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  1. #41

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    When I received a cold soda or a piece of fruit from someone at a Trailhead, I never felt I needed to ask them what their motivation was. I think it would have been quite rude to be honest with you. I thanked them and told them how much I appreciated their kindness after spending hours walking on the trail without access to some of the simple pleasures of life. Pretty simple in my mind and I don't think we need a lot of psycho babble about the subject, but you keyboard cowboys go ahead and amuse yourselves.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator View Post
    The both of you, tdoczi and MuddyWaters, are still making assumptions about motivations that simply aren't always true.
    the challenge here seems to be that this is hard to talk about without speaking too broadly.

    yes, the assumption you see me as making is not ALWAYS true. but is it NEVER true?

    i think it often is true. and in the cases when it is true, it is not helping anyone or anything that it is going on.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator View Post
    The both of you, tdoczi and MuddyWaters, are still making assumptions about motivations that simply aren't always true. I have multiple times seen thruhikers say they wanted to give some trail magic back because they had received some and it was a memorable boost or a positive interaction during their hike. Sometimes they are just dropping something off like a cooler or water (not suggesting it's the best idea). They may not want or care for any interaction.

    Ive seen this too, Ive been offered food by ex thru hikers, mistaking me for a thru hiker.
    Problem was ...they only wanted to give food to ....thru hikers . Their perogative, but something I fault them for.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator View Post
    You guys have never rooted for an individual or team in an exercise, event, competetion that you do not personally participate in? Never cheered for a child's team? The home team? You've never been willing to contribute to the success of such an individual or team?
    I dont go out and root for teams that I dont even know anyone on, or have any relationship at all with. Do you stop by the little league field in the evening and root for random teams?


    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator View Post
    Never helped somebody out of kindness?
    All the time. But giving someone on vacation food, that is carrying food, isnt exactly helping them. Actually, it makes them carry the food they already have....instead of eating it. Giving them a ride to town, or the doctor, or a gear item that they lost/damaged...is helping. And if they have only been on trail a day or two......its totally ridiculous.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator View Post
    Not everyone is a groupie. Sometimes people are just fans or admirers or simply dreamers.
    Id say that pretty much sums up the groupie. They want to associate, because for some reason they have over romanticized the experience and are envious.



    Never said ALWAYS. But spend enough time browsing other facebook pages for other trails, and the copy-cat free food that has spilled over from the AT is sickening. People have no common sense and dont know limits. I quit looking at several facebook pages totally because it was sickening.

    I might love a hamburger in the middle of the Sierra. But I dont want some bunch of idiots to show up and serve me one. I have respect for what the place is, and should remain. There is a very real lack of respect for trails by many new people introduced to them thru facebook today. They are simply ignorant copycats, but they are copying the AT. Perhaps its time for the AT to set a better example. It does not exist in a vacuum.

    The AT has taken some hits recently from thruhikers and Jurek in BSP, from trail hostels etc closing due to hiker behavior, etc.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 09-19-2017 at 20:39.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Id say that pretty much sums up the groupie. They want to associate, because for some reason they have over romanticized the experience and are envious.
    yup.

    it seems to me an odd distinction to try to draw between "groupie" and a person trying to "make a connection" with a community they are not actually part of and arent interested in ever truly being a part of aside from the most superficial and peripheral way possible.

    the funniest thing is its real simple to join the hiking community- get yourself a pair of boots and start walking.

    but they dont want to do that.

    just as a "groupie" in the traditional sense wants to be a rockstar without playing an instrument or writing a song.

    its all about having the fun without doing the "work."

    the comparison to being a fan of sports is apt. theres being a fan of a team, and theres those people who use the word "we" when referring to the team as if they are a part of it because they drank some beer and ate a hotdog while watching others play the game. that too is being a groupie.

    and yes this is not **ALWAYS** true of every single act one might ever possibly call "trail magic."

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Which is precisely why these people arent lined up to do trail work instead. Thats work and commitent....not fun socializing.
    Huh? I've done some trail work -- not a whole lot, but enough to get the flavor -- and I can tell you it's good clean fun and we do lots of socializing, before, during and after.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rafe View Post
    Huh? I've done some trail work -- not a whole lot, but enough to get the flavor -- and I can tell you it's good clean fun and we do lots of socializing, before, during and after.
    I wouldnt call trail building ive done fun, it was incredibly hard work. The enjoyment came from knowing you contributed something. But maybe thats because as low skill labor, i done lotsa rock gathering. Big f'in rocks.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 09-19-2017 at 22:38.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoczi View Post
    the challenge here seems to be that this is hard to talk about without speaking too broadly.

    yes, the assumption you see me as making is not ALWAYS true. but is it NEVER true?

    i think it often is true. and in the cases when it is true, it is not helping anyone or anything that it is going on.
    I can meet you somewhere in the middle on it. I've certainly wondered about some people I've met. People have interests that aren't always explainable or in line with your own.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
    Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan

    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Ive seen this too, Ive been offered food by ex thru hikers, mistaking me for a thru hiker.
    Problem was ...they only wanted to give food to ....thru hikers . Their perogative, but something I fault them for.




    I dont go out and root for teams that I dont even know anyone on, or have any relationship at all with. Do you stop by the little league field in the evening and root for random teams?




    All the time. But giving someone on vacation food, that is carrying food, isnt exactly helping them. Actually, it makes them carry the food they already have....instead of eating it. Giving them a ride to town, or the doctor, or a gear item that they lost/damaged...is helping. And if they have only been on trail a day or two......its totally ridiculous.




    Id say that pretty much sums up the groupie. They want to associate, because for some reason they have over romanticized the experience and are envious.



    Never said ALWAYS. But spend enough time browsing other facebook pages for other trails, and the copy-cat free food that has spilled over from the AT is sickening. People have no common sense and dont know limits. I quit looking at several facebook pages totally because it was sickening.

    I might love a hamburger in the middle of the Sierra. But I dont want some bunch of idiots to show up and serve me one. I have respect for what the place is, and should remain. There is a very real lack of respect for trails by many new people introduced to them thru facebook today. They are simply ignorant copycats, but they are copying the AT. Perhaps its time for the AT to set a better example. It does not exist in a vacuum.

    The AT has taken some hits recently from thruhikers and Jurek in BSP, from trail hostels etc closing due to hiker behavior, etc.
    You didn't say always but you haven't made any effort to hold back your disdain even when contrary examples were presented. The rhetoric you are using is going to drive people away from the message because you are impugning their character.

    I don't watch football but once my wife asked me to attend a game where one team represented the school where she worked. So I went to support the kids and rooted for her school's team. Ever been to a soccer tournament? Lots of games going on in between your kid's matches. I'm rooting against the highlighter yellow jersey teams cause their shirts hurt my eyes. I do watch the Superbowl. Every year I pick one of the two teams and I stick with them the whole game, no switching teams. One game a year is kinda my limit. Am I worthy enough to watch? The majority of people watching don't have their team playing. What's their connection? Look at the all the women fans. Few played football. Hell how many of the men played? Something draws their interest.

    A groupie is someone who follows their band around from town to town. That's on the extreme end. There are people like that on the AT, but not the majority of people providing hiker feeds or angeling. A sports fan might just watch a team on TV. Maybe they go to some games, the diehards have season tickets. A sports groupie will go to the away games. Gradations.

    You can't always know someone's motivation for providing trail magic. For local residents, the thruhiker bubble is like a wildebeest or better yet, tropical bird migration...Look at that one's plumage, it's an Osprey. Oh that little fellow has been out in the rain he looks so hungry. Where did he migrate in from if only that little bird could talk...oh wait he can talk ...little bird I have a sandwich please tell where are you from and what is your habitat like. Local residents know a thruhiker is always hungry and never has enough food. For others, they might have a friend or family member who thruhiked or is hiking and they help you because it provides a connection. Some may admire your grit and carefree attitude but have responsibilities they can't put aside. They're dreaming about it, just like most thruhikers do before doing it.

    It's better to explain why feeds can be detrimental rather than telling people there's something wrong with them personally.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
    Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan

    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puddlefish View Post
    Apparently, you're incapable of comprehension, and understanding context. My very first sentence stated that people aren't limiting the hiker feeds and organized trail magic to the road crossings.

    I hiked from Springer to Bland, VA. I delayed my original start date by one week to avoid Damascus at party time. I saw at least a dozen unattended coolers, with scraps of waste littering the area around them. I saw bags of "hike out your trash" trail magic, that never got hiked out, which did nothing but attract wildlife to camping areas. Half empty bags of rotting apples on picnic tables. I've told a number of specific stories in other threads on this topic as well.

    People are lazy, if a shelter/campground is within two or three miles of a road, there's a decent chance some overly helpful idiot will hike in and distribute food or beer. Some of them hang around, and hike out everyone's trash, some of them just leave crap at the shelters and hike back out. It was more of a problem, for me, early in my hike, before I got my trail legs. Once I got in shape, I had the ability to just walk a few extra miles to avoid such places. I'm not ancient, but I'm not young. Yeah, I pretty much need my sleep after a month of hiking full days.

    It has little to do with me being sensitive, despite your clumsy insults. I don't want the trail to be a dive bar, I don't want the wildlife on the trail to be negatively impacted. If I want to go to a dive bar, I'll just go to a dive bar.

    You're apparently a selfish party hard boy, who feels that your precious freedoms are being threatened by the mean mean people who want to preserve the trail as a wilderness experience... or maybe not. How about I stop psychoanalyzing you, and you stop psychoanalyzing me, because I assure you, that you're not good at it.
    Hilarious stuff, here.

    I don't drink alcohol. Ever. For any reason.
    I don't take tobacco in any form for any reason. Ever.
    I don't take any unlawful substance for any reason. Ever.
    I don't take any prescription medication, controlled or otherwise, without a prescription. Ever.

    So, ummmm...yeah...you don't know me at all.

    It's a public trail. Drinking alcohol and becoming intoxicated upon it is not unlawful, AFAIK. This may vary when the trail meanders through a state park, IIRC...certainly in Baxter, for example.

    So where I am coming from is here:

    Don't foist your sensitivities upon others. I don't do any of the things you complain of. But, I have enough respect for the individual liberties of my fellow citizens to check myself and not try to impose MY desired limitations upon others who do not share my views. So long as your behavior does not physically endanger me or innocents, and it breaks no criminal statute, have at it. It is, in fact, your right. You are free to go over to the drunks and preach to them. You are free to ignore them. You are not free to impose YOUR will upon them to in any way limit their freedoms. It's called...liberty. The pursuit of happiness. Freedom.

    Again, you need a more remote trail where your interactions with fellow citizens who enjoy their freedoms aren't offending your sensibilities because there are so few of them on the trail.

    You could also try to legislate away your worries. It's called lobbying. Good luck with that!

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareBear View Post
    Hilarious stuff, here.

    I don't drink alcohol. Ever. For any reason.
    I don't take tobacco in any form for any reason. Ever.
    I don't take any unlawful substance for any reason. Ever.
    I don't take any prescription medication, controlled or otherwise, without a prescription. Ever.

    So, ummmm...yeah...you don't know me at all.

    It's a public trail. Drinking alcohol and becoming intoxicated upon it is not unlawful, AFAIK. This may vary when the trail meanders through a state park, IIRC...certainly in Baxter, for example.

    So where I am coming from is here:

    Don't foist your sensitivities upon others. I don't do any of the things you complain of. But, I have enough respect for the individual liberties of my fellow citizens to check myself and not try to impose MY desired limitations upon others who do not share my views. So long as your behavior does not physically endanger me or innocents, and it breaks no criminal statute, have at it. It is, in fact, your right. You are free to go over to the drunks and preach to them. You are free to ignore them. You are not free to impose YOUR will upon them to in any way limit their freedoms. It's called...liberty. The pursuit of happiness. Freedom.

    Again, you need a more remote trail where your interactions with fellow citizens who enjoy their freedoms aren't offending your sensibilities because there are so few of them on the trail.

    You could also try to legislate away your worries. It's called lobbying. Good luck with that!
    You aren't very good at understanding subtlety are you? I intentionally made stupid assumptions about you, just like you made stupid assumptions about me. Yet you continue to mock me as being overly sensitive. That's just tacky of you, it's rude, it's against the spirit of these forums. We have conflicting opinions, I'm being no more sensitive than you are in expressing my views and sharing my experiences.

    Criminal law? That's the hill you want to die on? That's the standard you think should apply to hikers? You want to criminalize rude behavior, you want to criminalize failure to follow LNT?

    I don't want to become the trail police, I don't preach at drunken hikers when I'm on the trail. I have asked a couple of groups to be more considerate. Such as when they walked into a field I was tenting at and started a fire without a firepit just twenty feet from my tent. I don't retaliate and wake up noisy hikers early the next morning. I hike my own hike, but don't make anyone else hike my own hike. I show them the courtesy that they didn't show me. I will however continue to point out on these forums that your actions on the trail impact the enjoyment of others.

    I am lobbying. I'm lobbying on Whiteblaze, because this is a perfectly acceptable forum for the point I'm trying to make. I'm making a point of supporting the ATCs policies and requests.

    Stop telling me to find another trail, because I'm not willing to give up on this trail, just because you want me to. I'm a dues paying member of the ATC, I'll continue to speak my mind despite your clumsy insults.

  11. #51
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    everyone on this site, the ATC, ALDHA, Sierra club etc….. can make rules, guidelines , whatever and it all means squat

    - there is ONE law enforcement officer for the whole trail

    -people will continue to do whatever they want, with no real repercussions

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