Selecting the right Bag

[zig-zag man]

I initially planned to purchase the Marmot Sawtooth 15* treated down-filled bag for $230 at 43 oz. It seemed like a good compromise considering cost vs weight. Now I'm second guessing my decision.

I spent some time this morning reading up on the effects of shivering on the human body. When your body temp starts dropping, the brain tells your muscles to essentially go into a spasm mode. This is its way of maintaining "homeostasis". In other words, keeping your body at the temperature that it needs to be to work right. I am a cold sleeper. If my son has turned the ac down to 70* and I wake up to take a wiz, I will start shivering. I don't like that. Shivering requires energy. 10 minutes of shivering burns as many calories as an hour's worth of exercise.

All of that being said, when I see something like the Teton Sports Trailhead synthetic-filled 20* bag for $55-$65, I wonder if that means I can crawl into that puppy, in my shorts and t-shirt (not accustomed to sleeping in insulated clothing), and expect to maintain a 98.6* atmosphere inside the bag whenever the ambient temperature is 20*? Or is the 20* rating on the bag the temperature at which, if the ambient temperature drops to 19*, I will die? There is a really big difference there, as I see it. Furthermore, if I'm lying there shivering my baguettes off, I may as well continue on with some night hiking, because I am certainly not going to be getting any rest.

So, given the marketing practices of the day, where everyone is willing to feed the consumer a line of poop, would it be safe to say that if you are a cold sleeper, as I am, to head NOBO from Springer in late March or early April, do I actually want to consider a 15* (or maybe even a 0*) sleeping bag? I thank you all ahead of time for your thoughts.

[garlic08]

Read up on the EN 13537 ratings. Here's one site. If your selected bag is labeled as test to EN ratings, you'll have some assurance of standardization, at least.

There are many other variables in sleeping outside, like your overall health, nutrition and hydration, wind velocity, ground temp. Tricks like sleeping with your drinking water heated up can help too. Read up on harsh weather camping, then try it out in the backyard or local park next winter.

An early April start may require a 15F bag. Mine did. But there was always the option of riding out the storms in town (and spending the money that I paid for the bag on motel rooms.)

[Venchka]

Similar discussion from a few days ago.
Spend nights on the ground this winter and find out what you need.
The bag you linked to: You could be dead at 30 degrees.
https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/sho...ecommendations
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hosh]

I initially planned to purchase the Marmot Sawtooth 15* treated down-filled bag for $230 at 43 oz. It seemed like a good compromise considering cost vs weight. Now I'm second guessing my decision.

I spent some time this morning reading up on the effects of shivering on the human body. When your body temp starts dropping, the brain tells your muscles to essentially go into a spasm mode. This is its way of maintaining "homeostasis". In other words, keeping your body at the temperature that it needs to be to work right. I am a cold sleeper. If my son has turned the ac down to 70* and I wake up to take a wiz, I will start shivering. I don't like that. Shivering requires energy. 10 minutes of shivering burns as many calories as an hour's worth of exercise.

All of that being said, when I see something like the Teton Sports Trailhead synthetic-filled 20* bag for $55-$65, I wonder if that means I can crawl into that puppy, in my shorts and t-shirt (not accustomed to sleeping in insulated clothing), and expect to maintain a 98.6* atmosphere inside the bag whenever the ambient temperature is 20*? Or is the 20* rating on the bag the temperature at which, if the ambient temperature drops to 19*, I will die? There is a really big difference there, as I see it. Furthermore, if I'm lying there shivering my baguettes off, I may as well continue on with some night hiking, because I am certainly not going to be getting any rest.

So, given the marketing practices of the day, where everyone is willing to feed the consumer a line of poop, would it be safe to say that if you are a cold sleeper, as I am, to head NOBO from Springer in late March or early April, do I actually want to consider a 15* (or maybe even a 0*) sleeping bag? I thank you all ahead of time for your thoughts.

If you go to the extreme on all your purchases, you're likely over budget, over weight. There are lots of techniques to deal with cold temperatures. Head wear, base/mid layers, hot water bottles, fatty foods, exercises before bed, ground insulation, etc. Many of us have worn everything we carried to stay warm on a night or 2 that exceed our window of temperature ranges. It's not a near death experience, nor should you pack your fears to avoid.
You do need to figure out your own internal thermometer, so some experience goes a long way.

[zig-zag man]

[QUOTE=Hosh;2162690]If you go to the extreme on all your purchases, you're likely over budget, over weight. There are lots of techniques to deal with cold temperatures. Head wear, base/mid layers, hot water bottles, fatty foods, exercises before bed, ground insulation, etc. Many of us have worn everything we carried to stay warm on a night or 2 that exceed our window of temperature ranges. It's not a near death experience, nor should you pack your fears to avoid.
You do need to figure out your own internal thermometer, so some experience goes a long way.[

Got it. Thanks.

[DownEaster]

EN testing assumes an "average" young man wearing a beanie and long underwear. You're definitely on the cold side of average, so I suggest you look at the women's "comfort" rating part of the EN temperature figures instead. You'll get information better suited to you with that baseline.

Layering works for sleeping systems as well as it works for clothing. You can get a roll of Reflectix and cut a length the same as your inflatable pad. Slip this under the inflatable and you'll keep most of the body heat you use to warm up the inflatable pad rather than losing it to the ground. You've already listed a silk liner for your sleeping bag, but have you considered an outer liner as well? I've got a Survive Outdoors Longer Escape Bivvy to go on the outside of my sleeping bag when needed (likely in the GSMNP shelters when I'm not allowed to use my tent). This snug-fitting and inexpensive bivvy works for me, but there's also the 2Go Systems V2 Trifecta bivvy if you need more room, with "seconds" currently available for $10 off (they goofed and used heavier seam tape). Use the layers you need for the current conditions.

[Ethesis]

Similar discussion from a few days ago.
Spend nights on the ground this winter and find out what you need.
The bag you linked to: You could be dead at 30 degrees.
https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/sho...ecommendations
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have been looking at proposed sticky topics:

1. There is no best shoe --it really does depend on your feet.

2. How warm is that bag/quilt /- and what ratings mean, what you will really need.

3. How often is resupply possible and why you shouldn't carry extra food.

4. Yes. You need to filter or purify your water.

5. All about hiking poles and your knees.

6. 36 lbs is not ultralight. All about through hiking, weight and likelihood of injury and finishing.

7. No. You can't just kick a cat hole in the side of the hill in many places. You need a trowel.

8. Etc.

But the one on bags and ratings and such seems neded here.

Thanks for linking that.

[Venchka]

The word BEST is overworked. There is no universal best anything.
Any piece of hiking gear that comes in contact with the users body must suit that person. That person alone can judge the suitability for themselves. Food included here.
Shelter isn't far behind in terms of personal preference.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ethesis]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.red...e_my_sleeping/

for a good discussion about how warm bags really are or are not and how to calculate it.

[Hosh]

The word BEST is overworked. There is no universal best anything.
Any piece of hiking gear that comes in contact with the users body must suit that person. That person alone can judge the suitability for themselves. Food included here.
Shelter isn't far behind in terms of personal preference.
Wayne




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

True, true and this is why we all have multiple gear closets, totes and plastic bags full of "very wrong or not quite right" gear. There is no "perfect" anything, just the realities of budgets.

[Maineiac64]

I have been looking at proposed sticky topics:

1. There is no best shoe --it really does depend on your feet.

2. How warm is that bag/quilt /- and what ratings mean, what you will really need.

3. How often is resupply possible and why you shouldn't carry extra food.

4. Yes. You need to filter or purify your water.

5. All about hiking poles and your knees.

6. 36 lbs is not ultralight. All about through hiking, weight and likelihood of injury and finishing.

7. No. You can't just kick a cat hole in the side of the hill in many places. You need a trowel.

8. Etc.

But the one on bags and ratings and such seems neded here.

Thanks for linking that.

You forgot, how big a pack will I need?

[swjohnsey]

I initially planned to purchase the Marmot Sawtooth 15* treated down-filled bag for $230 at 43 oz. It seemed like a good compromise considering cost vs weight. Now I'm second guessing my decision.

I spent some time this morning reading up on the effects of shivering on the human body. When your body temp starts dropping, the brain tells your muscles to essentially go into a spasm mode. This is its way of maintaining "homeostasis". In other words, keeping your body at the temperature that it needs to be to work right. I am a cold sleeper. If my son has turned the ac down to 70* and I wake up to take a wiz, I will start shivering. I don't like that. Shivering requires energy. 10 minutes of shivering burns as many calories as an hour's worth of exercise.

All of that being said, when I see something like the Teton Sports Trailhead synthetic-filled 20* bag for $55-$65, I wonder if that means I can crawl into that puppy, in my shorts and t-shirt (not accustomed to sleeping in insulated clothing), and expect to maintain a 98.6* atmosphere inside the bag whenever the ambient temperature is 20*? Or is the 20* rating on the bag the temperature at which, if the ambient temperature drops to 19*, I will die? There is a really big difference there, as I see it. Furthermore, if I'm lying there shivering my baguettes off, I may as well continue on with some night hiking, because I am certainly not going to be getting any rest.

So, given the marketing practices of the day, where everyone is willing to feed the consumer a line of poop, would it be safe to say that if you are a cold sleeper, as I am, to head NOBO from Springer in late March or early April, do I actually want to consider a 15* (or maybe even a 0*) sleeping bag? I thank you all ahead of time for your thoughts.

Life is a compromise. Are you willing to spend a couple of cold night not to carry an extra two pounds?

[Ethesis]

You forgot, how big a pack will I need?

yeah. That is definitely one for the list.