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  1. #1
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    Default Which bear canisters are ok for Blood Mt? Smokies?

    I've looked and looked, and can't come up with anything specific...just that a bear resistant container is required.

    so that brings me to wonder

    Who defines Bear Resistant?
    does it need to be listed by IGBC? I can't find anyplace that says it does....
    would an Ursack fit the bill?
    Could I make my own cannister?

    Honestly, I'm more interested in getting something rodent and racoon resistant... even perhaps more for use here locally in Florida or elsewhere not in bear country...so I'm thinking something like a ratsack.
    but
    I figure if I buy something maybe I should try to get a lightweight canister in case I ever want to hike the smokeys or Blood in the spring....
    or just take my chances, keep it simple, and hope a rodent or coon doesn't climb down the line to my hanging bag....

  2. #2
    Wanna-be hiker trash Sarcasm the elf's Avatar
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    If I recall from the original order, blood mountain requires a commercially built, hard sided container during the time of year specified. Ursaks are not acceptable under the order.

    On a personal nite after a lifetime of hiking and camping, I bought a canister for the first time this year, a BV500, and have found it surprisingly convenient. With it I don't have to watch my food, hang my food, or take any real precautions beyond taking it out of my pack. Because I have a light setup to begin with it wasn't a huge inconvenience and I think I'm sticking with it.
    "This sucks and I love it."

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    Wanna-be hiker trash Sarcasm the elf's Avatar
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    Found it! Here's the actual USFS order:

    https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE...rdb5351875.pdf
    "This sucks and I love it."

  4. #4
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf View Post
    Found it! Here's the actual USFS order:

    https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE...rdb5351875.pdf
    The order expired in 2016. Was a new order listed!?
    blw2,
    Are you actually planning to hike in the tiny area during the brief period specified in the expired order?
    Or do you want a bear can for piece of mind?
    If the later, the BV 500 is recognized by IGBC and the folks on the west coast. In other words, you can use it in California, Grand Teton National Park and Rocky Mountain National Park. And the 5 mile stretch of the AT for a couple 3 months.
    Have fun.
    Wayne


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  5. #5
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Should have said "spend the night?"
    Wayne


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    Honestly I'm not sure my use and need...mostly just researching. Planning to probably try to hike that section either next summer or next spring break.... and yeah I know I could just camp outside of the area....
    and/or I may someday want to do some trails in the smokeys.

    Mostly though, my thinking is along the lines of what elf just confirmed. In many ways it seems like it could be just plain easier.... even on local camps where I'm only worried about small critters. And if I need to buy something for the rodents, maybe I might as well consider getting something more future proof....

    And thanks for posting that order. I couldn't find that in my searching. Funny how its written... I understand the intent, but I could make two, sell one it becomes "commercially made" then it's good to go.

  7. #7
    Registered User Suzzz's Avatar
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    I have a BV500 and I quite like it. I bought it for all the reasons mentioned above but mostly because it seemed like a big pain in the you know what to have to find an adequate tree, throw a rope and properly hang my food. And considering the weight difference between the bear canister and the bag/rope/carabiner combo, the weight penalty of the canister isn't that much more. I also like the fact that because my food is in a hard container, it doesn't get squashed by the other stuff in my backpack. So for me, it seemed like the perfect compromise.

  8. #8
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    ever hear any stories...or had issues yourself....with little critters chewing through a BV or similar? I've seen them chew right through 2x4's, wires, and other things....so I'd imagine they'd have no problem through the poly if they tried....

  9. #9
    Registered User FatMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    The order expired in 2016. Was a new order listed!?
    Although I have never seen the new order I have spoken with two different USFS Rangers who indicated to me that a new order is in effect. Neither could tell me a new expiration date. Also, GATC friends say the order remains in effect. I wish the Forest Service would get it posted on their website.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatMan View Post
    Although I have never seen the new order I have spoken with two different USFS Rangers who indicated to me that a new order is in effect. Neither could tell me a new expiration date. Also, GATC friends say the order remains in effect. I wish the Forest Service would get it posted on their website.
    261.51 Posting.
    Posting is accomplished by:
    (a) Placing a copy of the order imposing each prohibition in the offices of the Forest Supervisor and District Ranger, or equivalent officer who have jurisdiction over the lands affected by the order, and
    (b) Displaying each prohibition imposed by an order in such locations and manner as to reasonably bring the prohibition to the attention of the public.


    If its not dispkayed, its not posted, and doesnt exist.
    This is a requirement under 36 CFR
    The law must be followed

  11. #11
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Correct me if I'm wrong. It happens.
    I thought that the GSMNP had copied Glacier/Yellowstone and installed proper hanging hardware in the park? Are there still places that require a hard container?
    DIY bear can: It has to pass IGBC or the other test in California.
    Weight differential BV500 vs. hanging a bag: approximately 2 pounds. Food capacity of the BV500 is fixed. Hanging is variable.
    Wayne


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    As to the second part of the question regarding the Smoky Mountains, a canister is not needed. All campsites have a bear cable system.

    I would recommend using a carribener to keep you food bag attached when a bear tries to shake the cables. Usually I will hang my entire pack with a large heavy duty garbage bag turned upside down to keep out rain and rodents. Just poke a small hole in the bottom center of the garbage bag to pass through a short cord attached to the food bag or pack.

    Outside the park us the PCT method to hang.

  13. #13
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    They are hanging challenged.
    Wayne


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  14. #14
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    do you just not have a problem with rodents and coons when you hang?

  15. #15
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blw2 View Post
    do you just not have a problem with rodents and coons when you hang?
    Based on my experience with my bird feeders and 'coons in east Texas, 'coons can get to food in places you wouldn't believe.
    On the other hand, it isn't called "the PCT method of hanging" for no reason. When done correctly it apparently works.
    More research is in order. Let us know what the final answer is.
    Wayne



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  16. #16
    GSMNP 900 Miler HooKooDooKu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong. It happens.
    I thought that the GSMNP had copied Glacier/Yellowstone and installed proper hanging hardware in the park? Are there still places that require a hard container?
    Yes indeed, GSMNP has bear cables installed at every back country campsite. Technically, bear canisters are not approved for use in GSMNP... but that's because their rules specify bear cables and hanging food and don't address the use of canisters.

  17. #17

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    From the ATC website:

    "Bear canisters seasonally required for camping between Jarrard Gap and Neel Gap
    (unknown date - present) A new U.S. Forest Service rule requires approved bear-resistant storage containers for overnight camping on a 5-mile stretch of the A.T. in the Chattahoochee National Forest between Jarrard Gap and Neel Gap, between March 1 and June 1 each year. This stretch is located between points 26.7 and 31.7 miles north of the southern terminus of the A.T. at Springer Moutain, Georgia, and includes Woods Hole Shelter, Slaughter Creek Campsite, and Blood Mountain Shelter. “Bear canisters” should be used to store food, food containers, garbage and toiletries. For more information, call the Chattahoochee - Oconee National Forest at (770) 297-3000."8

  18. #18
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    From the ATC website:

    "Bear canisters seasonally required for camping between Jarrard Gap and Neel Gap
    (unknown date - present) A new U.S. Forest Service rule requires approved bear-resistant storage containers for overnight camping on a 5-mile stretch of the A.T. in the Chattahoochee National Forest between Jarrard Gap and Neel Gap, between March 1 and June 1 each year. This stretch is located between points 26.7 and 31.7 miles north of the southern terminus of the A.T. at Springer Moutain, Georgia, and includes Woods Hole Shelter, Slaughter Creek Campsite, and Blood Mountain Shelter. “Bear canisters” should be used to store food, food containers, garbage and toiletries. For more information, call the Chattahoochee - Oconee National Forest at (770) 297-3000."8
    Very poorly written.
    The canisters are only required for overnight camping. Walking through the 5 mile section does NOT require special food storage.
    Editorial Opinion:
    It has been stated on WhiteBlaze that the bear problem is due to car campers below the shelter leaving food and garbage out for the bears.
    Why didn't the Forest Service consider closing the road to the campground? The End.
    Wayne


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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    From the ATC website:

    "Bear canisters seasonally required for camping between Jarrard Gap and Neel Gap
    (unknown date - present) A new U.S. Forest Service rule requires approved bear-resistant storage containers for overnight camping on a 5-mile stretch of the A.T. in the Chattahoochee National Forest between Jarrard Gap and Neel Gap, between March 1 and June 1 each year. This stretch is located between points 26.7 and 31.7 miles north of the southern terminus of the A.T. at Springer Moutain, Georgia, and includes Woods Hole Shelter, Slaughter Creek Campsite, and Blood Mountain Shelter. “Bear canisters” should be used to store food, food containers, garbage and toiletries. For more information, call the Chattahoochee - Oconee National Forest at (770) 297-3000."8
    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    Very poorly written.
    The canisters are only required for overnight camping. Walking through the 5 mile section does NOT require special food storage.
    I don't understand how it is poorly written. The ATC site clearly says you need the canister for overnight camping in that area, it doesn't say you need it for hiking through.
    Last edited by gpburdelljr; 08-06-2017 at 09:58.

  20. #20
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    well one aspect that is poorly written, points to my original questions....
    who determines what is "bear resistant" enough?
    which canisters?
    does Ursack count?
    etc...
    The way it's written, I could argue that putting food only in an odor barrier bag in my tent would be good enough. It's bear resistant in that it's blocking the smell..... but I'm sure that's not the 'intent'

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