WhiteBlaze Pages 2024
A Complete Appalachian Trail Guidebook.
AVAILABLE NOW. $4 for interactive PDF(smartphone version)
Read more here WhiteBlaze Pages Store

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: GSMNP Crevasse

  1. #1
    GSMNP 900 Miler
    Join Date
    02-25-2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Age
    57
    Posts
    4,861
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    5

    Default GSMNP Crevasse

    Was looking at the Balsam Mtn area in Google Earth. Found it interesting that, especially if you look as some of the older B&W satellite images, you can clearly make out some of the old railroad grades in the area. In some places, you could clearly see where the railroads blasted through a section of rock to make a turn.

    Well at 35.666ºN, 83.149ºW, Google Earth topography shows a 150' deep crevasse. But I can't find anything else to indicate if this is real or just a bad data glitch. Anyone have any input if this is real or just a data glitch.

    I've seen in the past where some of the topography data was a little off... just look at Fontana Dam (35.4526ºN, 83.8046ºW). About 1/3 of the way across the dam (NOBO) the topography data shows a 20' deep 'V' in the dam. Relatively minor data glitches are to be expected, but an imaginary 150' deep crevasse seems a bit extreme if there isn't anything real to the data.

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    12-19-2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    3,715
    Images
    3

    Default

    to me----that looks like data glitch...

    cause it also "bends" the trees.............

  3. #3
    GSMNP 900 Miler
    Join Date
    02-25-2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Age
    57
    Posts
    4,861
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    5

    Default

    Yea, I saw the bending of the trees as well... but wasn't sure if that's just the image overlay isn't lining up right or tree crowns that over hang the crevasse.

    But upon further review, the thing I think supports 'data glitch' idea even more is the total lack of a shadows. If there really were a 150' deep and 50' wide crevasse, at least one of the historical images should show some sort of shadow. But even looking at the image from 3/2013 where much of the tree crowns are bare and a good big of sunlight reaches the ground (in many areas, you can see the shadows of the tree trunks on the ground), there isn't any hint of a shadow. Other places in the mountains, you can see how evergreen trees along ridges do cast shadows.

  4. #4

    Default

    It shows up in The National Map's elevation data. So maybe it is real. Perhaps an old quarrying area? I'd probably want better resolution data than 1/9 arc second given, but NC requires registration for its data and I don't feel like doing that.
    --
    EJS
    (Ed. S)

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    04-04-2016
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia
    Posts
    116

    Default

    I'm not sure it's entirely man made, but older topos do show a logging railroad there.

    Image1.jpg

    Image2.jpg

    It may also be a landslide - Jenny Bennett posted about a landslide a bit west of your location, also on old railroad grade.

  6. #6
    GSMNP 900 Miler
    Join Date
    02-25-2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Age
    57
    Posts
    4,861
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    5

    Default

    The size and shape isn't correct for a railroad 'cut'.
    Here's a screen shot of Google Earth with a topo overlay. The red arrow shows the old railroad curving to the left. I've drawn a blue line thru the crevasse the curves to the right.
    GoogleEarth.jpg

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    12-19-2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    3,715
    Images
    3

    Default

    It may also be a landslide - Jenny Bennett posted about a landslide a bit west of your location, also on old railroad grade.


    on google earth----the landslide is visible....


    there looks to be two if im looking at it right....

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    12-19-2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    3,715
    Images
    3

    Default

    I've drawn a blue line thru the crevasse the curves to the right.


    im still going with data glitch......

    however, theres only one way to truly find out....

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    01-28-2008
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    4,907

    Default

    Google Earth shows elevations based on the natural surface. Man made changes, such as a railway can be visible, but not show as changes in elevation.
    "It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss

  10. #10

    Default

    I'm in....lets go

  11. #11
    GSMNP 900 Miler
    Join Date
    02-25-2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Age
    57
    Posts
    4,861
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Bill View Post
    Google Earth shows elevations based on the natural surface. Man made changes, such as a railway can be visible, but not show as changes in elevation.
    Not exactly a true statement.

    For a man made structure such as a bridge, you are absolutely correct. Look at a road or railroad as it crosses a bridged ditch and you see a very unnatural dip in the road.

    But if a man made change changes the natural surface, that will show in Google Earth. A great example of a shelf the railroad created in GSMNP can be seen in Google Earth at 35.6395ºN, 83.182ºW (it becomes very obvious if you exaggerate the vertical profile).

    Another great example of this would be the cut made thru Red Mountain in Birmingham, AL for I-65 (33.473ºN, 86.829ºW).

    However a great example of where Google Earth can have it so wrong is the cut made thru Red Mountain decades before for Hwy 31/280 (33.495ºN, 86.788ºW). Google nailed the steep slope of the East side of the cut. Don't know why they show a gentle slope on the West side. Look at historical imagery for 2/5/2013 and you can clearly see the terraces on the west side that should be matching the terraces on the east side. Look at the historical imagery for 12/17/2013 and you can see shadows on the west side that wouldn't be there if the terrain were sloped like Google Earth shows.


    So when I see how badly the Google Earth data can be, I'm betting on data glitch for the Crevasse as well.

    But I must say I'm now interested in trying to take a hike and see how well the old railroad road bed can be followed in this area. Looks to be the start of a great railway bed right where Balsam Mtn Trail connects with Balsam Mtn Rd. The trial immediately starts climbing the mountain in a 1 o'clock direction while the old railroad bed remains level wrapping around the mountain leaving in a 2 o'clock direction paralleling Balsam Mtn Trail for quite a distance.
    Last edited by HooKooDooKu; 09-06-2017 at 17:54.

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    12-19-2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    3,715
    Images
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by blue indian View Post
    I'm in....lets go


    i like your style.....

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    07-25-2015
    Location
    Sugar Hill, GA
    Age
    57
    Posts
    920

    Default

    Switch to Terrain view in Google Maps and it looks like rip in the ridge.
    Last edited by Uncle Joe; 09-06-2017 at 22:56.

  14. #14

    Join Date
    05-05-2011
    Location
    state of confusion
    Posts
    9,866
    Journal Entries
    1

    Default

    glitch
    contour lines would run parallel and get closer together as the terrain got steeper

    on both sides
    not go down into a fold

    looks like a map was scanned with a fold in it and wasnt completely flat

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by blue indian View Post
    I'm in....lets go
    Sign me up too!

  16. #16
    GSMNP 900 Miler
    Join Date
    02-25-2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Age
    57
    Posts
    4,861
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by centerfieldr162 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blue indian View Post
    I'm in....lets go
    Sign me up too!
    Ok... so before you get to a when (best done offline or PM)... How?... And anyone got any off-trail experience?

    I think it's any easy 2 night itinerary to investigate the old railroad grade and "The Crevasse".
    My 1st thought is you park along Balsam Mtn Road at the trail head for Balsam Mtn Tr or Palmer Creek Tr. Camp the 1st night as BC39.
    2nd day, you climb Pretty Hollow Gap to about 1 mile below the gap and look for the old railroad grade to "The Crevasse".
    If the railroad grade can't be found or followed, make a 2nd attempt towards "The Crevasse" from Mt. Sterling Ridge.
    From Sterling Ridge trail, I spot a relatively easy sloped drainage that starts at 35.6727ºN,83.1631ºW. Follow the drainage to the old railroad grade, then the old railroad grade to "The Crevasse".
    Return to Mt Sterling Ridge Trail and continue to Laural Gap shelter before dark.
    Finish the loop back to your car the 3rd day to head home.


    But the real off-trail hike I've been wanting to do has been to find the marker on top of Mt. Guyot.
    By itself, Guyot could be done as a 1 night hike, but I'd want to set it up as a two night hike. You park at the Balsam Mtn trail head and hike to Tricorner Shelter. Next day, you hike to Mt. Guyot and back to your car if you have the time, or just to Laural Gap shelter if you don't want to head all the way home that 2nd day.

    It would be possible to do both in one trip. Simply add a "side" trip to Guyot and Tricorner Knob in the middle of "The Crevasse" loop.

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    12-19-2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    3,715
    Images
    3

    Default

    i wasnt necessarily looking at map and comparing where the "crevasse" was at in regards to trails--

    so is it just south of mount sterling ridge trail?

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    Ok... so before you get to a when (best done offline or PM)... How?... And anyone got any off-trail experience?

    I think it's any easy 2 night itinerary to investigate the old railroad grade and "The Crevasse".
    My 1st thought is you park along Balsam Mtn Road at the trail head for Balsam Mtn Tr or Palmer Creek Tr. Camp the 1st night as BC39.
    2nd day, you climb Pretty Hollow Gap to about 1 mile below the gap and look for the old railroad grade to "The Crevasse".
    If the railroad grade can't be found or followed, make a 2nd attempt towards "The Crevasse" from Mt. Sterling Ridge.
    From Sterling Ridge trail, I spot a relatively easy sloped drainage that starts at 35.6727ºN,83.1631ºW. Follow the drainage to the old railroad grade, then the old railroad grade to "The Crevasse".
    Return to Mt Sterling Ridge Trail and continue to Laural Gap shelter before dark.
    Finish the loop back to your car the 3rd day to head home.


    But the real off-trail hike I've been wanting to do has been to find the marker on top of Mt. Guyot.
    By itself, Guyot could be done as a 1 night hike, but I'd want to set it up as a two night hike. You park at the Balsam Mtn trail head and hike to Tricorner Shelter. Next day, you hike to Mt. Guyot and back to your car if you have the time, or just to Laural Gap shelter if you don't want to head all the way home that 2nd day.

    It would be possible to do both in one trip. Simply add a "side" trip to Guyot and Tricorner Knob in the middle of "The Crevasse" loop.
    Replying quick as I'm leaving work but will respond more in depth when I've got time to not worry about beating the shipyard traffic. I'd be up for both hikes. I have been interested in guyot's peak for quite some time. I could squeeze a day off work and make a long weekend for one trip at a time.

    Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

  19. #19
    GSMNP 900 Miler
    Join Date
    02-25-2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Age
    57
    Posts
    4,861
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    i wasnt necessarily looking at map and comparing where the "crevasse" was at in regards to trails--
    so is it just south of mount sterling ridge trail?
    I wouldn't say "just" south... but yea.

    If you look at the trail map, it shows a creek that runs into Pretty Hollow Gap trail at about its mid-point. "The Crevasse" is located on the ridge that borders that creek on the north-east side, about 2/3 the way up the creek.

    I just looked at the topo overlay and actually noticed that there is a couple of old trails that run from Mount Sterling Ridge Trail down to railroad grade that passes "The Crevasse"... not that you would still be able to find them today.

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    12-19-2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    3,715
    Images
    3

    Default

    interesting....

    there is a bluff in that area...........

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •