Stringbean and Camps

[Chair-man]

Good thing there's a gps track being kept on SB cuz you'd wouldn't want to rely on his instagram for documentation.
The only problem i see with relying solely on a spot gps is that it would be too easy to hand it off to someone else to run some of the trail for you

[ARambler]

So if I put him on a 7/16 day zero... then the two sightings above line up and so does the day 41/42 'live' posts.
That would make sense relative the article chairman posted... if they were being kind and he was being smart... he'd have them publish the wrong date to keep the delay going.
Puts a hole in his insty feed but we already know something broke down there it seems. Might be as simple as him realizing he messed it up (lost track of his delay) and just went live to catch up. Looks like a solid 2 day delay pattern right up until things broke down. I would not be surprised at all to hear he had a day below 20 in there.

Doing these solo people get lost in space pretty easy, especially at the end. Gets hard to follow along fer the big finish unless you run numbers alongside em.
More or less in the same boat- 8/31 or likely morning of 9/1 depending on start time fer Karl.
Hope somebody in his camp is running numbers for him... Joey was going for gold and got hurt two full days and change ahead of Matt's record at the time. It can happen so easily up there.
With Karl out of reach I'd be telling him to pace himself, hold it down and be careful. He could "drop back" to 35's and put up a sub 50. I say drop back in quotes because that's still pretty stout miles for a nobo in the shape he says he's in. I'm sure he's feeling Joey pressure in the back of his mind but better to finish intact than race an imaginary time that may never come... anyone following Joey on insty can see he's got his own problems too. Course seeing folks battle to their limits like this is part of the deal... three years ago Matt was trying to see if the legend of Ward and sub-60 was possible. Sub 50 is a huge leap!

Wild performance for sure!

I don't think so...
It seems you are equating beginning of the day spreadsheet with end of the day Instgram. I think July 17 start and early Sept 1 Karl Mark. Any better estimate on time of day of SB start?

[chknfngrs]

Bakwin knows and I'm sure will share soon enough

[Just Bill]

I don't think so...
It seems you are equating beginning of the day spreadsheet with end of the day Instgram. I think July 17 start and early Sept 1 Karl Mark. Any better estimate on time of day of SB start?

With these, you have to have a 'day zero' which is the day you start. So say you start at 6:00 am on the 7/1... as far as the total elapsed time goes... Day 1 isn't complete until 6:00 am on 7/2.
What gets tricky is how the person doing the attempt chooses to do when they record things, which is why it can be hard (sorta) to follow along exactly and predict a solid " finish line".
Joe's first instagram day could be when he finished his first calendar day, but depending on actual start time he could have recorded a partial day(s) with each post. If he start at 6:00 am, but gets up at 4:00 am he's still putting miles on for the previous record day.

That's why I mentioned we might have a day zero problem with this- as in Joe didn't count one.
We had that issue with Dan's trip report- he recorded his first day as a record day, but following days as calendar days and flipped back/forth at least once more.
He started at 2pm which further confussed things, perhaps for Dan most of all.

Either way- it has absolutely nothing with documenting his hike or isn't something that won't be resolved quickly once his trip report is done. The clock, calendar, and FKT all settle up at the end.
The only point of all this silliness is for us to take our best guess on the finish date now that he's live.
Unless it comes from Joe himself- doubt we'll have get the start time unless somebody here, was there, and chooses to chime in.
I would expect we'd hear from him at least one more time around Caratunk before it's done.

I'd say nailing it down to a 24-36 hour period is close enough for a solo, self-reported, time delayed and intentionally obscured trip in the woods.

For those asking the cynical questions in the back of their minds...

When Dan made his '300 miles out post' I did some quick math and made a mental note.
When Dan finished a day or more before I figured, I made another mental note.
I believe Mr. Rambler we discussed this at the time, yes?
In that case, unfortunately it was worth noting.


In this case: other than the unbelievable miles put up by Joe, I don't really expect any issues.
Course as somebody who believes in unbelievable miles I don't really expect any issues with that either.
Course if Joe comes crashing out of the woods, across the plateau and puts up a pic of him making out with a certain brown sign tomorrow... that might be problematic.
And if'n we don't hear from Joe until this weekend or Monday, we'll know Karl's time has elapsed but he's still several days ahead of Anish and by all accounts quite successful in my book.
As Dan fairly pointed out- If you're going to have standards they should apply to all.


As chairman pointed out, best not to take the social media too seriously.
By all accounts Joe is a stand up dude all around.
No reason not to cheer him on as yer watching, no reason not to watch him as yer cheering.
Turns out that's the easiest thing about these really as they are essentially the exact same thing.

[Just Bill]

Bakwin knows and I'm sure will share soon enough

Yar- when the time comes. Joe has not disclosed it publicly and Peter will honor his wishes.

FWIW- I don't know it and I'm not going to ask it.
Fer further transparency- Some loudmouth did point out that some of us were rooting for Joey so best not to discuss Joe in anyway whilst his effort was in progress.
Sometimes them nerds get all excited and start chatting away and you gotta keep them chuckleheads in line.

[ARambler]

...
The only problem i see with relying solely on a spot gps is that it would be too easy to hand it off to someone else to run some of the trail for you

That sounds cool (if silly) to me, a two person relay fkt. It could be the perfect combination between supported and not supported. OK I'm spinning things.
Not sure how social media spins this to a threat to society.

[matthew.d.kirk]

Good thing there's a gps track being kept on SB cuz you'd wouldn't want to rely on his instagram for documentation.

No doubt we're hoping Joe will post his track. Any additional details on how he managed his injuries and refueling (upwards of 10000cal/~5#/day!) self-supported would be awesome, too. Quite a logistical feat when considering variables such as hitting business hours, optimal pack weight to making miles etc.

To put such leap into perspective: back in 2011, having witnessed firsthand the immense logistics involved in fueling Jen on her 46-day push, I would've never in my wildest dreams asked after a sub-50 itinerary. So Mapman helped me start brainstorming a sub-60 self-supported hike here on WB.
What would a sub-50 itinerary look like? I don't think anyone has ever bothered to publicly hypothesize. Given the self-supported restrictions, it's not as simple as it may seem. I still recall a question/answer in a 2013 interview: without a crew, sub-55, yes; sub-50, no. Now, I'm getting ready to eat my words!

[Just Bill]

Oddly enough for this particular FKT... the score card now stands at two to three. FKT vs unverified/DQ'd.
(Anderson, Kirk) vs (Camps, Ninja, Knotts)
Sadly enough pretty much all Heather did was slap down her PCT hike as verification and it's been all downhill from there.

Not supplying his GPS publicly for a hike this big is not an option.


Once that's done and all checks out I look forward to hearing how the hell he's pulled this all off.. and getting the score card back on track.

[Chair-man]

No doubt we're hoping Joe will post his track.

I lifted this quote from SB from his announcement on page 7 of the FKT website

"I will be carrying a GPS Gen 3 Spot tracker. It will not be made public, but Peter Bakwin will be receiving real time updates. I am happy to share this link to anyone interested in verification. I consider these precautions very important to honor my efforts, and will also have video/photo documentation."

So I guess all you have do is ask.

==================================================

Also, some of the pictures of SB's on his instagram page don't look like they were taken by himself unless he used a timer to take them. So, the first question I have for SB would be.... did you have a photographer or film crew with you at any time? If so did you camp with them? The reason for this is that on post 1 of the Joe McConaughy thread it says "The spokesperson noted that a documentary is being produced during the attempt."

If he had someone with him that's not a solo effort.

[Rmcpeak]

If he had someone with him that's not a solo effort.

Arguable if "solo effort" and "self-supported" are the same thing. Presently, my view is that having a film crew or even a coach along would still be self-supported as long as the athlete hiked all the miles, resupplied themselves, etc. -- met all of the established FKT "Anish's Rules" criteria.

[matthew.d.kirk]

So I guess all you have do is ask.

Not beneath me to ask, did so with Anish... took about a year, but eventually got the data.

I guess in an ideal world, the 2013 standard of transparency would be restored and all such info would be voluntarily published concurrently with a self-supported FKT claim. Makes sense to me.

Curious if such proprietary behavior is how he rolled on PCT, I came across Karel Sabbe's post: http://fastestknowntime.proboards.co...&scrollTo=4686

Seems the answer is yes...? Taking this with a grain of salt, not really trying to dredge up drama from other trails. Hopeful Joe does the right thing on the AT.

[Chair-man]

Curious if such proprietary behavior is how he rolled on PCT, I came across Karel Sabbe's post: http://fastestknowntime.proboards.co...&scrollTo=4686

Karel makes a good case for himself and raises some interesting points.
As far as Karel's claim that SB's PCT gps files were corrupt, I'm not so sure. If you look at page 3 on that thread you'll see SBs announcement where he said he used a satellite phone for his gps. I'm no techie but I would think you'd need a DeLorme map (software) to read it correctly.
Matt, if you ever find yourself asking SB for the AT data you might as well ask for the PCT data as well. I'm sure he'd wouldn't mind giving it to you since your a previous record holder.

[matthew.d.kirk]

I'm sure he'd wouldn't mind giving it to you since your a previous record holder.

Thanks Chair-man, that's kind of my point, though: this data should be available to anybody without having to ask. I'm no techie, but have learned some tricks over the years, such as GPS babel. Given the sophistication of Karel's site, I'd imagine they would've known how to convert filetypes, too.

Whatever happened on PCT, the AT is opportunity to turn over a new leaf. Seems Joe and crew are also interested to do so: https://www.instagram.com/p/BYaBWSPF...thestring.bean

[Just Bill]

Guess we should say- 'Hello Jordo'.

Probably should say hi to Karl as well.

[chknfngrs]

Honestly, this FKT process is eye opening! I had an idea how it worked, but prior to this summer had no idea the logistics behind it.

Matthew and Bill, you seem to be the resident experts. What do you make of the court of public opinion by way of inatagram or tracking sites? Does the use of such sites serve to discount those that ran before?!

I love hiking and now love hiking fast and am considering what I would be capable of in a marathon or ultra marathon setting (words I never thought I'd type)

[Chair-man]

Thanks Chair-man, that's kind of my point, though: this data should be available to anybody without having to ask.

All I can say is I sure do miss the real time live tracking being public like the way Scott Jurek did it without issues. I know his FKT was a supported one but I think a guy attempting a unsupported can have live public tracking too. All he has to do if offered support is politely turn it down. At least the trail community can observe his attempt to make sure there's no funny business going on.
I understand why a female perusing a FKT would't wont to make her whereabouts known.

Look at the thread Scott Jurek had here called "Scott Jurek on the Appalachian Trail". His thread had over 2,800 replies and now has over 500,000 views. Why the mega interest? IMO it was because he make his tracking public. With all the talk of being an open book and transparency I hope the next unsupported attempter will consider making their tracking public. It wont be me cuz I'm just some retired guy sitting here in central FL with too much time on my hands.
Wait, is there an over 60 FKT category?

[quahog13]

I lifted this quote from SB from his announcement on page 7 of the FKT website

Also, some of the pictures of SB's on his instagram page don't look like they were taken by himself unless he used a timer to take them. So, the first question I have for SB would be.... did you have a photographer or film crew with you at any time? If so did you camp with them? The reason for this is that on post 1 of the Joe McConaughy thread it says "The spokesperson noted that a documentary is being produced during the attempt."

If he had someone with him that's not a solo effort.

Joe replied to a comment that he is taking the pictures himself with a GoPro.

sb.PNG

[matthew.d.kirk]

Does the use of such sites serve to discount those that ran before?!

No, because there's more than one way to be transparent. If anything, some of these newer documentation techniques (social media, in particular) with excessive built-in opacity demonstrate how newer isn't always better.

Chair-man, Jurek's transparency was/is admirable and definitely contributed to the generating interest. His minor celebrity status helped, too. What's your take on our recent efforts to hit a happy medium with tracking Joey?

[Scrum]

All he has to do if offered support is politely turn it down. . . .
I understand why a female perusing a FKT would't wont to make her whereabouts known.

Two points: (1) As to just turning down support, I understood that on a self-supported FTK it is okay to accept assistance like trail magic, or the types of things long distance hikers ofter share with each other on the trail (A little water when you still have a few miles to go to the next spring, an apple from a day hiker). What is not allowed is to take assistance from people who come to the trail to specifically provide it to the FTK attempt maker. I think one of the big reasons folks don't give out their realtime location is that it significantly decreases the chance that people will come out to provide assistance.

(2) Safety - with all do respect, the idea that only women need to be concerned about personal safety is inaccurate. For example, I do volunteer work for an organization that provides legal assistance to victims of rape and sexual assault, approximately 15% of the clients are male. Perpetuating the idea that males can fend for themselves but women need to hide to be safe is also sexist. Both genders should take appropriate precautions to protect themselves, based on individual abilities and risk tolerances. Sorry for the tangent, and this likely comes across as harsh, which is not my intention.

[Chair-man]

Joe replied to a comment that he is taking the pictures himself with a GoPro.

sb.PNG

Thaks Quahog13, I missed that.

What's your take on our recent efforts to hit a happy medium with tracking Joey?

Nice Map, I certainly appreciate the work you and others put into it and I do look at it. To be honest though, it doesn't compare to real time tracking.

(2) Safety - with all do respect, the idea that only women need to be concerned about personal safety is inaccurate. For example, I do volunteer work for an organization that provides legal assistance to victims of rape and sexual assault, approximately 15% of the clients are male. Perpetuating the idea that males can fend for themselves but women need to hide to be safe is also sexist. Both genders should take appropriate precautions to protect themselves, based on individual abilities and risk tolerances. Sorry for the tangent, and this likely comes across as harsh, which is not my intention.

There's always a risk on the trail or anywhere. I would think some guy attempting a FKT would be for more concerned with ticks, rattlers & bears than someone making him squeal like a pig.