Satellite SOS (SPOT or InReach) use experience?

[windlion]

Curious about reporting and timeliness experience with these devices. Another poster asked whether a solo hiker who suffers a venomous snakebite should avoid exertion, sit tight, and SOS for help, or walk out?

Likely best answer, "it depends". But I wondered what kind of response times hikers have experienced in the real world.

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[ldsailor]

That's probably a better question for the help/sales desk of Spot Messenger or whatever other GPS device you may use. I can tell you that when I send out an "OK" message on my Spot, an email and Facebook post is sent fairly quick once the Satellite gets the signal (a couple of minutes depending on sky conditions). There is a process the satellite goes through in acquiring your signal and then sending out an email or posting to social media. If conditions are not optimal, sending a signal may take longer, and in the worst of conditions, it may not happen at all. I was sailing to the Caribbean from the States last November, and we got into some stormy weather. A couple of days of "OK" messages never made it to the satellites.

I discovered through research that the Spot office will try to contact the registered owner of the device or his designated contact to ensure the "SOS" signal is valid. Only then, after an attempt to determine validity of the signal, will Spot's office contact local authority with location and the need for assistance. The first contact of the registered owner or designated contact is not mentioned on Spot's web site, but I read an event where that process was used. See below from Spot's website.

"SOS: Use this function In the event of a life threatening or other critical emergency to notify emergency services of your GPS location and that you need assistance. The GEOS International Emergency Response Center alerts the appropriate agencies worldwide – for example contacting 9-1-1 responders in North America and 1-1-2 responders in Europe.
Read more
HOW IT WORKS:
Once activated, SPOT will acquire its exact coordinates from the GPS network, and send that location along with a distress message to the GEOS International Emergency Response Center every five minutes until cancelled or until the batteries are depleted. The Emergency Response Center notifies the appropriate emergency responders based on your GPS location and personal information – which may include local police, highway patrol, the Coast Guard, our country’s embassy or consulate, or other emergency search and rescue teams – as well as notifying your emergency contacts about the receipt of a distress signal.

IMPORTANT NOTE:
Even if SPOT cannot acquire its location from the GPS network it will still attempt to send a distress signal – without exact location – to GEOS, which will still notify your contacts of the signal and continue to monitor the network for further messages.

9-1-1 EMERGENCY SERVICES POWERED BY GEOS Search and Rescue"

[TKE402]

I rented an InReach for a hike through the 100 Mile Wilderness. It worked well. I had pre-programmed messages. I had a routine of sending a message every morning and night. I also had tracking turned on for every hour. This frequency was way too much and the battery ran low halfway through the trip. I stopped tracking and only did my morning and night messages. There is also a website that your family can log into to see you on a map. One thing to note was that it doesn't work with cloud cover. So if you have an emergency in a storm your hosed until clouds move out. One morning there was cloud cover (nothing serious just overcast) and I could not send out a message until early afternoon. There was a slight nervousness back home but I texted my explanation and everything is OK. By the way there is the ability to send texts with InReach which I find very useful. Hope that helps!
Chris

[DuneElliot]

Never had an issue with sending messages with the InReach, even with cloud or tree cover. Sadly mine just died right before a solo trip so had to invest in a new one...local store had them for a steal since it was the older version

[PatmanTN]

The answer is exactly "it depends". I've been using an In Reach for about five years now. When I have a clear open sky it can receive a message delivery confirmation in seconds. When obstructed it can take hours. I will say it has never failed to send...but the longest I've had to wait for confirmation was about 4 hours.

I only use mine for texting to my wife (and SOS if ever needed of course). We have a protocol whereby I send her one text when I;ve made camp for the day and wait for her reply. After that I turn it off to save batteries. I backpack nearly every weekend and with this limited use I only charge the device once every 2-3 months.

On of the better In Reach reviews I've seen is this one by Lone Stranger: http://www.trailspace.com/gear/delorme/inreach-se/

[PatmanTN]

My layman understanding of the technology is that besides the amount of sky and cloud cover involved, a primary factor is the number of satellites orbiting in the providers network. If you only have a small window of open sky you have to wait for a satellite to fly over that window so that you have line of sight communication to it. So each network may perform differently in different areas. Last I read, DeLorme (now Garmin) was using the Iridium network (which has extensive global coverage).
This is a PDF download of their coverage map:"

https://www.iridium.com/Download?res...4-fe74c63209dc

[Starvin Marvin]

There is a lot of good info on Skurka"s blog about satellite communicators, including the current Garmin devices.

[LittleTim]

Another poster asked whether a solo hiker who suffers a venomous snakebite should avoid exertion, sit tight, and SOS for help, or walk out?

Likely best answer, "it depends". But I wondered what kind of response times hikers have experienced in the real world.

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Congratulations on being the first to answer the question, not being new to forums I know that the last post on a page usually gets ignored. In hindsight, I should've started my own thread, but don't really want to perpetuate more paranoia about the dangers of the outdoors.


So... if I were to make the investment in a gps locator, does the locator give any indication if the message went through?

This feeds back into the decision to hunker down or hike back out, although I don't see myself getting one of those gadgets.

[windlion]

Exactly, and agreed. I am not hearing anyone speak up saying yes, I was bushwhacking Dolly Sods in the winter and twisted my ankle, hit the SOS out my inReach or SPOT and had an EMT show up five hours later. Vendor claims notwithstanding, I don't see these things as useful for much more than assuring the grandkids that I'm not dead yet.

Now if they could order a drone delivered quart of ice cream ....

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[TexasBob]

Exactly, and agreed. I am not hearing anyone speak up saying yes, I was bushwhacking Dolly Sods in the winter and twisted my ankle, hit the SOS out my inReach or SPOT and had an EMT show up five hours later. Vendor claims notwithstanding, I don't see these things as useful for much more than assuring the grandkids that I'm not dead yet..............

There are two parts to the answer to your question - 1. How fast is the SOS signal picked up by the satellite and relayed to a ground station (people have answered that part for you). 2. How long before emergency personnel reach your location after the SOS signal is received. That depends on where you are, the weather, is it night or day, the availability of local resources and a host of other things. So the best answer truly is "it depends". Is one worth having? I carry a ACR ResQLink personal locator beacon when I am out alone so I can send out an SOS if I need it. It doesn't do tracking or messages just summons help in an emergency and that's all I care about.

[windlion]

There are two parts to the answer to your question - 1. How fast is the SOS signal picked up by the satellite and relayed to a ground station (people have answered that part for you). 2. How long before emergency personnel reach your location after the SOS signal is received. That depends on where you are, the weather, is it night or day, the availability of local resources and a host of other things. So the best answer truly is "it depends". Is one worth having? I carry a ACR ResQLink personal locator beacon when I am out alone so I can send out an SOS if I need it. It doesn't do tracking or messages just summons help in an emergency and that's all I care about.

Any actual chances to use your SOS? Again, just trying to get a feel for the kind of response that others have experienced.

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[Venchka]

There are two parts to the answer to your question - 1. How fast is the SOS signal picked up by the satellite and relayed to a ground station (people have answered that part for you). 2. How long before emergency personnel reach your location after the SOS signal is received. That depends on where you are, the weather, is it night or day, the availability of local resources and a host of other things. So the best answer truly is "it depends". Is one worth having? I carry a ACR ResQLink personal locator beacon when I am out alone so I can send out an SOS if I need it. It doesn't do tracking or messages just summons help in an emergency and that's all I care about.

I carry an ACR ResQLink+ PLB. This unit is descended from the marine EPIRB units. A very mature, proven and reliable system.
The PLB transmits at 5 watts for 24 hours. The SPOT and iNReach transmit at 0.6 watts. Duration variable.
What's important to you? Being found? Or texting?
Wayne


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[windlion]

Thank you! My inReach just got demoted to the swap meet box.

Neither text or calling for help is important to me on the AT, really. The kids just want to be able to find my dead body (jk).


I suppose texting might have some use out west or in other difficult areas for coordinating support? Still have my doubts about relying on a PLB as a solo hiker for emergency assistance (snake bite, myocardial infarction, toxic shock &c). Maybe that's worth 6.4 extra ounces.

I carry an ACR ResQLink+ PLB. This unit is descended from the marine EPIRB units. A very mature, proven and reliable system.
The PLB transmits at 5 watts for 24 hours. The SPOT and iNReach transmit at 0.6 watts. Duration variable.
What's important to you? Being found? Or texting?
Wayne


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[Another Kevin]

I'm with Venchka and TexasBob - if itś the distress function you want, use a real PLB. They use the same system that was developed for shipwrecks and plane crashes. The transmitter is powerful enough that the satellites can get a fix on you even if the GPS isn't working or doesn't have a good view of the sky. The GPS is on board chiefly for speed - if it is working, they have a fix immediately, otherwise it can take up to a couple of hours.

Make sure you register it and renew the registration when it comes due. Unregistered PLB's don't get ignored, exactly, quite, but the response is more directed at quieting the radio channel than rescue.

And - I don't carry it for personal safety. I presume that in any serious accident I'll have bought the farm. But if I can light it, I can make the recovery a lot safer for Search and Rescue. I know that they'll be coming for me whether I want it or not, and the Search is the expensive and dangerous operation - having a solid fix on the subject almost eliminates that part of the equation.

The only time I've seriously contemplated lighting my PLB was when I sprained a knee when soloing in the West Canada Lakes Wilderness. But then I said to myself, "what will they do if they come for me? Put an Ace bandage on it, full me with painkillers, and walk me out. I can do that." Self-rescue is the best rescue. But it was a rough fifteen miles getting to the highway.

[Shutterbug]

The only time I activated the SOS feature on my Spot Device, I got no response at all. I was down in a crevice in the Grand Canyon and the SOS signal didn't get out. That is why I changed to the InReach. I have not used the SOS feature of the InReach; however, if I do I will know whether or not the signal is received because I will get a reply message.

Last year, I was hiking the PCT when a woman activated her Spot. She attempted to bypass a snow field by walking across a field of scree. She started sliding and was afraid that if she moved she would slide off a cliff. She sat down and called for help. It was a little over an hour before a military helicopter arrived to pluck her off the scree field.

[windlion]

The only time I activated the SOS feature on my Spot Device, I got no response at all. I was down in a crevice in the Grand Canyon and the SOS signal didn't get out. That is why I changed to the InReach. I have not used the SOS feature of the InReach; however, if I do I will know whether or not the signal is received because I will get a reply message.

Last year, I was hiking the PCT when a woman activated her Spot. She attempted to bypass a snow field by walking across a field of scree. She started sliding and was afraid that if she moved she would slide off a cliff. She sat down and called for help. It was a little over an hour before a military helicopter arrived to pluck her off the scree field.

An hour is pretty good response time to get a helicopter on scene, I'd think, especially not from dedicated emergency services. Just a Spot SOS, not any kind of situation report, right?

Thanks for the response, my question was trying to get a feel for the kind of response experience ppl have had, specifically to help make the walkout/shelter-in-place decision.

Had a somewhat similar situation as the woman's PCT experience this summer in Oregon's Strawberry Mtn region. Fortunately it did not turn dangerous, b/c I left the inReach back at our base camp.


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[MikekiM]

I never had issues sending messages with the InReach regardless of the level of cloud cover or rain. All messages went through within an acceptable time frame. Fortunately I've not had to use the sos feature. Just being able to send messages, preset or otherwise, has been good enough to make the Inreach a keeper for me.


Sent from somewhere east of Montauk..

[Offshore]

The only time I activated the SOS feature on my Spot Device, I got no response at all. I was down in a crevice in the Grand Canyon and the SOS signal didn't get out. That is why I changed to the InReach. I have not used the SOS feature of the InReach; however, if I do I will know whether or not the signal is received because I will get a reply message.

Last year, I was hiking the PCT when a woman activated her Spot. She attempted to bypass a snow field by walking across a field of scree. She started sliding and was afraid that if she moved she would slide off a cliff. She sat down and called for help. It was a little over an hour before a military helicopter arrived to pluck her off the scree field.

I think the issue with you not getting a response at all was due your location is a crevice rather than the Spot device itself. I wouldn't expect any other device to be any better. The terrain is the terrain. As far as an hour response, it would be the same for the InReach as the Spot - they both use the GEOS response center so once the SOS is received, the response is the same. Besides, an hour really isn't all that bad, but if you have cellular coverage, it's best just to use your phone rather than an InReach, Spot, or PLB. All GEOS really does is locate you and notify local emergency response authorities, adding time to the response. Save the satellite devices for the times where you have no phone, there is no cellular coverage, or when you're in such dire condition that pushing a button is all you can do.

[windlion]

Thanks to all the input!

Based on your comments, vendor online documentation, and on a longish Wikipedia article about emergency locator systems that I stumbled on (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emer...beacon_station), only the InReach two way capability does much for the shelter-in-place / walkout choice. However, PLB range and environment capabilites in the UHF band will always outstrip S-band systems in the same environment.

Getting back to the original question -- my inexperienced guess would be that even with a venomous snake or bug bite, walkout would be a better choice than sitting around any time the situation allows it? Situation dependent, but triggering the SOS button right away and wasting battery power might not be the best choice while I can keep moving.

PLB. Same system as aircraft and maritime rescue, one way on the standard 406 MHz emergency frequency. Pro: low freq capability to beat through clouds, rain, and tree canopy, higher power levels permitted in this band, satellites provide some location data by triangulation even without GPS. Con: functional one way limit (no receipt acknowlegment), high false alarm rate slows response if it cannot be verified. The center will be looking at the beacon registration for someone they can call 24/7 to confirm your planned hiking track.

SPOT. Satellite phone system, using same S band frequency range as ground based cellular phones. Pro: compatibility with commercial cellular allows user configured alerts and position updates to friends and family. Con: vendor only supports one way, more of a GPS-like clear sky system.

InReach. Also an S-band satellite phone system, but configured to allow text message exchange. Pro: two way exchange, better coordination options. Con: still more of a clear-sky system, price.

Thanks again for all the feedback. Still interested in more actual use experience in different locations.

[Another Kevin]

Getting back to the original question -- my inexperienced guess would be that even with a venomous snake or bug bite, walkout would be a better choice than sitting around any time the situation allows it? Situation dependent, but triggering the SOS button right away and wasting battery power might not be the best choice while I can keep moving.

Yeah. I'd generally consider lighting my PLB only if I or a member of my party were unable to travel. I was close to that point with a sprained knee, but decided that I could hobble out with an Ace bandage on it and painkillers in me. I was using a cane for a couple months afterward. The best rescue is self rescue.

"Shelter in place" is marvelous advice for eleven-year-old boy scouts, who are likely to be missed within the hour and be at most a few hundred yards from where they were last seen. It's marvelous advice for victims of traffic accidents - who are, of course right on the road - or plane crashes or shipwrecks, where a search will be initiated immediately. It's decent advice if you have a trustworthy signalling method and are incapacitated. But many people are indoctrinated with "stay put and wait for rescue" as children and never get beyond that to ideas like 'downhill goes to a stream, downstream goes to a town." That's practically guaranteed in the Eastern US, and here in the East, you're really unlikely to get cliffed out - at least any worse than having to circle a ledge looking for a break.

That frozen early indoctrination is how we get stories like Geraldine Largay or David Boomhower - staying put and waiting for rescue when nobody knew where they were.

I happen to think that all solo hikers should have at least been on, and ideally led, a few bushwhacks, to be confident in navigation skills. That way, losing a trail becomes, "oh, this hike has unexpectedly become a whack" rather than "oh $#!+, what do I do now?" And when you're solo, it's many times more important to make sure that you're adequately equipped - clothing and shelter for record-worst weather where you're going, for instance. "Gear to survive, not just to arrive."

And THEN you back it all up with a real PLB, and fire making tools, and a whistle, and at least one piece of brightly coloured clothing - because if it all goes pear-shaped, you need to be seen and heard.