for air when snow has blocked the lower vent.

Duomid with snow around perimeter.jpg

These pyramid type tents were first designed by Chouinard to be used in snow as in your pic---with the snow placed around the bottom to keep out spindrift. I used a Chouinard Pyramid back in 1986 and had several significant problems---

** Without snow the wind would catch under the tent and attempt to lift it off the ground like an umbrella. I spent one night holding the edges down in a bad blow.

** Condensation can be terrible because it's a single wall.

** The center pole cuts into user space and often the foot of my sleeping bag would touch the wet inside wall. (The pole can be tilted off center for more room but then you lose strength).

[rafe]

You can get floor and Bug netting for many tarps...

A tents rainfly is just a shaped tarp

By the time you've added floor and bug netting, you might as well go with a Tarptent.

[cmoulder]

Yes, going up and down the North Fork makes for some tough trekking---but it's beautiful. And I know the spot you guys camped below the NF bridge---I call it the Donner Camps.



These pyramid type tents were first designed by Chouinard to be used in snow as in your pic---with the snow placed around the bottom to keep out spindrift. I used a Chouinard Pyramid back in 1986 and had several significant problems---

** Without snow the wind would catch under the tent and attempt to lift it off the ground like an umbrella. I spent one night holding the edges down in a bad blow.

** Condensation can be terrible because it's a single wall.

** The center pole cuts into user space and often the foot of my sleeping bag would touch the wet inside wall. (The pole can be tilted off center for more room but then you lose strength).

For me these are infrequent minor annoyances.

I use poles in the inverted V configuration which does not interfere with interior volume.

duomid winter tent.jpg

[brswan]

I sleep better knowing bugs and snakes won't get me. Call me a sissy, but I can sleep at ease.

[MuddyWaters]

By the time you've added floor and bug netting, you might as well go with a Tarptent.

not if you want flexibility.

flexibility to set up tarp alone in daytime to wait out rain



or flexibility to use with a bivy, a bug net inner, or just a groundsheet.

[saltysack]

For me these are infrequent minor annoyances.

I use poles in the inverted V configuration which does not interfere with interior volume.

duomid winter tent.jpg

How long are your poles in this configuration? Assume you hade the connector piece. Ron sent me the pole connector for the single pole set up to the front but can’t get a solid pitch so far.


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[Venchka]

You can get floor and Bug netting for many tarps...

A tents rainfly is just a shaped tarp

Wher most us mfgs go wrong, is cant pitch fly first and inner last for setup in rain European mfgs often allow for this

USA MADE TarpTents set up as a fly / inner combined unit a la Hilleberg. The fly and inner body can be used separately. Footprint not needed Quite versatile.
Wayne


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[cmoulder]

I sleep better knowing bugs and snakes won't get me. Call me a sissy, but I can sleep at ease.

No bugs or snakes at 3°F.

[cmoulder]

How long are your poles in this configuration? Assume you hade the connector piece. Ron sent me the pole connector for the single pole set up to the front but can’t get a solid pitch so far.


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I use Ruta Locura pole jacks and I don't know the length but they are at least a foot long, and I use them with REI (Komperdell) Powerlock carbon fiber trekking poles. The baskets are removable so I modified the pole jacks to hold the baskets when pitching in snow. This was my first version with aluminum pole jacks.
jack with pin out.jpgPole jack field test 02.jpg

[brswan]

No bugs or snakes at 3°F.

As a warm blooded Floridian, I do not camp when it is possible for snow to be made!

Now you can call me a sissy...

[nsherry61]

I sleep better knowing bugs and snakes won't get me. Call me a sissy, but I can sleep at ease.

As a warm blooded Floridian, I do not camp when it is possible for snow to be made!

Now you can call me a sissy...

Alright already, your a sissy.