curious about speed?

[HooKooDooKu]

...I thought that most hikers were able to do a 3-4 mph average...

4 mph is about the fastest that an average adult can walk. Anything much faster and you have to ramp up to a jog or trot.
(If you are walking, you ALWAYS have at least one foot on the ground... but if you are jogging, then at some point, both feet are in the air).

[rafe]

... I thought that most hikers were able to do a 3-4 mph average while I could only do a 2-2.5 average. I now see that many other hikers are in the same range that I am so I don't feel so slow anymore.

3-4 mph would be for nice sidewalks in suburbia, with no pack, for a breezy morning stroll.

Most of the AT is nothing like that. 3400 vertical feet of elevation change per day, on average, and a surface that is anything but smooth. Carrying 30 lbs. on your back, and subject to crap weather, nutrition, diet, hygiene, sleep, etc.

In distance hiking mode, I'm often passed by bushy-tailed day hikers and weekenders. They can afford a short, intense burst of effort during their 48 hour hiatus from civilization. They'll have a nice meal and hot shower as soon as they get home. Distance hikers have to conserve energy (etc.) for the long haul.

[Malto]

I agree with you and I never had any intention to try to go faster for exactly the reasons you mention... I want to enjoy the trail and going faster would take away from that. What I meant is that I thought that most hikers were able to do a 3-4 mph average while I could only do a 2-2.5 average. I now see that many other hikers are in the same range that I am so I don't feel so slow anymore.

I am one of the "fastest" hikers out there and I only average 3 mph over the course of the day. And that is with almost no stopping. So no, there are VERY few 3-4 mph hikers out there, not for any distance other than the last few mile into town for food. 2-2.5 mph is likely above average.

[Emerson Bigills]

For me, just depends on the trail - elevation gain/loss, rocks, roots, rain, climbing or hiking, etc. etc. I have averaged 3 mph and also been below 1.5 mph. Can be frustrating, but the trail will dictate how fast you can go. Some hikers are faster than others, but the trail conditions apply to everyone. You eventually learn to just roll with what the trail provides.

[Another Kevin]

The old rule of thumb I learned decades ago was that a hiker can expect to be able to do 2mph, and then add an hour for every 1,000' in elevation climb.
I've found that to be a good starting point... and over the years, as I've gotten more experience and gear has gotten lighter, I found I can do better than that...

I'm personally a little slower than guidebook time, or at least I budget that way.
My rough rule of thumb (summer, reasonably good trail, no special challenges) is "30 minutes to the mile, 40 minutes for every thousand feet of elevation change (up OR down)." Then add time for rock scrambling, stream crossing, bushwhacking, mud, snow, whatever special challenges there might be.

So, "it depends."
A really thick bushwhack might take an hour to go 200 yards.


And I've had it take me 5-6 hours to go 5 miles in this sort of stuff, with four guys taking turns breaking trail, and a couple of switches back and forth between snowshoes/poles and crampons/ice axes. (Then again, I don't think most people on this site hike in that sort of stuff. Maybe one in ten are that crazy?) At least the wind was still that day. The facemasks and goggles could stay in the packs. Which were way too heavy. Winter gear simply is way too heavy, and in deep winter you can't cut corners.

[dreamweaver21]

AT with a 25ish pound pack is about 2mph for the day for me. If I wake up in the woods and plan to sleep in the woods that night I usually walk 10-12 hours in the day and make 20-24 miles in good weather. Sometimes a bit more and often a bit less. All day average including breaks is 1.8 - 2.1 mph for me. Poor weather and significant elevation changes slow me down even more.

Out west with just a camel pack and no intention of sleeping outside, I could make 3mph pretty easily.

[Leo L.]

When planning a local mutiday trip, I calculate 4km (2.5 miles) horizontal per hour plus 300m (1000 feet) elevation gain per hour. Then add 1/2hr break every 3 hrs walk.
As most of our local hikes go pretty much steep and high up mountains, the elevation thing is more important than the horizontal travel distance.
When just on a daytrip, I may cut the calculated time to descend into half of the ascent time. Carrying the full multiday pack I'll take the same time up and down.
When there is some scrambling to be done on the mountain (and many times there is) I'd add another half or full hour just to do the scramble.

On my desert hikes the calculation might be a bit similar - but as there are poor paths only, or just pure nature with lots of boulder scrambling, thistle whacking and other unusual obstacles, I do not calculate, but just estimate time and distance, by very closely looking at Google Earth.

[Recalc]

So let's be clear, when we put a number on "speed of walking" do we include breaks or not?

On a typical summer hiking day I might walk anywhere from 10-12 hours, but 20-30% of that time is spent on breaks -- a relatively long one for lunch, and several short breaks along the way.

Although miles per day including breaks etc is the metric relevant to this discussion and daily planning, moving miles per hour interests me. Just completed the SHT, and would compute how far I could walk in one hour. When I asked myself, "can I make it to campsite X before dark?", this number was used to answer the question.
It was also used as a second opinion in self-assesment. For example, if the distance between two campsites was 2 hours apart and it took me 3 with terrain looking the same, a reassessment was forced. That could be a wakeup call to drink more water or take an extra break.
Moving miles per hour is also my personal GPS. For example, I would mentally calculate the walking time to the next spur trail. If it was 80 minutes and a turn shows itself in 50 minutes, it is treated with suspicion and the maps come out.

[jjozgrunt]

So let's be clear, when we put a number on "speed of walking" do we include breaks or not?

Personally speed without including breaks is the only value that means anything. Every day can be different, some days I have combat naps some days I don't, or I might have a longer lunch to dry out gear. I start anywhere between 2.30 and 7am except coming out of towns. As stated it allows you to work out your day, will I reach the next shelter and how long, should I fill up here or do I have enough water to reach the next point? Should reach a certain point/feature in about ? hours.

Including breaks just doesn't make sense to me.

[RangerZ]

My 1.7 MPH planning speed does not include big breaks - lunch, BSing with met hikers, 5 minute pack off breaks that turn into 15/20/30 minute breaks. It does include small breaks for map checks, compulsively recording time/distance, drinks, etc. I figure those are common, the others aren't.

I also do time/distance to next landmark. Nearly drove me crazy on the Laurel Highlands trail with mile markers every mile. "Where is it? Did I miss it? Ah, there it is."

[George]

I do a pretty consistent 2 mph - when I am moving - the non movement time has no consistency

[saltysack]

Except perhaps carrying a 2 yr old on your shoulders.

Which, after 100 yds even is torture, because ive did it.

Making 3 mph on AT while doing it........draw own conclusion.

. Agree....I carried my 20lb jack russell out on the CT in July after he trashed his pads....5 miles on top of a frameless pack wasn’t fun! Can’t imagine making 3 mph....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CassSarahSilvius]

I'll take the 2year old over aluminum frame Alice pack loaded to 75lbs any day... it actually sounds a little UL

[cmoulder]

I do a pretty consistent 2 mph - when I am moving - the non movement time has no consistency

But the clock is still ticking!

When you reach the area you intend to camp for the night you will have covered a certain number of miles that day. Everything that happened after departing the previous night's camp determines the average.

If you want to cover 20 miles (for a food drop, to reach a certain shelter, etc) and also want to spend an hour on a certain mountain top and another hour for lunch and a nap and perhaps two or three 20-minute breaks, that all has got to figure into your planning for the day. Even in high summer you're probably not going to be strolling out of camp at the crack of 10am to pull that off.

If one gives these things any thought at all, that falls under the category "planning," even though plans might change during the day.

[AllDownhillFromHere]

...In distance hiking mode, I'm often passed by bushy-tailed day hikers and weekenders. They can afford a short, intense burst of effort during their 48 hour hiatus from civilization. They'll have a nice meal and hot shower as soon as they get home. Distance hikers have to conserve energy (etc.) for the long haul.

I found the opposite, I usually smoke weekenders, and we used to make a point of waiting until there was an uphill, before breaking out the gorp and passing other people, uphill, while eating it. And this was back when a 40lb pack was light. It always seemed like a combination of being out of shape + having no particular rush to get anywhere, where the LD hiker is in constant miles mode.

[Tipi Walter]

. Agree....I carried my 20lb jack russell out on the CT in July after he trashed his pads....5 miles on top of a frameless pack wasn’t fun! Can’t imagine making 3 mph....

Good pic. Reminds me of a trip I did when my backpacking dog Shunka got sick and I had to carry him out---a 50 lb dog along with my 65 lb pack---

I'm personally a little slower than guidebook time, or at least I budget that way.
My rough rule of thumb (summer, reasonably good trail, no special challenges) is "30 minutes to the mile, 40 minutes for every thousand feet of elevation change (up OR down)." Then add time for rock scrambling, stream crossing, bushwhacking, mud, snow, whatever special challenges there might be.

So, "it depends."
A really thick bushwhack might take an hour to go 200 yards.


And I've had it take me 5-6 hours to go 5 miles in this sort of stuff, with four guys taking turns breaking trail, and a couple of switches back and forth between snowshoes/poles and crampons/ice axes. (Then again, I don't think most people on this site hike in that sort of stuff. Maybe one in ten are that crazy?) At least the wind was still that day. The facemasks and goggles could stay in the packs. Which were way too heavy. Winter gear simply is way too heavy, and in deep winter you can't cut corners.

I mentioned this in my earlier post---about negotiating blowdowns and bramble fields and terrible trail. And postholing . . . and snowdowns!!! Snowdowns happen when the green tunnel of the trail collapses on itself due to snow load on the bushes, requiring a belly crawl below the snowdowns, always fun with a 70 lb pack. Mileage will drop significantly, like one mile in 3 hours.

And postholing will really slow you down, most especially going up a steep mountain in 2-3 feet of deep snow . . . . while carrying a full winter pack of 70 lbs etc.

TRIP 152 119-XL.jpg
This is an example of a trail somewhat closed with snowdowns. Usually it's much worse.

TRIP 107 040-L.jpg
Another example of a snowdown blocking the trail.

TRIP 105 148-L.jpg
And sometimes the snow is too deep for your dog to get thru with his heavy dog pack, so . . . .

TRIP 105 149-L.jpg
You have to hump his pack along with your own. What fun.

trip 90 059-L.jpg
And then there's your usual postholing up a mountain with significant weight on your back.

All these examples show that daily mileage numbers can at times be completely irrelevant---you just try to get from one camp to the next.

[Another Kevin]

And postholing will really slow you down, most especially going up a steep mountain in 2-3 feet of deep snow . . . . while carrying a full winter pack of 70 lbs etc.

I don't do the long food carries you do. But there are times when 55 lbs is lightweight, even for a weekend.

Where I mostly hike (the State Forest Preserve of New York), postholing isn't lawful. (Seriously- I've known people who've gotten tickets for not having snowshoes.) And it's damned poor trail etiquette. I don't mind if you want to go wallowing in snow off trail... but on a trail, don't leave postholes for me to trip over! I damned near went down a slope headfirst once when I tripped over a posthole on a ledge. Yeah, I could probably have arrested. If I'm moving around in winter, I've always got something pointy in my hands (either poles or ice axe). It was still scary.

TRIP 152 119-XL.jpg
This is an example of a trail somewhat closed with snowdowns. Usually it's much worse.

Heh. Challenge for you: find the trail sign in this picture. I promise, it's there! Note the skid marks from the belly crawls of the hikers ahead of me.


(Click through to embiggen)

That knee-high sign is overhead in summer - there's about a five- or six-foot snowdrift in there. Most of the rest of that ridge is more exposed, and the wind pushes the snow to pile up under the bigger trees.

And then there are spruce traps. There's nothing like suddenly falling chest-deep into the snow with your snowshoes tangled in tree branches. (These next ones aren't my picthres, but they're good illustrations.) This is what a spruce trap looks like, when you can see it at all:


And this is what happens when you step in one:



Spruce traps are a big reason that I don't hike solo in deep snow. Sometimes you simply can't get out unaided.

[Tipi Walter]

I've never seen a winter backpacker in the Southeast carrying snowshoes---and so we all just posthole to our heart's content. In fact I've never heard of a winter AT thruhiker starting in Georgia bringing snowshoes. Did Thomas Gathman bring snowshoes on his winter sobo thruhike from Maine?? Yes, in fact he did! But nobody down here brings them. We just hit rough ridgetop patches of deep snow and posthole our lives away. And during major events like the Blizzard of '93 we call for helicopter extraction.

[illabelle]

Excellent challenge, Kevin! Was not able to find the sign without enlarging the picture. Very well hidden.
Love your word, "embiggen"!

Heh. Challenge for you: find the trail sign in this picture. I promise, it's there! Note the skid marks from the belly crawls of the hikers ahead of me.


(Click through to embiggen)

That knee-high sign is overhead in summer - there's about a five- or six-foot snowdrift in there. Most of the rest of that ridge is more exposed, and the wind pushes the snow to pile up under the bigger trees.

[Tipi Walter]

These are the conditions which caused Flyin Brian Robinson to turn back on his triple crown attempt.